What CNC Machine Should Al Drake Tell His Boss To Buy?

[jon_banquer]

As posted to Practically Worthless Machinist by Al Drake:

"For now I am using some Prototrak mills and lathe. Plans for next year is to go with something with some brute force. I m not sure yet what I want to recommend so for now this serves my learning curve and have a simple approach. The mills are 3 axis and have been loading the G-code file. I haven't been able to easily find a way to output a cam file that shows something other than TXT extension but the way I'm doing it now needs no improvement as far as I can tell. I had to make adjustments to the post processor to reflect the reality of low RPM and feed. As far as work holding I have several 6" Kurts but many times I mount a plate and use pins and clamps. Sometimes sine plates and indexing heads. I have two Prototrak mills, one Prototrak lathe and some manual machines and a surface grinder so I have all I need. I'm a one man operation with all the time I need to get the job done with no production. No time clock or time sheet. No pressure and all the free coffee you can drink. Ok, so now I'm bragging."

[AlDrake]

Post by jon_banquer
"For now I am using some Prototrak mills and lathe. Plans for next year is to go with something with some brute force. I m not sure yet what I want to recommend so for now this serves my learning curve and have a simple approach. The mills are 3 axis and have been loading the G-code file. I haven't been able to easily find a way to output a cam file that shows something other than TXT extension but the way I'm doing it now needs no improvement as far as I can tell. I had to make adjustments to the post processor to reflect the reality of low RPM and feed. As far as work holding I have several 6" Kurts but many times I mount a plate and use pins and clamps. Sometimes sine plates and indexing heads. I have two Prototrak mills, one Prototrak lathe and some manual machines and a surface grinder so I have all I need. I'm a one man operation with all the time I need to get the job done with no production. No time clock or time sheet. No pressure and all the free coffee you can drink. Ok

, so now I'm bragging."
Well jon, what do YOU think? I need some input from an expert.

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[jon_banquer]

Post by AlDrake
Well jon, what do YOU think? I need some input from an expert.

You push the shit out of building your SolidCAM skills right now using their extensive free tutorials and free webinars that can be found on their website.

You do everything you can NOT to get a 3 axis Haas VMC and push for a real multi-axis CNC machine like a Mori-Seiki, Hermle, etc. Building multi-axis programming skills puts your in very high demand if something happens at your current job and it's definitely the very near future for most CNC machine shops.

You don't presume I'm a expert and you look and talk with small, high tech shops that will back up what I'm telling you if they are on the cutting edge. Most started with Haas machines and realized they needed better to do the kind of work they could really make good money on.

[AlDrake]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by AlDrake
Well jon, what do YOU think? I need some input from an expert.

You push the shit out of building your SolidCAM skills right now using their extensive free tutorials and free webinars that can be found on their website.
You do everything you can NOT to get a 3 axis Haas VMC and push for a real multi-axis CNC machine like a Mori-Seiki, Hermle, etc. Building multi-axis programming skills puts your in very high demand if something happens at your current job and it's definitely the very near future for most CNC machine shops.
You don't presume I'm a expert and you look and talk with small, high tech shops that will back up what I'm telling you if they are on the cutting edge. Most started with Haas machines and realized they needed better to do the kind of work they could really make good money on.

To begin with this is not a CNC shop.I do no production so they don't
want to drop a bundle on something that's overkill. The way it is now
and always has been here is the shop work doesn't get charged the way
machine time does in real machine shops. If it takes me a week to do a
job that should take a day in the real world no one cares. That's why
they haven't been in a hurry to buy a new machine. It took me a few
years to talk them into getting CAM software. I bought BCC and and they
decided to go with SolidCAM. They reimbursed be and let me keep it and
gave me a seat on SolidWorks/SolidCAM and installed it on my ASUS G73Sw.

This shop makes no money on what I machine. They make it on the
product line. Most parts are farmed out and assembled in house.

I'm an R&D machinist in a one man shop. What I learn helps me do what
I have to do a lot easier.

They have been talking about a Hurco. I wouldn't mind getting a HASS
which isn't out of the question.



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[Garlicdude]

Post by AlDrake
They have been talking about a Hurco. I wouldn't mind getting a HASS
which isn't out of the question.

I've had good luck as other have on Impractical Machinist with my Sharp
Mini Mill.

Best,
Steve

[Al Drake]

Post by Garlicdude

Post by AlDrake
They have been talking about a Hurco. I wouldn't mind getting a HASS
which isn't out of the question.

I've had good luck as other have on Impractical Machinist with my Sharp
Mini Mill.
Best,
Steve

Thanks Steve. I'll keep that in mind and see how much they get for one
vs other options.

[Al Drake]

Post by Garlicdude

Post by AlDrake
They have been talking about a Hurco. I wouldn't mind getting a HASS
which isn't out of the question.

I've had good luck as other have on Impractical Machinist with my Sharp
Mini Mill.
Best,
Steve

After some time searching they also seem to be able to do the job. In
the end I know how this will play out. Someone at the top will decide.
Someone who knows nothing but what some salesman tells him. That's why
they went with the ProtoTrak mills and lathes. Their salesman in this
area is a nice guy. Good old Kunzie.

[jon_banquer]

Post by AlDrake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by AlDrake
Well jon, what do YOU think? I need some input from an expert.

You push the shit out of building your SolidCAM skills right now using their extensive free tutorials and free webinars that can be found on their website.
You do everything you can NOT to get a 3 axis Haas VMC and push for a real multi-axis CNC machine like a Mori-Seiki, Hermle, etc. Building multi-axis programming skills puts your in very high demand if something happens at your current job and it's definitely the very near future for most CNC machine shops.
You don't presume I'm a expert and you look and talk with small, high tech shops that will back up what I'm telling you if they are on the cutting edge. Most started with Haas machines and realized they needed better to do the kind of work they could really make good money on.

To begin with this is not a CNC shop.I do no production so they don't
want to drop a bundle on something that's overkill. The way it is now
and always has been here is the shop work doesn't get charged the way
machine time does in real machine shops. If it takes me a week to do a
job that should take a day in the real world no one cares. That's why
they haven't been in a hurry to buy a new machine. It took me a few
years to talk them into getting CAM software. I bought BCC and and they
decided to go with SolidCAM. They reimbursed be and let me keep it and
gave me a seat on SolidWorks/SolidCAM and installed it on my ASUS G73Sw.
This shop makes no money on what I machine. They make it on the
product line. Most parts are farmed out and assembled in house.
I'm an R&D machinist in a one man shop. What I learn helps me do what
I have to do a lot easier.
They have been talking about a Hurco. I wouldn't mind getting a HASS
which isn't out of the question.

I'm well aware that you don't do production. My advice to you takes this into account.

Hurco is an interesting alternative.

I would not get a Haas based on what my clients and those I have worked for have experienced.

My advice remains the same... focus on 4 and 5 axis machining to reduce setups. It's your ticket to job security.

[Al Drake]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by AlDrake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by AlDrake
Well jon, what do YOU think? I need some input from an expert.

You push the shit out of building your SolidCAM skills right now using their extensive free tutorials and free webinars that can be found on their website.
You do everything you can NOT to get a 3 axis Haas VMC and push for a real multi-axis CNC machine like a Mori-Seiki, Hermle, etc. Building multi-axis programming skills puts your in very high demand if something happens at your current job and it's definitely the very near future for most CNC machine shops.
You don't presume I'm a expert and you look and talk with small, high tech shops that will back up what I'm telling you if they are on the cutting edge. Most started with Haas machines and realized they needed better to do the kind of work they could really make good money on.

To begin with this is not a CNC shop.I do no production so they don't
want to drop a bundle on something that's overkill. The way it is now
and always has been here is the shop work doesn't get charged the way
machine time does in real machine shops. If it takes me a week to do a
job that should take a day in the real world no one cares. That's why
they haven't been in a hurry to buy a new machine. It took me a few
years to talk them into getting CAM software. I bought BCC and and they
decided to go with SolidCAM. They reimbursed be and let me keep it and
gave me a seat on SolidWorks/SolidCAM and installed it on my ASUS G73Sw.
This shop makes no money on what I machine. They make it on the
product line. Most parts are farmed out and assembled in house.
I'm an R&D machinist in a one man shop. What I learn helps me do what
I have to do a lot easier.
They have been talking about a Hurco. I wouldn't mind getting a HASS
which isn't out of the question.

I'm well aware that you don't do production. My advice to you takes this into account.
Hurco is an interesting alternative.
I would not get a Haas based on what my clients and those I have worked for have experienced.
My advice remains the same... focus on 4 and 5 axis machining to reduce setups. It's your ticket to job security.

More and more I think this place may be the last place I work. So many
others have been there for 20-25 years. I've never seen anyone get fired
or quit. Everyone tells me they get top dollar.

I guess it's a matter of how much a 4 or 5 axis mill will end up
costing including tooling. I was shocked to see how much it cost for the
CAD/CAM software.

What do you suggest for a G-Code editor?

[jon_banquer]

Post by Al Drake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by AlDrake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by AlDrake
Well jon, what do YOU think? I need some input from an expert.

You push the shit out of building your SolidCAM skills right now using their extensive free tutorials and free webinars that can be found on their website.
You do everything you can NOT to get a 3 axis Haas VMC and push for a real multi-axis CNC machine like a Mori-Seiki, Hermle, etc. Building multi-axis programming skills puts your in very high demand if something happens at your current job and it's definitely the very near future for most CNC machine shops.
You don't presume I'm a expert and you look and talk with small, high tech shops that will back up what I'm telling you if they are on the cutting edge. Most started with Haas machines and realized they needed better to do the kind of work they could really make good money on.

To begin with this is not a CNC shop.I do no production so they don't
want to drop a bundle on something that's overkill. The way it is now
and always has been here is the shop work doesn't get charged the way
machine time does in real machine shops. If it takes me a week to do a
job that should take a day in the real world no one cares. That's why
they haven't been in a hurry to buy a new machine. It took me a few
years to talk them into getting CAM software. I bought BCC and and they
decided to go with SolidCAM. They reimbursed be and let me keep it and
gave me a seat on SolidWorks/SolidCAM and installed it on my ASUS G73Sw.
This shop makes no money on what I machine. They make it on the
product line. Most parts are farmed out and assembled in house.
I'm an R&D machinist in a one man shop. What I learn helps me do what
I have to do a lot easier.
They have been talking about a Hurco. I wouldn't mind getting a HASS
which isn't out of the question.

I'm well aware that you don't do production. My advice to you takes this into account.
Hurco is an interesting alternative.
I would not get a Haas based on what my clients and those I have worked for have experienced.
My advice remains the same... focus on 4 and 5 axis machining to reduce setups. It's your ticket to job security.

More and more I think this place may be the last place I work. So many
others have been there for 20-25 years. I've never seen anyone get fired
or quit. Everyone tells me they get top dollar.
I guess it's a matter of how much a 4 or 5 axis mill will end up
costing including tooling. I was shocked to see how much it cost for the
CAD/CAM software.
What do you suggest for a G-Code editor?

NC Plot. Owner Scott Martinez is a pleasure to deal with. I purchased a copy many years ago and I have no complaints.

[vinny]

"jon_banquer" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f1e5fb55-9a34-40e7-9e1e-***@googlegroups.com...
On Friday, October 24, 2014 4:53:17 PM UTC-7, Al Drake wrote:


NC Plot. Owner Scott Martinez is a pleasure to deal with. I purchased a copy
many years ago and I have no complaints.


The guys who make notepad.exe are pretty good guys too.

[jon_banquer]

Post by jon_banquer
NC Plot. Owner Scott Martinez is a pleasure to deal with. I purchased a copy
many years ago and I have no complaints.
The guys who make notepad.exe are pretty good guys too.

Tell us how well Notepad works well as a backplotter. Post a screenshot.

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
NC Plot. Owner Scott Martinez is a pleasure to deal with. I purchased a copy
many years ago and I have no complaints.
The guys who make notepad.exe are pretty good guys too.

Tell us how well Notepad works well as a backplotter. Post a screenshot.

Why would I want to? And if I did I sure as hell wouldnt buy some cheesey
backplotter when theres a shitload of them on the net for free?

[Al Drake]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Al Drake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by AlDrake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by AlDrake
Well jon, what do YOU think? I need some input from an expert.

You push the shit out of building your SolidCAM skills right now using their extensive free tutorials and free webinars that can be found on their website.
You do everything you can NOT to get a 3 axis Haas VMC and push for a real multi-axis CNC machine like a Mori-Seiki, Hermle, etc. Building multi-axis programming skills puts your in very high demand if something happens at your current job and it's definitely the very near future for most CNC machine shops.
You don't presume I'm a expert and you look and talk with small, high tech shops that will back up what I'm telling you if they are on the cutting edge. Most started with Haas machines and realized they needed better to do the kind of work they could really make good money on.

To begin with this is not a CNC shop.I do no production so they don't
want to drop a bundle on something that's overkill. The way it is now
and always has been here is the shop work doesn't get charged the way
machine time does in real machine shops. If it takes me a week to do a
job that should take a day in the real world no one cares. That's why
they haven't been in a hurry to buy a new machine. It took me a few
years to talk them into getting CAM software. I bought BCC and and they
decided to go with SolidCAM. They reimbursed be and let me keep it and
gave me a seat on SolidWorks/SolidCAM and installed it on my ASUS G73Sw.
This shop makes no money on what I machine. They make it on the
product line. Most parts are farmed out and assembled in house.
I'm an R&D machinist in a one man shop. What I learn helps me do what
I have to do a lot easier.
They have been talking about a Hurco. I wouldn't mind getting a HASS
which isn't out of the question.

I'm well aware that you don't do production. My advice to you takes this into account.
Hurco is an interesting alternative.
I would not get a Haas based on what my clients and those I have worked for have experienced.
My advice remains the same... focus on 4 and 5 axis machining to reduce setups. It's your ticket to job security.

More and more I think this place may be the last place I work. So many
others have been there for 20-25 years. I've never seen anyone get fired
or quit. Everyone tells me they get top dollar.
I guess it's a matter of how much a 4 or 5 axis mill will end up
costing including tooling. I was shocked to see how much it cost for the
CAD/CAM software.
What do you suggest for a G-Code editor?

NC Plot. Owner Scott Martinez is a pleasure to deal with. I purchased a copy many years ago and I have no complaints.

Seems like a nice app although the price is a little steep and I
wonder if I'll really need it. I didn't need to read the manual to get
started, just made sure the file had the .NC extension. So far using
G-code on the mill I'm using it has a built in editor and with a
keyboard attached I've had no problem changing whatever is needed.
Can you sell this to me by pointing out what real use I'll find?

I have a workstation in the shop so I don't have to go far. No real
need for RS232. I can jump back and forth to CAD/CAM in short time.

Thanks.

[jon_banquer]

Post by Al Drake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Al Drake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by AlDrake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by AlDrake
Well jon, what do YOU think? I need some input from an expert.

You push the shit out of building your SolidCAM skills right now using their extensive free tutorials and free webinars that can be found on their website.
You do everything you can NOT to get a 3 axis Haas VMC and push for a real multi-axis CNC machine like a Mori-Seiki, Hermle, etc. Building multi-axis programming skills puts your in very high demand if something happens at your current job and it's definitely the very near future for most CNC machine shops.
You don't presume I'm a expert and you look and talk with small, high tech shops that will back up what I'm telling you if they are on the cutting edge. Most started with Haas machines and realized they needed better to do the kind of work they could really make good money on.

To begin with this is not a CNC shop.I do no production so they don't
want to drop a bundle on something that's overkill. The way it is now
and always has been here is the shop work doesn't get charged the way
machine time does in real machine shops. If it takes me a week to do a
job that should take a day in the real world no one cares. That's why
they haven't been in a hurry to buy a new machine. It took me a few
years to talk them into getting CAM software. I bought BCC and and they
decided to go with SolidCAM. They reimbursed be and let me keep it and
gave me a seat on SolidWorks/SolidCAM and installed it on my ASUS G73Sw.
This shop makes no money on what I machine. They make it on the
product line. Most parts are farmed out and assembled in house.
I'm an R&D machinist in a one man shop. What I learn helps me do what
I have to do a lot easier.
They have been talking about a Hurco. I wouldn't mind getting a HASS
which isn't out of the question.

I'm well aware that you don't do production. My advice to you takes this into account.
Hurco is an interesting alternative.
I would not get a Haas based on what my clients and those I have worked for have experienced.
My advice remains the same... focus on 4 and 5 axis machining to reduce setups. It's your ticket to job security.

More and more I think this place may be the last place I work. So many
others have been there for 20-25 years. I've never seen anyone get fired
or quit. Everyone tells me they get top dollar.
I guess it's a matter of how much a 4 or 5 axis mill will end up
costing including tooling. I was shocked to see how much it cost for the
CAD/CAM software.
What do you suggest for a G-Code editor?

NC Plot. Owner Scott Martinez is a pleasure to deal with. I purchased a copy many years ago and I have no complaints.

Seems like a nice app although the price is a little steep and I
wonder if I'll really need it. I didn't need to read the manual to get
started, just made sure the file had the .NC extension. So far using
G-code on the mill I'm using it has a built in editor and with a
keyboard attached I've had no problem changing whatever is needed.
Can you sell this to me by pointing out what real use I'll find?
I have a workstation in the shop so I don't have to go far. No real
need for RS232. I can jump back and forth to CAD/CAM in short time.
Thanks.

Every machinist, CADCAM programmer, client or shop I've ever worked for that I've shown it to has purchased it.

I would suggest you ask about it on Practically Worthless machinist as many who use it would not wish to be without it and will say so.

I don't feel $300 is a steep price to pay for it.

It's the best backplotter I've ever used which is a function I can't live without.

I will not try any further to "sell it to you".

[AlDrake]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Al Drake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Al Drake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by AlDrake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by AlDrake
Well jon, what do YOU think? I need some input from an expert.

You push the shit out of building your SolidCAM skills right now using their extensive free tutorials and free webinars that can be found on their website.
You do everything you can NOT to get a 3 axis Haas VMC and push for a real multi-axis CNC machine like a Mori-Seiki, Hermle, etc. Building multi-axis programming skills puts your in very high demand if something happens at your current job and it's definitely the very near future for most CNC machine shops.
You don't presume I'm a expert and you look and talk with small, high tech shops that will back up what I'm telling you if they are on the cutting edge. Most started with Haas machines and realized they needed better to do the kind of work they could really make good money on.

To begin with this is not a CNC shop.I do no production so they don't
want to drop a bundle on something that's overkill. The way it is now
and always has been here is the shop work doesn't get charged the way
machine time does in real machine shops. If it takes me a week to do a
job that should take a day in the real world no one cares. That's why
they haven't been in a hurry to buy a new machine. It took me a few
years to talk them into getting CAM software. I bought BCC and and they
decided to go with SolidCAM. They reimbursed be and let me keep it and
gave me a seat on SolidWorks/SolidCAM and installed it on my ASUS G73Sw.
This shop makes no money on what I machine. They make it on the
product line. Most parts are farmed out and assembled in house.
I'm an R&D machinist in a one man shop. What I learn helps me do what
I have to do a lot easier.
They have been talking about a Hurco. I wouldn't mind getting a HASS
which isn't out of the question.

I'm well aware that you don't do production. My advice to you takes this into account.
Hurco is an interesting alternative.
I would not get a Haas based on what my clients and those I have worked for have experienced.
My advice remains the same... focus on 4 and 5 axis machining to reduce setups. It's your ticket to job security.

More and more I think this place may be the last place I work. So many
others have been there for 20-25 years. I've never seen anyone get fired
or quit. Everyone tells me they get top dollar.
I guess it's a matter of how much a 4 or 5 axis mill will end up
costing including tooling. I was shocked to see how much it cost for the
CAD/CAM software.
What do you suggest for a G-Code editor?

NC Plot. Owner Scott Martinez is a pleasure to deal with. I purchased a copy many years ago and I have no complaints.

Seems like a nice app although the price is a little steep and I
wonder if I'll really need it. I didn't need to read the manual to get
started, just made sure the file had the .NC extension. So far using
G-code on the mill I'm using it has a built in editor and with a
keyboard attached I've had no problem changing whatever is needed.
Can you sell this to me by pointing out what real use I'll find?
I have a workstation in the shop so I don't have to go far. No real
need for RS232. I can jump back and forth to CAD/CAM in short time.
Thanks.

Every machinist, CADCAM programmer, client or shop I've ever worked for that I've shown it to has purchased it.
I would suggest you ask about it on Practically Worthless machinist as many who use it would not wish to be without it and will say so.
I don't feel $300 is a steep price to pay for it.
It's the best backplotter I've ever used which is a function I can't live without.
I will not try any further to "sell it to you".

I'll take your word for it and install a trial version at the shop. I
can't really try it at home as my Laptop install is limited and won't
generate G-Code. One of the restriction for some reason. I guess it
would enable dual use. I can probably sell them on the purchase if I
really need it using the machines I have now. So far I've been able to
use the built in editor on the SMX.



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---

[F. George McDuffee]

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 13:20:12 -0400, AlDrake
<***@Spamex.com> wrote:
<big snip>

Post by AlDrake
I can probably sell them on the purchase if I
really need it using the machines I have now. So far I've been able to
use the built in editor on the SMX.

=============
Much easier sell after the big crash that costs thousands to
repair and delays production for weeks waiting for spare
parts to arrive.

[Al Drake]

Post by F. George McDuffee
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 13:20:12 -0400, AlDrake
<big snip>

Post by AlDrake
I can probably sell them on the purchase if I
really need it using the machines I have now. So far I've been able to
use the built in editor on the SMX.

=============
Much easier sell after the big crash that costs thousands to
repair and delays production for weeks waiting for spare
parts to arrive.

Don't get me started. These guys are clueless about anything Machine
Shop, believe me. Usually they are good about buying me just about
anything I tell them I need as long as I start the conversation with
something golfish. I'm still trying to figure out how much of a need I
have for this editor right now, before I get a real CNC.

[F. George McDuffee]

On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 03:25:53 -0400, Al Drake

Post by Al Drake

Post by F. George McDuffee
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 13:20:12 -0400, AlDrake
<big snip>

Post by AlDrake
I can probably sell them on the purchase if I
really need it using the machines I have now. So far I've been able to
use the built in editor on the SMX.

=============
Much easier sell after the big crash that costs thousands to
repair and delays production for weeks waiting for spare
parts to arrive.

Don't get me started. These guys are clueless about anything Machine
Shop, believe me. Usually they are good about buying me just about
anything I tell them I need as long as I start the conversation with
something golfish. I'm still trying to figure out how much of a need I
have for this editor right now, before I get a real CNC.

==========================

Been there, done that, although not with CNC.

You might try downloading some of the limited life
try-before-you-buy demos and freeware emulators for a show &
tell for the owners. Most of these seem to have pretty good
editors built in.

It would be helpful if you could describe your typical and
most fiddly jobs. Also if this is for your current
requirements or for possible future extension.

The prospective machine tool/controller suppliers may have
"free" emulator software for their products, and these may
include an editor. These also can make a good "show and
tell."

I did a quick google search and these URLs may be helpful.
http://tinyurl.com/qhyqrdc
http://tinyurl.com/madn7rc
http://tinyurl.com/khg8zte
many more emulators/backplotters available

CNC editors which may include drip feed capability
http://tinyurl.com/3k9wfx3
http://tinyurl.com/m48v3ca
http://tinyurl.com/o8e64t5

For those of us not familiar with Prototrak
http://tinyurl.com/md9j6ot
looks like you can download their software which seems to
include an editor
http://tinyurl.com/nsf62uz
off-line
http://tinyurl.com/o5bdxbq
videos
http://tinyurl.com/oayzpok
http://tinyurl.com/kx6tr9v

FWIW: Al asked for information, not a ration of s***.

[Al Drake]

Post by F. George McDuffee
On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 03:25:53 -0400, Al Drake

Post by Al Drake

Post by F. George McDuffee
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 13:20:12 -0400, AlDrake
<big snip>

Post by AlDrake
I can probably sell them on the purchase if I
really need it using the machines I have now. So far I've been able to
use the built in editor on the SMX.

=============
Much easier sell after the big crash that costs thousands to
repair and delays production for weeks waiting for spare
parts to arrive.

Don't get me started. These guys are clueless about anything Machine
Shop, believe me. Usually they are good about buying me just about
anything I tell them I need as long as I start the conversation with
something golfish. I'm still trying to figure out how much of a need I
have for this editor right now, before I get a real CNC.

==========================
Been there, done that, although not with CNC.
You might try downloading some of the limited life
try-before-you-buy demos and freeware emulators for a show &
tell for the owners. Most of these seem to have pretty good
editors built in.
It would be helpful if you could describe your typical and
most fiddly jobs. Also if this is for your current
requirements or for possible future extension.
The prospective machine tool/controller suppliers may have
"free" emulator software for their products, and these may
include an editor. These also can make a good "show and
tell."
I did a quick google search and these URLs may be helpful.
http://tinyurl.com/qhyqrdc
http://tinyurl.com/madn7rc
http://tinyurl.com/khg8zte
many more emulators/backplotters available
CNC editors which may include drip feed capability
http://tinyurl.com/3k9wfx3
http://tinyurl.com/m48v3ca
http://tinyurl.com/o8e64t5
For those of us not familiar with Prototrak
http://tinyurl.com/md9j6ot
looks like you can download their software which seems to
include an editor
http://tinyurl.com/nsf62uz
off-line
http://tinyurl.com/o5bdxbq
videos
http://tinyurl.com/oayzpok
http://tinyurl.com/kx6tr9v
FWIW: Al asked for information, not a ration of s***.

Thanks George. All those look like something I will be spending some
time going over. I've been to a number of PrototraK shows and seen their
machines and SW. I have a new SMX and LMX now and they're nice although
the mill I have now really needs tool holder upgrading. The R8 and draw
power drawbar is problematic. I'll spend time serious time tonight going
over what you provided.

Thanks.

[vinny]

The R8 and draw

Post by Al Drake
power drawbar is problematic.

replace the bellville washers. Or prolly just clean them.
They wear out annually.
The coolant smoke from drilling goes into the head and covers those washers,
making the whole area sticky. As the washers wear out there's not enough
spring pressure anymore.
The washers are super cheap and can be bought from any place you buy screws.
Just make sure they are stainless.

Last place I worked, they found if they flipped a couple the wrong way,
added an extra 3 washers, the head had the correct springing going on. Not a
perfect design, all three did that. Wasnt a big deal, simple fix.
Then they added glass scales, from that point on they held tenths all day
long.
course, they are still cheesey, nothing I would run anymore.

Here's the usual step ladder for a shithole...

mills: protraks, then haas, then makino, then some 5 axis stuff In that
order.
software: boobcam, then mastercam, then high end solids cam in that order.
cad: solidworks. world standard at the moment.
editors and code sims: get one right out of voc tec, then after 2 weeks
throw it in the garbage.

seriously, wtf are you doing?
Maybe you need a cheap fanuc drill mate. the fastest toolchanger on earth,
and a small footprint.
Or do you need the openess of a protrak to put big plates on the machines?
Or do you want coverage so you can hammer the coolant?
Do you hire people, making the choice something everyone has, or are you
guys lifers there, making the better quality a better choice?
Are you growing or stagnent, if growing you need a ladder plan for the
equipment, if not, buy the machine for its looks.
Then there's skill, if your shop has none, get a haas. The most common
machine on the net, in forums etc...
If it has skill, get a makino or bosto, awesome quality.
And what else do you have? It effects the decision because of trying to get
parts, training, etc...

do you need a 5 axis. my guess is no.

[F. George McDuffee]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 03:20:58 -0400, Al Drake
<***@Spamex.Com> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Al Drake
The R8 and draw
power drawbar is problematic.

==================
What sort of problems are you having exactly? Does this
set-up use the split R8 collet or are you using the R8 end
mill adapter with the Weldon set-screw? Are you doing
manual tool changes? Is the tooling pre-set?

For R8 Weldon example [and pretty good price] see
http://tinyurl.com/naurwgg

About collets v holders
http://tinyurl.com/pdx7pos

a spicy meatball but take a look at
http://tinyurl.com/m6mutcn
http://tinyurl.com/oovgyxq
for some ideas

Stainless Belleville
http://tinyurl.com/pt4yhqk

[F. George McDuffee]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:01:32 -0500, F. George McDuffee

Post by F. George McDuffee
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 03:20:58 -0400, Al Drake
<snip>

Post by Al Drake
The R8 and draw
power drawbar is problematic.

==================
What sort of problems are you having exactly? Does this
set-up use the split R8 collet or are you using the R8 end
mill adapter with the Weldon set-screw? Are you doing
manual tool changes? Is the tooling pre-set?
For R8 Weldon example [and pretty good price] see
http://tinyurl.com/naurwgg
About collets v holders
http://tinyurl.com/pdx7pos
a spicy meatball but take a look at
http://tinyurl.com/m6mutcn
http://tinyurl.com/oovgyxq
for some ideas
Stainless Belleville
http://tinyurl.com/pt4yhqk

You may also want to consider a R8/ER32 collet chuck.
Several good deals on Ebay so you can try for .LT. 100$
http://tinyurl.com/puoxk2l
http://tinyurl.com/p9xr9h3

[Al Drake]

Post by F. George McDuffee
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:01:32 -0500, F. George McDuffee

Post by F. George McDuffee
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 03:20:58 -0400, Al Drake
<snip>

Post by Al Drake
The R8 and draw
power drawbar is problematic.

==================
What sort of problems are you having exactly? Does this
set-up use the split R8 collet or are you using the R8 end
mill adapter with the Weldon set-screw? Are you doing
manual tool changes? Is the tooling pre-set?
For R8 Weldon example [and pretty good price] see
http://tinyurl.com/naurwgg
About collets v holders
http://tinyurl.com/pdx7pos
a spicy meatball but take a look at
http://tinyurl.com/m6mutcn
http://tinyurl.com/oovgyxq
for some ideas
Stainless Belleville
http://tinyurl.com/pt4yhqk

You may also want to consider a R8/ER32 collet chuck.
Several good deals on Ebay so you can try for .LT. 100$
http://tinyurl.com/puoxk2l
http://tinyurl.com/p9xr9h3

Those are what I'm using along with standard R8 collets. No matter
what in short time the 7/16-20 threads on the end of the bar get
stripped. I've replaced far to many in short time. The set screw on the
spindle wears out and loosens too. I'm constantly lubing the bar and the
collets and threads on the tool holders. What I really need also is a
good setup for drills other then the drill chuck and limited collets for
the tool holder. I haven't been able to fine anything yet. For now I've
been using collets that came with a drill sharpener/grinder. They fit
into a 9/16 holder and come in all sizes but I'm limited to the number
of 9/16 collets.

[F. George McDuffee]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 16:10:26 -0400, Al Drake

Post by Al Drake
Those are what I'm using along with standard R8 collets. No matter
what in short time the 7/16-20 threads on the end of the bar get
stripped. I've replaced far to many in short time. The set screw on the
spindle wears out and loosens too. I'm constantly lubing the bar and the
collets and threads on the tool holders.

If you get a R8/ER32 collet chuck you can just leave it in
the spindle and change the tools/collets. This should solve
the wear/strip problem. Unless the current drawbar is new,
invest in a new one to try the ER32 collet chuck to avoid
damage. Be sure and get the special collet nut wrenches if
required for your chuck.
The other posters may have some other suggested suppliers,
but I like HHIP. http://www.hhip.com/
http://tinyurl.com/n5jmol8
http://tinyurl.com/mvb2f8y

For cheap [which may well be good enough, at least for a
trial, see Ebay.
http://tinyurl.com/mlu2ya4

Post by Al Drake
What I really need also is a
good setup for drills other then the drill chuck and limited collets for
the tool holder.

ER32 collets w/R8 chuck will work well as drill holders as
these have a much larger range than regular collets.
http://tinyurl.com/opn6nd8

Suggest using split point screw machine length drills unless
you need the extra length. Spotting drill [not center
drill] can help if wander is a problem.
see
http://tinyurl.com/p64kzzv
http://tinyurl.com/nq2n9bs

[Al Drake]

Post by F. George McDuffee
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 16:10:26 -0400, Al Drake

Post by Al Drake
Those are what I'm using along with standard R8 collets. No matter
what in short time the 7/16-20 threads on the end of the bar get
stripped. I've replaced far to many in short time. The set screw on the
spindle wears out and loosens too. I'm constantly lubing the bar and the
collets and threads on the tool holders.

If you get a R8/ER32 collet chuck you can just leave it in
the spindle and change the tools/collets. This should solve
the wear/strip problem. Unless the current drawbar is new,
invest in a new one to try the ER32 collet chuck to avoid
damage. Be sure and get the special collet nut wrenches if
required for your chuck.
The other posters may have some other suggested suppliers,
but I like HHIP. http://www.hhip.com/
http://tinyurl.com/n5jmol8
http://tinyurl.com/mvb2f8y
For cheap [which may well be good enough, at least for a
trial, see Ebay.
http://tinyurl.com/mlu2ya4

Post by Al Drake
What I really need also is a
good setup for drills other then the drill chuck and limited collets for
the tool holder.

ER32 collets w/R8 chuck will work well as drill holders as
these have a much larger range than regular collets.
http://tinyurl.com/opn6nd8
Suggest using split point screw machine length drills unless
you need the extra length. Spotting drill [not center
drill] can help if wander is a problem.
see
http://tinyurl.com/p64kzzv
http://tinyurl.com/nq2n9bs

Thanks George. That sounds like the way I'll go. I use nothing buy stub
drills anyway. I have to find what I need on McMaster-Carr or MSC. They
claim they have accounts and stay away from other vendors though.

Al

[F. George McDuffee]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 20:17:23 -0400, Al Drake
<***@Spamex.Com> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Al Drake
Thanks George. That sounds like the way I'll go. I use nothing buy stub
drills anyway. I have to find what I need on McMaster-Carr or MSC. They
claim they have accounts and stay away from other vendors though.

Thought for you on the draw bar. If you install a R8/ER32
or ER40 chuck, you may wish to try fabricating a drawbar out
of 7/16X20 grade 8 all-thread and using a nylock nut to
retain in the spindle to stop possible stretching and
losening.

Are the owners aware that MSC and Enco are the same company?
Also you don't need an account as most web mill supplys take
all the major credit cards + PayPal.

MSC has what you need but at a higher price.
http://tinyurl.com/ljdl9kj $717.42

Bolton Tool has the R8 chuck in either ER32 or ER40 for
$37.20
http://tinyurl.com/nc4q67c
and
ER32 collets for $6.30 each http://tinyurl.com/kkkzo4g
ER40 collets for $7.70 each http://tinyurl.com/q2ovjd7
also need collet nut wrench

[Al Drake]

Post by F. George McDuffee
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 20:17:23 -0400, Al Drake
<snip>

Post by Al Drake
Thanks George. That sounds like the way I'll go. I use nothing buy stub
drills anyway. I have to find what I need on McMaster-Carr or MSC. They
claim they have accounts and stay away from other vendors though.

Thought for you on the draw bar. If you install a R8/ER32
or ER40 chuck, you may wish to try fabricating a drawbar out
of 7/16X20 grade 8 all-thread and using a nylock nut to
retain in the spindle to stop possible stretching and
losening.
Are the owners aware that MSC and Enco are the same company?
Also you don't need an account as most web mill supplys take
all the major credit cards + PayPal.
MSC has what you need but at a higher price.
http://tinyurl.com/ljdl9kj $717.42
Bolton Tool has the R8 chuck in either ER32 or ER40 for
$37.20
http://tinyurl.com/nc4q67c
and
ER32 collets for $6.30 each http://tinyurl.com/kkkzo4g
ER40 collets for $7.70 each http://tinyurl.com/q2ovjd7
also need collet nut wrench

This is a strange place I work. I guess there are no "owners" as the
company was bought but ITW some time ago but there is a BIG boss we see
once a year maybe. I don't think he even has an office in Mass. I don't
think many even know who is in the "chain of command". There's a new
manager who knows nothing that you can't learn in business school. I
doubt here's ever been in a machine shop before. I'll put some bugs in
some ears and place an order and see what happens. If the tag in under a
thousand then I'll most likely get it.

I suggested making a draw bar before but one end has that spline that
may scare the guy I have to deal with. There's a lot of buck passing.
I'll do some more reading thanks to you and see what happens.

I'll refer to your posts again.

Thanks George.

[F. George McDuffee]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 03:25:08 -0400, Al Drake
<***@Spamex.Com> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Al Drake
I'll put some bugs in
some ears and place an order and see what happens. If the tag in under a
thousand then I'll most likely get it.

=============
Good luck and let the group know how things work out. Lots
of lurkers out here that would like to ask the same
questions but don't want a ration of s***.

[Al Drake]

Post by F. George McDuffee
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 03:25:08 -0400, Al Drake
<snip>

Post by Al Drake
I'll put some bugs in
some ears and place an order and see what happens. If the tag in under a
thousand then I'll most likely get it.

=============
Good luck and let the group know how things work out. Lots
of lurkers out here that would like to ask the same
questions but don't want a ration of s***.

Will do, however most of the time at this place it takes a long time to
get things done. I will have to put together an order myself and wait
until someone places it. I'll be trying to do my part over the weekend
and thanks again for the resources.

Al

[vinny]

Post by AlDrake
I'll take your word for it and install a trial version at the shop. I
can't really try it at home as my Laptop install is limited and won't
generate G-Code. One of the restriction for some reason. I guess it would
enable dual use. I can probably sell them on the purchase if I really need
it using the machines I have now. So far I've been able to use the built
in editor on the SMX.

Buy that stupid shit if you want. Better to spend that 300 bux on books and
classes at the local junior college.
There's tons online for free anyway if you wanted to backplot. iv'e got some
shitty old smartcam version 4 backplotter that does anything that silly shit
does, it was made when the berlin wall was still up. But its yestercenturies
junk. Who cares.

Fuck all that shit!!!
You get yourself a copy of mastercam! IT WILL TEACH YOU
MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!TRUST ME!
You buy it, you borrow it, you FUCKING steal it! You learn mastercam. Then
your shop WILL BUY MASTERCAM!
Mastercam will love you in the end. Its all in their evil plan. I think they
realease it to the torrent sites before the people who actually paid for it.
As far as backplotter silly nonsenical bullshit, whatever, do what ya want,
but it would be better to hone your skills on google and find some free
stuff, then spend money you could spend on Mastercam books, and beer to
drink while learning.
All trolling aside/////
Any mill is fine, from a bridgeport to a trak to a makino to some super
dooper stupid 5 axis shit jb is babbling about, its all in the programming!!
Mastercam will teach you to program.

Besides, sounds like you have no control over shit there, might as well get
yourself mastercam, and forget the whole machine crap. they will buy it from
the place that has no down payment. Whatever it will be will be great.

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny

Post by AlDrake
I'll take your word for it and install a trial version at the shop. I
can't really try it at home as my Laptop install is limited and won't
generate G-Code. One of the restriction for some reason. I guess it would
enable dual use. I can probably sell them on the purchase if I really need
it using the machines I have now. So far I've been able to use the built
in editor on the SMX.

Buy that stupid shit if you want. Better to spend that 300 bux on books and
classes at the local junior college.
There's tons online for free anyway if you wanted to backplot. iv'e got some
shitty old smartcam version 4 backplotter that does anything that silly shit
does, it was made when the berlin wall was still up. But its yestercenturies
junk. Who cares.
Fuck all that shit!!!
You get yourself a copy of mastercam! IT WILL TEACH YOU
MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!TRUST ME!
You buy it, you borrow it, you FUCKING steal it! You learn mastercam. Then
your shop WILL BUY MASTERCAM!
Mastercam will love you in the end. Its all in their evil plan. I think they
realease it to the torrent sites before the people who actually paid for it.
As far as backplotter silly nonsenical bullshit, whatever, do what ya want,
but it would be better to hone your skills on google and find some free
stuff, then spend money you could spend on Mastercam books, and beer to
drink while learning.
All trolling aside/////
Any mill is fine, from a bridgeport to a trak to a makino to some super
dooper stupid 5 axis shit jb is babbling about, its all in the programming!!
Mastercam will teach you to program.
Besides, sounds like you have no control over shit there, might as well get
yourself mastercam, and forget the whole machine crap. they will buy it from
the place that has no down payment. Whatever it will be will be great.

You continue to make a fool out of yourself. Are you aware that Mastercam's former Director of Software Engineering for the last 8 years is both a member of my LinkedIn group and also a very active commenter there? He pretty much agrees with everything I have said about Mastercam on both my LinkedIn group and on my Why Mastercam Is The Wrong Choice blog.

[vinny]

Are you aware that Mastercam's former Director of Software Engineering for
the last 8 years is both a member of my LinkedIn group and also a very
active commenter there? He pretty much agrees with everything I have said
about Mastercam on both my LinkedIn group and on my Why Mastercam Is The
Wrong Choice blog.

Sounds like a woman scorned.

[jon_banquer]

Post by jon_banquer
Are you aware that Mastercam's former Director of Software Engineering for
the last 8 years is both a member of my LinkedIn group and also a very
active commenter there? He pretty much agrees with everything I have said
about Mastercam on both my LinkedIn group and on my Why Mastercam Is The
Wrong Choice blog.
Sounds like a woman scorned.

Sounds like you have been drinking all weekend and what little you have left for a brain is pickled.

[vinny]

"jon_banquer" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:4e9af710-ced3-41f6-a1b7-***@googlegroups.com...
On Friday, October 24, 2014 2:25:31 PM UTC-7, AlDrake wrote:

My advice remains the same... focus on 4 and 5 axis machining to reduce
setups. It's your ticket to job security.


Yep, thats good advice, get a fucking five axis mill for your semi skilled
garage shop.
or maybe a used trak mill off ebay to go with his boobcam he just bought. A
few used high speed endmills, some of that all purpose spray from wallmart
for coolant, and a rusty old file. Maybe a lixie rubber hammer with one side
missing, and the other end worn down to a nub.

[jon_banquer]

Post by jon_banquer
My advice remains the same... focus on 4 and 5 axis machining to reduce
setups. It's your ticket to job security.
Yep, thats good advice, get a fucking five axis mill for your semi skilled
garage shop.
or maybe a used trak mill off ebay to go with his boobcam he just bought. A
few used high speed endmills, some of that all purpose spray from wallmart
for coolant, and a rusty old file. Maybe a lixie rubber hammer with one side
missing, and the other end worn down to a nub.

5 axis is the future of small machining job shops.

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
My advice remains the same... focus on 4 and 5 axis machining to reduce
setups. It's your ticket to job security.
Yep, thats good advice, get a fucking five axis mill for your semi skilled
garage shop.
or maybe a used trak mill off ebay to go with his boobcam he just bought. A
few used high speed endmills, some of that all purpose spray from wallmart
for coolant, and a rusty old file. Maybe a lixie rubber hammer with one side
missing, and the other end worn down to a nub.

5 axis is the future of small machining job shops.

maybe. Depends on what kind of work your going after.
5 axis has been around for 30 years, prolly longer. Good for some shit, a
waste of ridgidity and cost for others.

I sure as hell wouldnt buy one to drill pcboards, id prolly look for an old
beat fadel for that.

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny

Post by jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
My advice remains the same... focus on 4 and 5 axis machining to reduce
setups. It's your ticket to job security.
Yep, thats good advice, get a fucking five axis mill for your semi skilled
garage shop.
or maybe a used trak mill off ebay to go with his boobcam he just bought. A
few used high speed endmills, some of that all purpose spray from wallmart
for coolant, and a rusty old file. Maybe a lixie rubber hammer with one side
missing, and the other end worn down to a nub.

5 axis is the future of small machining job shops.

maybe. Depends on what kind of work your going after.
5 axis has been around for 30 years, prolly longer. Good for some shit, a
waste of ridgidity and cost for others.
I sure as hell wouldnt buy one to drill pcboards, id prolly look for an old
beat fadel for that.

For all around, general, prototype work where reducing setups and labor is critical it's the only way to go.

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny

Post by jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
My advice remains the same... focus on 4 and 5 axis machining to reduce
setups. It's your ticket to job security.
Yep, thats good advice, get a fucking five axis mill for your semi skilled
garage shop.
or maybe a used trak mill off ebay to go with his boobcam he just
bought.
A
few used high speed endmills, some of that all purpose spray from wallmart
for coolant, and a rusty old file. Maybe a lixie rubber hammer with
one
side
missing, and the other end worn down to a nub.

5 axis is the future of small machining job shops.

maybe. Depends on what kind of work your going after.
5 axis has been around for 30 years, prolly longer. Good for some shit, a
waste of ridgidity and cost for others.
I sure as hell wouldnt buy one to drill pcboards, id prolly look for an old
beat fadel for that.

For all around, general, prototype work where reducing setups and labor is
critical it's the only way to go.

bullshit. If you never need the extra tilt, why lose the ridgitity and
casholla?

[jon_banquer]

Post by jon_banquer
My advice remains the same... focus on 4 and 5 axis machining to reduce
setups. It's your ticket to job security.
Yep, thats good advice, get a fucking five axis mill for your semi skilled
garage shop.
or maybe a used trak mill off ebay to go with his boobcam he just bought. A
few used high speed endmills, some of that all purpose spray from wallmart
for coolant, and a rusty old file. Maybe a lixie rubber hammer with one side
missing, and the other end worn down to a nub.

You wanted machining threads. I gave you machining threads. You're still not happy.

Fuck off, bitch.

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
My advice remains the same... focus on 4 and 5 axis machining to reduce
setups. It's your ticket to job security.
Yep, thats good advice, get a fucking five axis mill for your semi skilled
garage shop.
or maybe a used trak mill off ebay to go with his boobcam he just bought. A
few used high speed endmills, some of that all purpose spray from wallmart
for coolant, and a rusty old file. Maybe a lixie rubber hammer with one side
missing, and the other end worn down to a nub.

You wanted machining threads. I gave you machining threads. You're still not happy.
Fuck off, bitch.

HEy, calm down, im participating in them aren't i?
Just commenting on the advice your giving that infant.
Try giving her advice like you would a small child.

[Just Me]

Post by jon_banquer
"For now I am using some Prototrak mills and lathe. Plans for next year is to go with something with some brute force. I m not sure yet what I want to recommend so for now this serves my learning curve and have a simple approach. The mills are 3 axis and have been loading the G-code file. I haven't been able to easily find a way to output a cam file that shows something other than TXT extension but the way I'm doing it now needs no improvement as far as I can tell. I had to make adjustments to the post processor to reflect the reality of low RPM and feed. As far as work holding I have several 6" Kurts but many times I mount a plate and use pins and clamps. Sometimes sine plates and indexing heads. I have two Prototrak mills, one Prototrak lathe and some manual machines and a surface grinder so I have all I need. I'm a one man operation with all the time I need to get the job done with no production. No time clock or time sheet. No pressure and all the free coffee you can drink. Ok, so now I'm bragging."

Look into mighty machines. mightyusa.com, I got one back in mid nineties, great machine, totally reliable, Mitsubishi controls.
In the 18 yrs I've had it there have been no major issues, a speed sensor for the spindle motor, an x axis limit switch, and recently a broken wire in
harness that sends data to and from the axis encoders and control. That was a
a pain to troubleshoot.
I wish my Haas was even half as reliable, and accurate.

I'm a small job shop doing mainly prototype and the only thing is I regret not
getting 4th axis.

[Al Drake]

Post by Just Me

Post by jon_banquer
"For now I am using some Prototrak mills and lathe. Plans for next year is to go with something with some brute force. I m not sure yet what I want to recommend so for now this serves my learning curve and have a simple approach. The mills are 3 axis and have been loading the G-code file. I haven't been able to easily find a way to output a cam file that shows something other than TXT extension but the way I'm doing it now needs no improvement as far as I can tell. I had to make adjustments to the post processor to reflect the reality of low RPM and feed. As far as work holding I have several 6" Kurts but many times I mount a plate and use pins and clamps. Sometimes sine plates and indexing heads. I have two Prototrak mills, one Prototrak lathe and some manual machines and a surface grinder so I have all I need. I'm a one man operation with all the time I need to get the job done with no production. No time clock or time sheet. No pressure and all the free coffee you can drink. O

k, so now I'm bragging."

Post by Just Me
Look into mighty machines. mightyusa.com, I got one back in mid nineties, great machine, totally reliable, Mitsubishi controls.
In the 18 yrs I've had it there have been no major issues, a speed sensor for the spindle motor, an x axis limit switch, and recently a broken wire in
harness that sends data to and from the axis encoders and control. That was a
a pain to troubleshoot.
I wish my Haas was even half as reliable, and accurate.
I'm a small job shop doing mainly prototype and the only thing is I regret not
getting 4th axis.

Looks good.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUr4So1btNGUz533eVrJMMLw

Thanks. I imagine I'll be looking at plenty of videos between now and
the time a decision is finally made. Probably a few shows too. One of
the guys dragged me off to a ProtoTrak show in Mass.

http://www.southwesternindustries.com/product/trak_lpm

I'd like to see something more like what you suggested.

[vinny]

One of

Post by Al Drake
the guys dragged me off to a ProtoTrak show in Mass.

.........

[Al Drake]

Post by Al Drake
One of

Post by Al Drake
the guys dragged me off to a ProtoTrak show in Mass.

.........

Hey vinBozo when are you going to make good on your threats in that
meltdown post you pissed out? Looks like YOUR the real woman around
here. How long can you go without ragging? What's up with you vinny? Are
you always pissed off at the world?

[vinny]

Post by Al Drake

Post by Al Drake
One of

Post by Al Drake
the guys dragged me off to a ProtoTrak show in Mass.

.........

Hey vinBozo when are you going to make good on your threats in that
meltdown post you pissed out? Looks like YOUR the real woman around here.
How long can you go without ragging? What's up with you vinny? Are you
always pissed off at the world?

its more of a bored thing than a pissed thing. Picking on you turned out to
be boring.


Protraks rock. One flaw, they have rollers in the back that literally just
roll on the ways to get location.
I worked somewhere who had glass scales installed relatively cheap, turned
em into lagit cnc machines (with a little help from mastercam and cimatron)
The shithole you described, and the talent at the facility you described
scream ProTrak!
get one. They rock.

[Al Drake]

Post by vinny

Post by Al Drake

Post by Al Drake
One of

Post by Al Drake
the guys dragged me off to a ProtoTrak show in Mass.

.........

Hey vinBozo when are you going to make good on your threats in that
meltdown post you pissed out? Looks like YOUR the real woman around
here. How long can you go without ragging? What's up with you vinny?
Are you always pissed off at the world?

its more of a bored thing than a pissed thing. Picking on you turned out
to be boring.

Simply because you never have anything. You act like an adolescent. I'm
still waiting for you to make good on your treats in that meltdown post.
Until you show me something you will remain a worthless empty little man
running scared with a bottle of beer and joint in your hand. Your not
real and you never will be.

Now get back to your belt sander.

Post by vinny
Protraks rock. One flaw, they have rollers in the back that literally
just roll on the ways to get location.
I worked somewhere who had glass scales installed relatively cheap,
turned em into lagit cnc machines (with a little help from mastercam and
cimatron)
The shithole you described, and the talent at the facility you described
scream ProTrak!
get one. They rock.

What is a ProTrak? Do you play with trains?


http://www.protrak.cc/

"ProTrak is designed to totally integrate all aspects of:

car-forwarding;
train dispatching; and,
being a train engineer and/or conductor. "

Woo Wooooo.............

:)

[vinny]

Post by Al Drake
What is a ProTrak? Do you play with trains?
http://www.protrak.cc/
car-forwarding;
train dispatching; and,
being a train engineer and/or conductor. "
Woo Wooooo.............
:)

You total fucking moron, its short for prototrak.
Its like calling a transmission a tranny.
You are one green mofo. (thats short for mother fucker) damn tard.

jeesh.
HERE! Watch this 2 minute youtube video and you will be sold on how easy it
is.
Mill and lathe have the same contoller.
Everyone on the planet, well, except you and jb have run these.

The simplist conversational stuff ive ever used, and the ability to run as a
full fledged cnc from the computer.
pretty ridgit, and real cheap.

There is no easier machine on Earth to learn. takes a regular person about
an hour to master the whole thing, so you and your clown shop should be up
and running within the first 30 days.

here's an introduction to cnc, youll be needing this one.....

[Al Drake]

Post by vinny

Post by Al Drake
What is a ProTrak? Do you play with trains?
http://www.protrak.cc/
car-forwarding;
train dispatching; and,
being a train engineer and/or conductor. "
Woo Wooooo.............
:)

You total fucking moron, its short for prototrak.
Its like calling a transmission a tranny.
You are one green mofo. (thats short for mother fucker) damn tard.
jeesh.
HERE! Watch this 2 minute youtube video and you will be sold on how easy
it is.
Mill and lathe have the same contoller.
Everyone on the planet, well, except you and jb have run these.
http://youtu.be/2tyocLvlaqQ
The simplist conversational stuff ive ever used, and the ability to run
as a full fledged cnc from the computer.
pretty ridgit, and real cheap.
There is no easier machine on Earth to learn. takes a regular person
about an hour to master the whole thing, so you and your clown shop
should be up and running within the first 30 days.
here's an introduction to cnc, youll be needing this one.....
http://youtu.be/oMOJc_f_kOI

You really haven't been paying attention, have you? I have been using
Prototrak since the first one was introduced. I use them now. I remember
when they used a cassette to store and retrieve their limited programs.
You were still sucking your thumb no doubt.

[jon_banquer]

Post by Al Drake

Post by vinny

Post by Al Drake
What is a ProTrak? Do you play with trains?
http://www.protrak.cc/
car-forwarding;
train dispatching; and,
being a train engineer and/or conductor. "
Woo Wooooo.............
:)

You total fucking moron, its short for prototrak.
Its like calling a transmission a tranny.
You are one green mofo. (thats short for mother fucker) damn tard.
jeesh.
HERE! Watch this 2 minute youtube video and you will be sold on how easy
it is.
Mill and lathe have the same contoller.
Everyone on the planet, well, except you and jb have run these.
http://youtu.be/2tyocLvlaqQ
The simplist conversational stuff ive ever used, and the ability to run
as a full fledged cnc from the computer.
pretty ridgit, and real cheap.
There is no easier machine on Earth to learn. takes a regular person
about an hour to master the whole thing, so you and your clown shop
should be up and running within the first 30 days.
here's an introduction to cnc, youll be needing this one.....
http://youtu.be/oMOJc_f_kOI

You really haven't been paying attention, have you? I have been using
Prototrak since the first one was introduced. I use them now. I remember
when they used a cassette to store and retrieve their limited programs.
You were still sucking your thumb no doubt.

There comes a time when some of us realize how much more we can do with a high end CNC machine that has fast automatic tool changes, fast rapids, 4 and 5 axis capabilities, etc.

[Al Drake]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Al Drake

Post by vinny

Post by Al Drake
What is a ProTrak? Do you play with trains?
http://www.protrak.cc/
car-forwarding;
train dispatching; and,
being a train engineer and/or conductor. "
Woo Wooooo.............
:)

You total fucking moron, its short for prototrak.
Its like calling a transmission a tranny.
You are one green mofo. (thats short for mother fucker) damn tard.
jeesh.
HERE! Watch this 2 minute youtube video and you will be sold on how easy
it is.
Mill and lathe have the same contoller.
Everyone on the planet, well, except you and jb have run these.
http://youtu.be/2tyocLvlaqQ
The simplist conversational stuff ive ever used, and the ability to run
as a full fledged cnc from the computer.
pretty ridgit, and real cheap.
There is no easier machine on Earth to learn. takes a regular person
about an hour to master the whole thing, so you and your clown shop
should be up and running within the first 30 days.
here's an introduction to cnc, youll be needing this one.....
http://youtu.be/oMOJc_f_kOI

You really haven't been paying attention, have you? I have been using
Prototrak since the first one was introduced. I use them now. I remember
when they used a cassette to store and retrieve their limited programs.
You were still sucking your thumb no doubt.

There comes a time when some of us realize how much more we can do with a high end CNC machine that has fast automatic tool changes, fast rapids, 4 and 5 axis capabilities, etc.

That's what I'm looking forward to. Maybe sometime in the following year.

[jon_banquer]

Post by Al Drake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Al Drake

Post by vinny

Post by Al Drake
What is a ProTrak? Do you play with trains?
http://www.protrak.cc/
car-forwarding;
train dispatching; and,
being a train engineer and/or conductor. "
Woo Wooooo.............
:)

You total fucking moron, its short for prototrak.
Its like calling a transmission a tranny.
You are one green mofo. (thats short for mother fucker) damn tard.
jeesh.
HERE! Watch this 2 minute youtube video and you will be sold on how easy
it is.
Mill and lathe have the same contoller.
Everyone on the planet, well, except you and jb have run these.
http://youtu.be/2tyocLvlaqQ
The simplist conversational stuff ive ever used, and the ability to run
as a full fledged cnc from the computer.
pretty ridgit, and real cheap.
There is no easier machine on Earth to learn. takes a regular person
about an hour to master the whole thing, so you and your clown shop
should be up and running within the first 30 days.
here's an introduction to cnc, youll be needing this one.....
http://youtu.be/oMOJc_f_kOI

You really haven't been paying attention, have you? I have been using
Prototrak since the first one was introduced. I use them now. I remember
when they used a cassette to store and retrieve their limited programs.
You were still sucking your thumb no doubt.

There comes a time when some of us realize how much more we can do with a high end CNC machine that has fast automatic tool changes, fast rapids, 4 and 5 axis capabilities, etc.

That's what I'm looking forward to. Maybe sometime in the following year.

It's a big jump mentally and it's well worth it for those who live to make difficult parts. I believe the key to protecting your future is making this jump. Like anything else worth accomplishing, you have to be willing to sacrifice.

Seek out people in this thread like toolie955 and Jay Hood who posts as g-cooder05

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cad-cam/del-cam-290998/index3.html

This is who Jay Hood works for.

http://www.star-prototype.com/company/top-management/

These are the kinds of very difficult parts Jay makes. They aren't being done on a Prototrak.

http://www.star-prototype.com/case-studies/

Being this good puts you among the elite and the pay is significantly higher.

[Al Drake]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Al Drake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Al Drake

Post by vinny

Post by Al Drake
What is a ProTrak? Do you play with trains?
http://www.protrak.cc/
car-forwarding;
train dispatching; and,
being a train engineer and/or conductor. "
Woo Wooooo.............
:)

You total fucking moron, its short for prototrak.
Its like calling a transmission a tranny.
You are one green mofo. (thats short for mother fucker) damn tard.
jeesh.
HERE! Watch this 2 minute youtube video and you will be sold on how easy
it is.
Mill and lathe have the same contoller.
Everyone on the planet, well, except you and jb have run these.
http://youtu.be/2tyocLvlaqQ
The simplist conversational stuff ive ever used, and the ability to run
as a full fledged cnc from the computer.
pretty ridgit, and real cheap.
There is no easier machine on Earth to learn. takes a regular person
about an hour to master the whole thing, so you and your clown shop
should be up and running within the first 30 days.
here's an introduction to cnc, youll be needing this one.....
http://youtu.be/oMOJc_f_kOI

You really haven't been paying attention, have you? I have been using
Prototrak since the first one was introduced. I use them now. I remember
when they used a cassette to store and retrieve their limited programs.
You were still sucking your thumb no doubt.

There comes a time when some of us realize how much more we can do with a high end CNC machine that has fast automatic tool changes, fast rapids, 4 and 5 axis capabilities, etc.

That's what I'm looking forward to. Maybe sometime in the following year.

It's a big jump mentally and it's well worth it for those who live to make difficult parts. I believe the key to protecting your future is making this jump. Like anything else worth accomplishing, you have to be willing to sacrifice.
Seek out people in this thread like toolie955 and Jay Hood who posts as g-cooder05
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cad-cam/del-cam-290998/index3.html
This is who Jay Hood works for.
http://www.star-prototype.com/company/top-management/
These are the kinds of very difficult parts Jay makes. They aren't being done on a Prototrak.
http://www.star-prototype.com/case-studies/
Being this good puts you among the elite and the pay is significantly higher.

I've been for this move but I'm not the one with the say of when. I'll
check out all your cites.

Thanks.

[jon_banquer]

Post by Al Drake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Al Drake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Al Drake

Post by vinny

Post by Al Drake
What is a ProTrak? Do you play with trains?
http://www.protrak.cc/
car-forwarding;
train dispatching; and,
being a train engineer and/or conductor. "
Woo Wooooo.............
:)

You total fucking moron, its short for prototrak.
Its like calling a transmission a tranny.
You are one green mofo. (thats short for mother fucker) damn tard.
jeesh.
HERE! Watch this 2 minute youtube video and you will be sold on how easy
it is.
Mill and lathe have the same contoller.
Everyone on the planet, well, except you and jb have run these.
http://youtu.be/2tyocLvlaqQ
The simplist conversational stuff ive ever used, and the ability to run
as a full fledged cnc from the computer.
pretty ridgit, and real cheap.
There is no easier machine on Earth to learn. takes a regular person
about an hour to master the whole thing, so you and your clown shop
should be up and running within the first 30 days.
here's an introduction to cnc, youll be needing this one.....
http://youtu.be/oMOJc_f_kOI

You really haven't been paying attention, have you? I have been using
Prototrak since the first one was introduced. I use them now. I remember
when they used a cassette to store and retrieve their limited programs.
You were still sucking your thumb no doubt.

There comes a time when some of us realize how much more we can do with a high end CNC machine that has fast automatic tool changes, fast rapids, 4 and 5 axis capabilities, etc.

That's what I'm looking forward to. Maybe sometime in the following year.

It's a big jump mentally and it's well worth it for those who live to make difficult parts. I believe the key to protecting your future is making this jump. Like anything else worth accomplishing, you have to be willing to sacrifice.
Seek out people in this thread like toolie955 and Jay Hood who posts as g-cooder05
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cad-cam/del-cam-290998/index3.html
This is who Jay Hood works for.
http://www.star-prototype.com/company/top-management/
These are the kinds of very difficult parts Jay makes. They aren't being done on a Prototrak.
http://www.star-prototype.com/case-studies/
Being this good puts you among the elite and the pay is significantly higher.

I've been for this move but I'm not the one with the say of when. I'll
check out all your cites.
Thanks.

Great!

Can we get back to wife beating, arrests, mugshots, etc. now? I'm not use to intelligent machining, CADCAM conversation here and it needs to end. :P

BTW, I like the Prototrak control event programing. It's got its place. Did quite a bit of it here after I left Qualcomm:

http://www.pyramidprecision.com/

[vinny]

Can we get back to wife beating, I'm not use to intelligent machining,

Now thats funny.

event programming? Alright, ill bite, wtf is that?

[Al Drake]

Post by vinny

Can we get back to wife beating, I'm not use to intelligent machining,

Now thats funny.
event programming? Alright, ill bite, wtf is that?

Each canned cycle is an event. They are listed by numbers. Frame events,
bolt circle, pocket, profile, mill, arc, and so on. I thought you
claimed to know ProtoTrak.

[jon_banquer]

Post by Al Drake

Post by vinny

Can we get back to wife beating, I'm not use to intelligent machining,

Now thats funny.
event programming? Alright, ill bite, wtf is that?

Each canned cycle is an event. They are listed by numbers. Frame events,
bolt circle, pocket, profile, mill, arc, and so on. I thought you
claimed to know ProtoTrak.

Way to go, Al! Teach it!

You know the Prototrak control. Actually I had no doubt about that.

[vinny]

Post by Al Drake

Post by vinny

Can we get back to wife beating, I'm not use to intelligent machining,

Now thats funny.
event programming? Alright, ill bite, wtf is that?

Each canned cycle is an event. They are listed by numbers. Frame events,
bolt circle, pocket, profile, mill, arc, and so on. I thought you claimed
to know ProtoTrak.

wow, that was impressive.


I dont use canned cycles in anything, not even a lathe unless im threading.
The protrak mill I used20 yrs ago to cut trodes on was hooked to the
computer, i did ALL my programming for that cheesey thing on pro-e.
The protraks mills they had at my last job I didnt run, I did the
programming on mastecam and cimatron.
The protrak lathe is the only thing I didnt program at the computer, because
I ran it for 2 weeks then we got a new samsung.
Never got around to hooking that one up to the computers. And yes, I used
the canned cycles.
And yes I clicked the event button. OMG.
The fucking event button is just the button you hit to make another
conversational line.
ITS A CONVERSATIONAL! So they call each gimmic they do an event. You idiots
are acting like they got something going on.
The word "event" means nothing. Its stupid to even use that word.

They could of used the words "next cut", or "next group" instead they used
the word event.
Mastercam calls them ops.
Its a fucking conversational lathe, every thing you do is "an event"
How fucking stupid.
I just couldnt resist hearing the explantion from you infants.

Now, if your in a little shithole, running the cheapest conversational mill
there is, drilling bolt circles...you might want to hire jb, hes a hole
expert from what im told.

Between you picking words out of the controller like "event" or next or
whatever it says, and jb cutting and pasting caliming to of had sex with
every important cnc guy in the world it's become a full fledged circus.
We all are green, ignorant or whatever you want to say about tons of shit,
nobody has enough time in their lives to master everything, but you two
clowns...fuck...go back to arguing about jews, at least you half know wtf
your talking about, being a human and all.
Your embarrasing.


go back to using an editor. Here, I pasted this for you...
****************************


CNC Backplot Editor
This program will help you write NC code programs or to learn how to write
NC programs or event to debug such programs. This software supports the
standard G Code commands and also ...





****************************

Hey! There's that event word again, in an editor. Im all confused now.

[Al Drake]

Post by vinny

Post by Al Drake

Post by vinny

Can we get back to wife beating, I'm not use to intelligent machining,

Now thats funny.
event programming? Alright, ill bite, wtf is that?

Each canned cycle is an event. They are listed by numbers. Frame
events, bolt circle, pocket, profile, mill, arc, and so on. I thought
you claimed to know ProtoTrak.

wow, that was impressive.
I dont use canned cycles in anything, not even a lathe unless im threading.
The protrak mill I used20 yrs ago to cut trodes on was hooked to the
computer, i did ALL my programming for that cheesey thing on pro-e.
The protraks mills they had at my last job I didnt run, I did the
programming on mastecam and cimatron.
The protrak lathe is the only thing I didnt program at the computer,
because I ran it for 2 weeks then we got a new samsung.
Never got around to hooking that one up to the computers. And yes, I
used the canned cycles.
And yes I clicked the event button. OMG.
The fucking event button is just the button you hit to make another
conversational line.
ITS A CONVERSATIONAL! So they call each gimmic they do an event. You
idiots are acting like they got something going on.
The word "event" means nothing. Its stupid to even use that word.
They could of used the words "next cut", or "next group" instead they
used the word event.
Mastercam calls them ops.
Its a fucking conversational lathe, every thing you do is "an event"
How fucking stupid.
I just couldnt resist hearing the explantion from you infants.
Now, if your in a little shithole, running the cheapest conversational
mill there is, drilling bolt circles...you might want to hire jb, hes a
hole expert from what im told.
Between you picking words out of the controller like "event" or next or
whatever it says, and jb cutting and pasting caliming to of had sex with
every important cnc guy in the world it's become a full fledged circus.
We all are green, ignorant or whatever you want to say about tons of
shit, nobody has enough time in their lives to master everything, but
you two clowns...fuck...go back to arguing about jews, at least you half
know wtf your talking about, being a human and all.
Your embarrasing.
go back to using an editor. Here, I pasted this for you...
****************************
CNC Backplot Editor
This program will help you write NC code programs or to learn how to
write NC programs or event to debug such programs. This software
supports the standard G Code commands and also ...
****************************
Hey! There's that event word again, in an editor. Im all confused now.

Goobye vinny.

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny

Can we get back to wife beating, I'm not use to intelligent machining,

Now thats funny.

[Al Drake]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Al Drake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Al Drake

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Al Drake

Post by vinny

Post by Al Drake
What is a ProTrak? Do you play with trains?
http://www.protrak.cc/
car-forwarding;
train dispatching; and,
being a train engineer and/or conductor. "
Woo Wooooo.............
:)

You total fucking moron, its short for prototrak.
Its like calling a transmission a tranny.
You are one green mofo. (thats short for mother fucker) damn tard.
jeesh.
HERE! Watch this 2 minute youtube video and you will be sold on how easy
it is.
Mill and lathe have the same contoller.
Everyone on the planet, well, except you and jb have run these.
http://youtu.be/2tyocLvlaqQ
The simplist conversational stuff ive ever used, and the ability to run
as a full fledged cnc from the computer.
pretty ridgit, and real cheap.
There is no easier machine on Earth to learn. takes a regular person
about an hour to master the whole thing, so you and your clown shop
should be up and running within the first 30 days.
here's an introduction to cnc, youll be needing this one.....
http://youtu.be/oMOJc_f_kOI

You really haven't been paying attention, have you? I have been using
Prototrak since the first one was introduced. I use them now. I remember
when they used a cassette to store and retrieve their limited programs.
You were still sucking your thumb no doubt.

There comes a time when some of us realize how much more we can do with a high end CNC machine that has fast automatic tool changes, fast rapids, 4 and 5 axis capabilities, etc.

That's what I'm looking forward to. Maybe sometime in the following year.

It's a big jump mentally and it's well worth it for those who live to make difficult parts. I believe the key to protecting your future is making this jump. Like anything else worth accomplishing, you have to be willing to sacrifice.
Seek out people in this thread like toolie955 and Jay Hood who posts as g-cooder05
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cad-cam/del-cam-290998/index3.html
This is who Jay Hood works for.
http://www.star-prototype.com/company/top-management/
These are the kinds of very difficult parts Jay makes. They aren't being done on a Prototrak.
http://www.star-prototype.com/case-studies/
Being this good puts you among the elite and the pay is significantly higher.

I've been for this move but I'm not the one with the say of when. I'll
check out all your cites.
Thanks.

Great!
Can we get back to wife beating, arrests, mugshots, etc. now? I'm not use to intelligent machining, CADCAM conversation here and it needs to end. :P

I thought you gave it up.

Post by jon_banquer
http://www.pyramidprecision.com/

[vinny]

Post by Al Drake
You really haven't been paying attention, have you? I have been using
Prototrak since the first one was introduced. I use them now. I remember
when they used a cassette to store and retrieve their limited programs.
You were still sucking your thumb no doubt.

Cool! So I can question you on its specifics and you can answer!

When those cassettes were out dipshit, the rest of the world put a btr on
the back.
You can play old cnc guy iffen you want, but after those posts on practical
machinist, well,,,the cats kinda out of the bag.

So your a proTOtrak expert. WHAHOOOO!!!
20 years ago I ran one cutting 3d trodes, I was using proe to program it,
ran dnc on it using the built in stuff from pro e.
Except for those silly rollers having to be cleaned daily, it ran like a
gem.
No, i didnt use a cassette, I used dnc. Its been around forever.

So if your an expert at them, why the fuck not buy one?
You only need a toolchanget if you have the production thing going on, and
it sounds like you dont.

If you need a toolchanger, get an okuma. Easy and cheap.
But your shithole sounds like it needs lower end stuff to match the people
they have.

Protraks and boobcam.
And no silly gay azz editors or backplotters.
I think boobcam even comes with built in dnc.

[d***@gmail.com]

http://cnc-programming-tips.blogspot.ca/2014/11/m97-m98-m99-sub-programs-or-sub-routines.html check for learning CNC