ULTEM 1000 PEI

It is a little brittle, but it doesn't seem to wear out tools (carbide)

It gives a good finish. If you get into a chipping problem just use a
chamfer on your end mills.

We use small tools on this stuff because the parts are small, usually less
than in inch cube.

It doesn't seem to melt like most plastics.

Regards,

Stan-

Post by Kathy
Any of you guys ever machine this stuff? I just got the bar of stock in
today and it is something I've never seen before. Kind of the color of a
beer bottle. The engineers selected it for it's ability to withstand heat.
It seems a little brittle but I haven't taken a cut on it yet. I did some
surfing and found the recommended speeds and feeds, I was just wondering if
any of you had some actual experience with the stuff that you could share.
TIA

Kathy

2003-08-01 04:35:04 UTC

Post by Stanley Dornfeld
It is a little brittle, but it doesn't seem to wear out tools (carbide)
It gives a good finish. If you get into a chipping problem just use a
chamfer on your end mills.
We use small tools on this stuff because the parts are small, usually less
than in inch cube.
It doesn't seem to melt like most plastics.
Regards,
Stan-

Thanks, Stan. I will be using tiny carbide tools and cobalt drills. I was
thinking I should go for a coating on the endmills, but maybe not. I think
I'll be able to use as large as 5/64 endmills.

Garlicdude

2003-08-01 11:54:35 UTC

Post by Kathy

Thanks, Stan. I will be using tiny carbide tools and cobalt drills. I was
thinking I should go for a coating on the endmills, but maybe not. I think
I'll be able to use as large as 5/64 endmills.

Kathy, I've drilled small holes in ULTEM 1000, .040, if I
remember. Used those little carbide circuit board drills,
worked nice. Used spray mist, the air plus water worked
well for me.

--
Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World
http://www.pulsareng.com/

PrecisionMachinisT

2003-07-31 22:58:03 UTC

I got some unidentified material in here a month or so ago sounds like what
youdescribe--It was 1/2 in. round rod---The turning part was easy, I sent it
out and the guy had no problems......375 dia turn leaving a 1/2 x .085
shoulder on each end--2.17 oal....

I had to mill a vee groove in them longitudinally so they could be used as
a slide bearing---The point of the vee was some considerable distance past
centerline so not much left after it was milled away (fixturing was a
bitch).....

Any way, I had 40 of them to make and the tool started leaving a real big
burr after only a few parts.....Left me wishing I had used carbide......The
stuff might have had some glass in it <g>

Anyhow, take it for what its worth.......Oh here's a piece of it---I would
rate this stuff more closely to the color of them cocoa puffs than to a beer
bottle

I guess as a point of referance, a bottle of beer seems like a preety good
place to start.......though......*I*.......prefer.........cans.........

--
SVL

Nobody

2003-07-31 23:25:24 UTC

Post by Kathy
any of you had some actual experience with the stuff that you could share.
TIA

I got some unidentified material in here a month or so ago sounds like what
youdescribe--It was 1/2 in. round rod---The turning part was easy, I sent it
out and the guy had no problems......375 dia turn leaving a 1/2 x .085
shoulder on each end--2.17 oal....
I had to mill a vee groove in them longitudinally so they could be used as
a slide bearing---The point of the vee was some considerable distance past
centerline so not much left after it was milled away (fixturing was a
bitch).....
Any way, I had 40 of them to make and the tool started leaving a real big
burr after only a few parts.....Left me wishing I had used carbide......The
stuff might have had some glass in it <g>
Anyhow, take it for what its worth.......Oh here's a piece of it---I would
rate this stuff more closely to the color of them cocoa puffs than to a beer
bottle
I guess as a point of referance, a bottle of beer seems like a preety good
place to start.......though......*I*.......prefer.........cans.........

Sam,

I don't think you machined Ultem. It definitely is the color of a beer
bottle. IIRC, you should be able to see through it.

Rick

PrecisionMachinisT

2003-07-31 23:29:29 UTC

Post by Kathy
any of you had some actual experience with the stuff that you could share.
TIA

carbide......The

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
stuff might have had some glass in it <g>
Anyhow, take it for what its worth.......Oh here's a piece of it---I would
rate this stuff more closely to the color of them cocoa puffs than to a beer
bottle
I guess as a point of referance, a bottle of beer seems like a preety good
place to start.......though......*I*.......prefer.........cans.........

Sam,
I don't think you machined Ultem. It definitely is the color of a beer
bottle. IIRC, you should be able to see through it.
Rick

Thanks Rick.

I might never figger out what that stuff was......<G>

--
SVL

John Sullivan

2003-08-01 02:33:53 UTC

Polysulfone is similar (a bit lighter) in color to Ultem 1000. Maybe that is
what you had. Not that it matters now that you've already done the parts.

As far as the Ultem 1000, I've machined a bit of it. Used spindle speeds in
the 1200-2400 range, feedrates 10-20 IPM. Using 1/2" 2FL carbide, 5/32 2FL
carbide and 3/16 2FL carbide ballnose.

--
John Sullivan
Jamlab Enterprises
http://jamlab.home.att.net

Post by Kathy

heat.

Post by Kathy
It seems a little brittle but I haven't taken a cut on it yet. I did

some

Post by Kathy
surfing and found the recommended speeds and feeds, I was just wondering

Post by Kathy
any of you had some actual experience with the stuff that you could

share.

Post by Kathy
TIA

I got some unidentified material in here a month or so ago sounds like

what

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
youdescribe--It was 1/2 in. round rod---The turning part was easy, I

sent

Post by Kathy
it

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
out and the guy had no problems......375 dia turn leaving a 1/2 x .085
shoulder on each end--2.17 oal....
I had to mill a vee groove in them longitudinally so they could be

used

Post by Kathy
as

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
a slide bearing---The point of the vee was some considerable distance

past

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
centerline so not much left after it was milled away (fixturing was a
bitch).....
Any way, I had 40 of them to make and the tool started leaving a real big
burr after only a few parts.....Left me wishing I had used

carbide......The

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
stuff might have had some glass in it <g>
Anyhow, take it for what its worth.......Oh here's a piece of it---I

would

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
rate this stuff more closely to the color of them cocoa puffs than to a

beer

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
bottle
I guess as a point of referance, a bottle of beer seems like a preety

good

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
place to start.......though......*I*.......prefer.........cans.........

Sam,
I don't think you machined Ultem. It definitely is the color of a beer
bottle. IIRC, you should be able to see through it.
Rick

Thanks Rick.
I might never figger out what that stuff was......<G>
--
SVL

Nobody

2003-08-01 12:18:06 UTC

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
Thanks Rick.
I might never figger out what that stuff was......<G>

Sam,

Did the material look like the stuff on this web page?

http://www.boedeker.com/ultem_p.htm

Rick

PrecisionMachinist

2003-08-01 14:09:08 UTC

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
Thanks Rick.
I might never figger out what that stuff was......<G>

Sam,
Did the material look like the stuff on this web page?
http://www.boedeker.com/ultem_p.htm

Nope.

The material was not translucent by any stretch..........

I might ask again, the PA dont know diddly sometimes--he said it was a
"delrin with nylon" ------Ive worked extensively with both
those........Their engineer should be able to come up with the name of the
stuff, if I whack him topside hard enough to jog his neural network...youve
probly met the type.....<G>

Plan is to have the part go injection mold for production eventually. It did
remind me of uhmw a tad, but much harder.

Its to run as linear positioning slide bearing within an anodized aluminum
beam-----Last I hear they simulated 6 yrs usage under normal usage---The
servomotor failed so the unit was disasembled and bearing wear was barely
measureable.

--

SVL

PrecisionMachinisT

2003-08-01 19:21:13 UTC

Post by PrecisionMachinist
The material was not translucent by any stretch..........

I got it now. I'll bet you a hole in a donut that your material was
Delrin AF. That would be Delrin filled with Teflon. The color
certainly is cocoa brown. Check out my web page and tell me if the
timing gear looks like the material you are talking about.
http://members.toast.net/chronicache/

Yup, All bets are off---a good possibility thats the stuff.

Delrin AF is soft like UMHW, but not as resilient. If you drop the part
it will leave a dent. Also the chips sort of look like crumbs when you
machine the material. I recall a definite odor too. One that clears
the sinus!

I dint get an odor though.

That timing gear on my page is / was for one of IBM's machines. It took
us awhile to nail down the process on that baby, but we figured it out
and made thousands of those parts. That was a challenging and
interesting job. One thing about that material is that it held
tolerance well.

Any ideas why the endmill went toast so soon ?

=========

BTW, some nice lookin parts there, Rick.

--
SVL

Nobody

2003-08-01 21:54:14 UTC

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
Any ideas why the endmill went toast so soon ?

For the most part vee tools do not have much clearance, so that may be
the problem. I would have relieved the tool just behind the cutting
edge. Standard vee tools generally are meant to machines metals and not
plastics. I'll bet you could have ground away just a little bit of
material just behind that cutting edge and your performance would have
picked up considerably. Carbide may have helped, but from what I
remember, you could have gotten away with HSS for 40 parts.

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
=========
BTW, some nice lookin parts there, Rick.

Thanks. I wish I had taken photos as I went along in my career.
Sometimes it's nice to revisit some of the old work. :-)

Rick

PS: Your right, that particular delrin did not smell too bad. I was
thinking of another material.

PrecisionMachinisT

2003-08-01 22:12:50 UTC

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
Any ideas why the endmill went toast so soon ?

Ahh...... But it was a 90 deg vee, so I rotated the part 45 degrees for
exactly the reasons you noted above....the burr was mainly on the side
milled edge IIRC....

I still think the stuff I had might have had glass in it.

--
SVL

Cliff Huprich

2003-08-02 07:11:12 UTC

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
I still think the stuff I had might have had glass in it.

There are *lots* of abrasive fillers used. Pick about any cheap
mineral (or expensive glass microspheres) ... even wood flour.

--
Cliff Huprich

Kathy

2003-08-01 22:34:38 UTC

Post by Nobody
PS: Your right, that particular delrin did not smell too bad. I was

thinking of another material.

I think delrin will make water soluble coolant smell like someone trying to
clean up cat pee. Yuck. And it puts a sludge in the bottom of the tank. Cut
it dry, I say. Just go real fast and you won't have a problem. This Ultem on
the other hand is pretty hard shit. I cut a piece off of the bar of stock
today on the bandsaw it made a big hairy burr. I wonder if this stuff is
expensive. I'll worry about that next week.

Cliff Huprich

2003-08-02 07:11:11 UTC

Post by Kathy
I think delrin will make water soluble coolant smell like someone trying to
clean up cat pee. Yuck. And it puts a sludge in the bottom of the tank.

Interesting that unfilled Delrin has a density of 1.41 .....

--
Cliff Huprich

Nobody

2003-08-02 13:35:49 UTC

Its not too cheap. I think we were used 8 bucks for a 6 in by 1.5 dia
piece as a cost price on the part. One other thing as Rick mentioned I
used a ground and polished HSS tool to finish the bore on the parts I
made. The inserts weren't giving a good enough finish and the run was
short so it worked out ok.
John

That made me smile when I saw the part about the ground and polished HSS
boring tool. That was one of my favorite tricks. Without rough edges
it is much more difficult for the chips to bind up. I much sooner use a
brazed carbide boring bar than an inserted one on small work (1.000 and
under). If I really had to use an insert boring bar, I would grind and
polish clearance in key spots on the shank and under the insert.

Rick

Cliff Huprich

2003-08-02 07:11:12 UTC

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
Yup, All bets are off---a good possibility thats the stuff.

There is little hope of telling any plastic by it's color.
A clear one will eliminate some options. Same with white. But
beyond that ....

--
Cliff Huprich

Nobody

2003-08-02 13:55:03 UTC

Post by Cliff Huprich

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
Yup, All bets are off---a good possibility thats the stuff.

There is little hope of telling any plastic by it's color.
A clear one will eliminate some options. Same with white. But
beyond that ....

That might be true of an amateur guessologist. ( A good description of
the material, along with it's color could be very helpful in determining
what the material is. We are simply trying to get a general
identification of the material, not write a detailed report of the
chemical ingredients ). People who spent years in the business might
disagree with you. :-) Cliff, you are a ball-buster!

Rick

Cliff Huprich

2003-08-03 02:30:37 UTC

"PrecisionMachinisT"

Post by Cliff Huprich

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
Yup, All bets are off---a good possibility thats the stuff.

There is little hope of telling any plastic by it's color.
A clear one will eliminate some options. Same with white. But
beyond that ....

Rick,
Almost any plastic can have a very wide range of colors.

"General identification"? Just say it's Red Plastic ... I suppose
any Red Plastic would do, right?

I suspect you have worked with very few of the thousands of plastics ...

--
Cliff Huprich

Nobody

2003-08-03 03:41:58 UTC

Post by Cliff Huprich
Rick,
Almost any plastic can have a very wide range of colors.

Maybe.

Post by Cliff Huprich
"General identification"? Just say it's Red Plastic ... I suppose
any Red Plastic would do, right?

Nope.

Post by Cliff Huprich
I suspect you have worked with very few of the thousands of plastics ...

I would venture to guess the number is somewhere in the 30's; most of
the popular used plastics. I would say that is a fair amount of
experience in the field.

Rick

Cliff Huprich

2003-08-03 08:51:31 UTC

Post by Cliff Huprich
Rick,
Almost any plastic can have a very wide range of colors.

Maybe.

Post by Cliff Huprich
"General identification"? Just say it's Red Plastic ... I suppose
any Red Plastic would do, right?

Nope.

Post by Cliff Huprich
I suspect you have worked with very few of the thousands of plastics ...

I would venture to guess the number is somewhere in the 30's; most of
the popular used plastics. I would say that is a fair amount of
experience in the field.

A search at matweb.com for "plastic" got 21,369 hits without
even mentioning how I wanted them colored <G>.
There are many, many materials Matweb.com does not have listed .....

One of the major selling points of plastics is how easily they can
be colored .... though making a dark polymer light is quite the task at
times ....

--
Cliff Huprich

PrecisionMachinist

2003-08-01 01:29:07 UTC

wondering

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
if

Post by Kathy
any of you had some actual experience with the stuff that you could share.
TIA

carbide......The

There are a couple of different Untem materials 1000, 2000 and others,
all come from GE. You may have a variation. 1000 definitely looks like
beer bottle glass.
You eat cocoa puffs? Beer is a lot better.

Not with milk.

--

SVL

Nobody

2003-07-31 23:19:06 UTC

Sounds like you got the material from my former place of employment, DSM
who now calls itself Quadrant Engineering. I wish I could give you some
feedback, but I do not recall machining much of that material. IIRC,
the material was a new product line back in the 1990's. From what I
remember, that stuff melts kind of easily. It also fractures if you
feed too quickly through it. I'm not sure if it was Ultem or Peek, but
you might want to be careful cleaning the parts with any type of
solvent. I did such a thing the first time I machined that material and
the solvent started to dissolve the parts in the tote pan. The parts
actually melted together. You probably will want to use coolant while
machining; watch what type of coolant you select.

Try these sites for additional information:

http://www.quadrantepp.matweb.com/SpecificMaterialNew.asp?bassnum=P1SM50&group=General

http://www.boedeker.com/fabtip.htm

Wish I could offer more help, but most of my time was spent machining
various nylons, teflon, and some really strange materials. When the
machine shop closed in '97 we were just getting our first glimpse of
Ultem. I don't have much experience with that particular material.

Rick

SPI01

2003-08-01 00:50:11 UTC

Ultem 1000 machines well. It is brittle and will breakout like cast Iron or
acrylic. It turns exceptionally well and is resistant to soluble oils.
Maching dry will usually lead to chip welding and generally unacceptable
results. We have used both ultem 1000 and 2000 extensively for fuel cell
gas manifolds. Ultem 2000 is glass filled and typically sucks to machine,
this is probably the unidentified material in SVL's post. You should not
run into any major problems with 1000. Speeds and feeds are application
dependant, we use only carbide so speed is basically max. however when
drilling lower speeds are better as the chips will weld to the inside of the
hole and make a mess. heavy feeds are good except when breaking out of a
cut. hope this is helpfull.
Dennis

Kathy

2003-08-01 04:23:08 UTC

Post by SPI01
Ultem 1000 machines well. It is brittle and will breakout like cast Iron or
acrylic. It turns exceptionally well and is resistant to soluble oils.
Maching dry will usually lead to chip welding and generally unacceptable
results. We have used both ultem 1000 and 2000 extensively for fuel cell
gas manifolds. Ultem 2000 is glass filled and typically sucks to machine,
this is probably the unidentified material in SVL's post. You should not
run into any major problems with 1000. Speeds and feeds are application
dependant, we use only carbide so speed is basically max. however when
drilling lower speeds are better as the chips will weld to the inside of the
hole and make a mess. heavy feeds are good except when breaking out of a
cut. hope this is helpfull.
Dennis

Thank you. That's the kind of reply I was hoping for. The parts I am making
are tiny. .205 is the largest dimension on either of the parts. Prototypes
so I will likely stand over it with an air gun. I have to drill .040 holes
on it and mill a pocket that leaves a .010 wall. No dimension toleranced
more than .002
The chunks out of the edge is what I feared would happen with it. I imagine
a lesser d.o.c. will leave a sharper edge. I'm going to try and cut some
tomorrow and see what happens.
I will report back for those of you taking notes.<G>

Nobody

2003-08-01 11:44:40 UTC

That's very good information. I could not have stated it better.

Rick

john

2003-08-01 01:15:02 UTC

I made some mold bushings out of it one time. Its brittle, and gets
real snotty if you run it too fast. I had to through drill and bore the
piece and it would start to gum up on the drill if I went too fast.
No problem when I drilled and tapped holes in the side of the tube.

I still use the scrap pieces on the steady rests when the brass is too
hard for the work.

John

Jim Short

2003-08-02 10:34:56 UTC

Hi Kathy,

Here is my experience machining (milling) ultem:

Flood or Mist coolant is fine. Do not machine dry. When it goes it blows.
Thin walls are dangerous because cutter can snag and pull the wall into cut.
I have had parts just explode. Material is grabby. But cuts nice. Engineers
commonly avoid sharp inside corners because cracks will start there. One
dufus (my hire) use locking helicoils in Ultem and a week later there were
cracks around all the holes.

Jim

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Excitable Boy

2003-08-02 15:48:46 UTC