Dump your CAM & get Cimatron

Post by m***@cin.net
Geeze, stop all the complaining. I can't do this or it should do this
or Mastercam should do this, Gibbs cam sucks(true), Solidcam is ok, or
bla, bla bla. There is no perfect cam software. But
Cimatron has been light years ahead of Mastercam for years. I started
with MC ver3 stoped useing MC on ver9. I have a little experience on
it. So I can say yes MC is the #`1 cam in the world, yes its the
easist to learn, it can do most everything, but it is cumbersome.
Cimatron IT13 (6yrs ago) could run circles around MC9. I've sat next
to guys using MC9 while I used IT13 doing the same work (3D surfacing
for injection molds) & just shook my head. Ive sat next to guys using
Delcam& asked , what are you doing? jumping thu hoops? Gibbs cam, man
I dont know why anyone would want it, unless its free?.
So it will cost 15K for a legal seat Cimatron? Its not that easy to
use. Old IT13 looked arckaic compared to all the pretty icons of other
software at the time. You cant learn Cimatron by sitting down &
pounding on it like MC. You will need training & then your problems
will be over.
Its too bad Cimatron did not market their product very well.
ok back to the complaining now old ladies.

Many folks confuse "easy to learn" with the best system for their
current and future needs. Once implemented, that system of choice
"works" for that user. For many it's akin to getting baptized one
religion then trying to convert to another.

--
Bill

vinny

2009-03-11 18:12:47 UTC

uhhh, I don't think Mastercam is easy to learn compared to other systems. I
say this from the experience of training others. It's extremely hard to use
mastercam right out of the box with no prior experience. The reason I blame
it on is it's a legacy system. It's a hodgepodge of code stacked on code
year after year.
From these years of upgrades they have lost the flow of the system. There
seems to be no flow.
Ususally to learn a cam system good you have to get inside it, figure out
the workflow the designers had in mind when writing the code. Once you get
there you can start to anticipate what commands do, or how to do it, usually
without any research.

Cimitron costs 15,000. the shop I'm at bought a floating licence for 2500$
that included a year of updates and 30 hrs training.
There's a big difference there. 6 times the cost.

From what Iv'e looked at one version ago, cimitron would not be my choice to
build molds if I had 15 grand to spend.
it has automatic electrode creation..yes..but seriously, unless your
trodes are relatively simple, or you don't need to edit anything, than it's
magical I guess.
my advice to anyone with 15,000 to spend:

Buy HsmWorks. 9,000
Buy a bad azz comp, 3,000
Spend 3,000 on training, customization, and learning curve.

Black Dragon

2009-03-11 19:48:52 UTC

Post by vinny
From what Iv'e looked at one version ago, cimitron would not be my choice to
build molds if I had 15 grand to spend.
it has automatic electrode creation..yes..but seriously, unless your
trodes are relatively simple, or you don't need to edit anything, than it's
magical I guess.
Buy HsmWorks. 9,000
Buy a bad azz comp, 3,000
Spend 3,000 on training, customization, and learning curve.

Mastercam is steaming pile of shit compared to Cimatron, it ain't worth
adding anything too.

Mastercam has toolpaths that are incompatible with each other, a work
coordinate system that has never worked right since it was introduced
late last century, nothing as basic to 3d machining as stock recognition
without having asshattery like writing stl files from within toolpath
verification which itself doesn't work worth a fuck half the time to
use in future remachining toolpaths, cursor blips that are actual
geometry (points) on the screen to help you fuck yourself easier, and I
could go on for a 1000+ line post but you should get the point.

The company I work for has more seats of Cimatron than Mastercam and I
for one am going to make the switch to Cimatron. I started some
tutorials before the holidays but since then have been working 60-70
hour weeks and learning more CAD/CAM isn't exactly at the top of my
priority list in what little free time I have currently. If we ever get
caught up, I'll get right back at the tutorials and will be looking
forward to the day when I can finally put 17 years of using Mastercrap
permanently behind me. :)

--
Black Dragon

Hickery Dickery Dock,
The mice ran up the clock,
The clock struck one,
The others escaped with minor injuries.

m***@cin.net

2009-03-12 00:29:08 UTC

Mastercam is steaming pile of shit compared to Cimatron, it ain't worth
adding anything too.
Mastercam has toolpaths that are incompatible with each other, a work
coordinate system that has never worked right since it was introduced
late last century, nothing as basic to 3d machining as stock recognition
without having asshattery like writing stl files from within toolpath
verification which itself doesn't work worth a fuck half the time to
use in future remachining toolpaths, cursor blips that are actual
geometry (points) on the screen to help you fuck yourself easier, and I
could go on for a 1000+ line post but you should get the point.
The company I work for has more seats of Cimatron than Mastercam and I
for one am going to make the switch to Cimatron. I started some
tutorials before the holidays but since then have been working 60-70
hour weeks and learning more CAD/CAM isn't exactly at the top of my
priority list in what little free time I have currently. If we ever get
caught up, I'll get right back at the tutorials and will be looking
forward to the day when I can finally put 17 years of using Mastercrap
permanently behind me. :)
--
Black Dragon
Hickery Dickery Dock,
The mice ran up the clock,
The clock struck one,
The others escaped with minor injuries.

Thank you, Now there's the real world experience.
Pro-E/Pro Man sucks. UG - well its ok but very constrictive.
All Cad & Cam software sucks. But if I had to use one again it would
be Cimatron. IT ver8 from the late 90's could run rings around current
MC10. God help you trying to find training on it, its no longer
supported. Only old war horses like me remember those days & we are
few & far between.
Cimatron Electrode works great, you just don't know how to use it.
Hell the people selling & demo ing it don't know how to use it. Thats
been Cimatrons problem, not enough qualified people familiar with the
product to train new ones. When I was trained, the best teachers were
Cimatron users/customers brought in from the field.
Its hard to make people understand & change after making a big
investment in the wrong software. Once your on the path & a lot of
time invested its too late.
Cimatron & software like old Camax have been around for a long time
now. The used to run only on Unix machines. Its tried & proven
throughout the world & you don't hear allot of complaints about it.
So go ahead & buy your HSM blow works or whatever its called with your
big azz cpu , your just another horse that has been lead to the water
but refuse to drink.

vinny@work

2009-03-12 02:25:04 UTC

Mastercam is steaming pile of shit compared to Cimatron, it ain't worth
adding anything too.
Mastercam has toolpaths that are incompatible with each other, a work
coordinate system that has never worked right since it was introduced
late last century, nothing as basic to 3d machining as stock recognition
without having asshattery like writing stl files from within toolpath
verification which itself doesn't work worth a fuck half the time to
use in future remachining toolpaths, cursor blips that are actual
geometry (points) on the screen to help you fuck yourself easier, and I
could go on for a 1000+ line post but you should get the point.
The company I work for has more seats of Cimatron than Mastercam and I
for one am going to make the switch to Cimatron. I started some
tutorials before the holidays but since then have been working 60-70
hour weeks and learning more CAD/CAM isn't exactly at the top of my
priority list in what little free time I have currently. If we ever get
caught up, I'll get right back at the tutorials and will be looking
forward to the day when I can finally put 17 years of using Mastercrap
permanently behind me. :)
--
Black Dragon
Hickery Dickery Dock,
The mice ran up the clock,
The clock struck one,
The others escaped with minor injuries.

Proctologically Violated©®

2009-03-13 14:04:38 UTC

This was a very astute observation, the dirty li'l secret of professional
programmers. Think Junk DNA.

Post by vinny
From these years of upgrades they have lost the flow of the system. There
seems to be no flow.

More astuteness.

Post by vinny
Ususally to learn a cam system good you have to get inside it, figure out
the workflow the designers had in mind when writing the code. Once you get
there you can start to anticipate what commands do, or how to do it,
usually without any research.

One man's intuition is another man's stumbling block. Go figger.
Even Einstein punked out on quantum mechanics. Proly rolling in his grave
over fuknString Theory.
--
Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav Congressman) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
Hey, Big Boy, is that a wad (of cash) in yer pocket, or are you just
glad to see me??

Post by vinny
Cimitron costs 15,000. the shop I'm at bought a floating licence for 2500$
that included a year of updates and 30 hrs training.
There's a big difference there. 6 times the cost.
From what Iv'e looked at one version ago, cimitron would not be my choice
to build molds if I had 15 grand to spend.
it has automatic electrode creation..yes..but seriously, unless your
trodes are relatively simple, or you don't need to edit anything, than
it's magical I guess.
Buy HsmWorks. 9,000
Buy a bad azz comp, 3,000
Spend 3,000 on training, customization, and learning curve.

vinny@work

2009-03-12 02:41:00 UTC

Ok, I can't resist.

Cimitron? I played with it last version. Had two seperate demos, etc...
Didn't like the electrode creation, it had limitations.

So you said thats because I didn't know how to use it. Maybe, but I know I
can make any electrode in solidworks faster than anybody on the planet using
cimitron. You couldn't fill in the blanks to drop a suare out as fast as
solidworks can extract it.

The machining was no way near as sweet as hsmworks.
I was able to be up and machining electrodes efficiently the first day on
hsmworks.
How many weeks do you need for cimitron.

A better investment yet:
HsmWorks integraded to solidworks...7500.00
Solidworks .........................................2500.00
badass computer.................................2000.00
Making code with hsmworks...............Priceless.
Give your boss the receipt showing you saved him 3,000.00$, and show him
within 24 hours of purchase everything is installed and electrodes are
machining.

Black Dragon

2009-03-12 10:33:39 UTC

Post by ***@work
HsmWorks integraded to solidworks...7500.00
Solidworks .........................................2500.00
badass computer.................................2000.00
Making code with hsmworks...............Priceless.
Give your boss the receipt showing you saved him 3,000.00$, and show him
within 24 hours of purchase everything is installed and electrodes are
machining.

Yeah, right. I don't have the slightest clue how to draw a fuckin' cube
in Solidworks. There's no way I'd be machining much of anything let alone
pulling and machining electrodes (what about EDM setup sheets that take
just a couple clicks of the mouse in Cimatron?) in 24 hours with that
setup. What a bunch of horse shit. And never mind the non-integrated
software from different vendors. All that does is give them someone else
to point the finger at when things go wrong and leaves you hung out to
dry when just one or more of them goes tits up.

No thanks. I'd rather stick with real, integrated CAD/CAM software than
go with a toy CAD program and some plugins.

--
Black Dragon

BARRY ... That was the most HEART-WARMING rendition of "I DID IT MY
WAY" I've ever heard!!

Proctologically Violated©®

2009-03-13 14:11:23 UTC

Yeah, right. I don't have the slightest clue how to draw a fuckin' cube
in Solidworks. There's no way I'd be machining much of anything let alone
pulling and machining electrodes (what about EDM setup sheets that take
just a couple clicks of the mouse in Cimatron?) in 24 hours with that
setup. What a bunch of horse shit. And never mind the non-integrated
software from different vendors. All that does is give them someone else
to point the finger at when things go wrong and leaves you hung out to
dry when just one or more of them goes tits up.
No thanks. I'd rather stick with real, integrated CAD/CAM software than
go with a toy CAD program and some plugins.

Vinny's point is a good one, at least the intent.
However, your point is the unfortunate reality, which how we are held by the
effing balls, with this effing complexity.

Fuuuuck, you cain't even *lower the idle* on yer own effing car anymore, AND
the mpg's are no better than in 1971.
What a fukn hoot. Someone out/up there has one g-d wicked sense of
humor.....
--
Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav Congressman) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
Hey, Big Boy, is that a wad (of cash) in yer pocket, or are you just
glad to see me??

Post by Black Dragon
--
Black Dragon
BARRY ... That was the most HEART-WARMING rendition of "I DID IT MY
WAY" I've ever heard!!

vinny

2009-03-13 17:31:59 UTC

Yeah, right. I don't have the slightest clue how to draw a fuckin' cube
in Solidworks. There's no way I'd be machining much of anything let alone
pulling and machining electrodes (what about EDM setup sheets that take
just a couple clicks of the mouse in Cimatron?) in 24 hours with that
setup. What a bunch of horse shit. And never mind the non-integrated
software from different vendors. All that does is give them someone else
to point the finger at when things go wrong and leaves you hung out to
dry when just one or more of them goes tits up.
No thanks. I'd rather stick with real, integrated CAD/CAM software than
go with a toy CAD program and some plugins.

lol...toy cad program?

Black Dragon

2009-03-13 18:30:34 UTC

Yeah, right. I don't have the slightest clue how to draw a fuckin' cube
in Solidworks. There's no way I'd be machining much of anything let alone
pulling and machining electrodes (what about EDM setup sheets that take
just a couple clicks of the mouse in Cimatron?) in 24 hours with that
setup. What a bunch of horse shit. And never mind the non-integrated
software from different vendors. All that does is give them someone else
to point the finger at when things go wrong and leaves you hung out to
dry when just one or more of them goes tits up.
No thanks. I'd rather stick with real, integrated CAD/CAM software than
go with a toy CAD program and some plugins.

lol...toy cad program?

That's what I said. It's kind of limited to, you know, working with
Solids as its name implies.

--
Black Dragon

Congratulations are in order for Tom Reid.

He says he just found out he is the winner of the 2021 Psychic of the
Year award.

jon_banquer

2009-03-14 02:23:37 UTC

Post by Black Dragon
That's what I said. It's kind of limited to, you know, working with
Solids as its name implies.

It's limited because it can't work with non-native solids because it's
a history based modeler with no real direct modeling tools like you
get with NX 6 with Synchronous Technology or Solid Edge with
Synchronous Technology or in a pure direct modeler like CoCreate or
SpaceClaim. As a result you have to remodel any non-native solid if
you wish to make major changes to the model in SolidWorks. Vinny, like
most others, doesn't seem to think this is any big deal. It is a big
deal. Even the lazy NX programmer who can't be bothered to explain
anything about NX in detail mentions how much time it saves him in
this thread.

Its too bad PTC hasn't created quality built in CAM for CoCreate. So
far PTC barely seems to have a clue one how to market CoCreate.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

vinny@work

2009-03-14 03:31:19 UTC

Yeah, right. I don't have the slightest clue how to draw a fuckin' cube
in Solidworks. There's no way I'd be machining much of anything let alone
pulling and machining electrodes (what about EDM setup sheets that take
just a couple clicks of the mouse in Cimatron?) in 24 hours with that
setup. What a bunch of horse shit. And never mind the non-integrated
software from different vendors. All that does is give them someone else
to point the finger at when things go wrong and leaves you hung out to
dry when just one or more of them goes tits up.
No thanks. I'd rather stick with real, integrated CAD/CAM software than
go with a toy CAD program and some plugins.

lol...toy cad program?

That's what I said. It's kind of limited to, you know, working with
Solids as its name implies.

Well, in all fairness it's not limited to solids. It does surfacing, and can
even do 2d work, as well as act like a grab and pull modeler.
However, I'm not a fan of solids, I prefer wireframe and surfaces. I never
liked the idea of being "constrained" or having to design in order. It's
real cool and all, but I like to cheat. I use mastercam over solidworks a
lot just because there's no rules.The cam system cant see things under other
things, so why not use that to my advantage.

m***@cin.net

2009-03-15 02:50:52 UTC

Yeah, right. I don't have the slightest clue how to draw a fuckin' cube
in Solidworks. There's no way I'd be machining much of anything let alone
pulling and machining electrodes (what about EDM setup sheets that take
just a couple clicks of the mouse in Cimatron?) in 24 hours with that
setup. What a bunch of horse shit. And never mind the non-integrated
software from different vendors. All that does is give them someone else
to point the finger at when things go wrong and leaves you hung out to
dry when just one or more of them goes tits up.
No thanks. I'd rather stick with real, integrated CAD/CAM software than
go with a toy CAD program and some plugins.

lol...toy cad program?

That's what I said. It's kind of limited to, you know, working with
Solids as its name implies.

vinny

2009-03-15 17:38:26 UTC

Yeah, right. I don't have the slightest clue how to draw a fuckin' cube
in Solidworks. There's no way I'd be machining much of anything let alone
pulling and machining electrodes (what about EDM setup sheets that take
just a couple clicks of the mouse in Cimatron?) in 24 hours with that
setup. What a bunch of horse shit. And never mind the non-integrated
software from different vendors. All that does is give them someone else
to point the finger at when things go wrong and leaves you hung out to
dry when just one or more of them goes tits up.
No thanks. I'd rather stick with real, integrated CAD/CAM software than
go with a toy CAD program and some plugins.

lol...toy cad program?

That's what I said. It's kind of limited to, you know, working with
Solids as its name implies.

If your a wireframe & surface head, you'd love Cimatron IT13(its only
6 yrs old) There is nothing that I have found it cant surface model,
fillet, blend -cheat ect.. Not having to be concerned with silly
things like surface normals & drive surfaces. Who the f cares about
that shit. Oh sorry masterscamers do. & I did at one point before I
knew about that unheard of Israeli software called Cima what? Even
today I tell someone about Cimatron & they say what? never heard of
it. Well its one of the best keep secrets in the US mold industry. Oh
my mistake again, there is no more mold industry here. I'm glad to
have escaped that trade after 30 wonderful years. But then again I
could be siting in Beijing right now for 6 week stints with my "own"
shop training 100 Chinese the right way to design & build molds for
around a buck & 1/2 a year. No sorry I'm an American Toolmaker - I'll
just go back to basics. I tell people I'm a GM. They say wow! ya
Glorified Machinist. I stared out cranking Bridgeport handles & I'll
go out cranking Bridgeport handles. It aint so bad. Hey I hooked my
cordless drill to the lathe compound for power feeding a 12deg angle
about 4" long. Who needs a CNC lathe or a taper attachment like the
old Logan lathes had.
***********
We are definetely losing when we switch over from manual lathes and mills to
cnc. I notice when I go to 100% cnc shops, lots of non thinkers in those
places.

We should turn this thread into manaul machine tricks.

****

You can cut a 3 foot radius on a lathe using the tailstock and a three foot
long rod. Jam the rod between the tailstock and the saddle. Then when you
dial in the crossfeed the rod will push the carrage towards the chuck. Using
your hand to dial the long feed into the rod to keep it tight you can dial
in or out. If you go all the way and use a ball mill to make a dimple in the
tailstock and the carriage, and the rod has the same ball on the end, it
will repeat enough for you to dial in the tailstock to take multiple cuts.
Put the rod between the carriage and the head of the machine under the
chuck and you can do the opposite radius. If you need to do a bigger radius,
wheel something heavy up to the lathe and put the rod between the carriage
and the thing you moved in.
The trick is in the length of the rod.
*****

Proctologically Violated©®

2009-03-15 18:03:38 UTC

--

Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav Congressman) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
Hey, Big Boy, is that a wad (of cash) in yer pocket, or are you just
glad to see me??

Yeah, right. I don't have the slightest clue how to draw a fuckin' cube
in Solidworks. There's no way I'd be machining much of anything let alone
pulling and machining electrodes (what about EDM setup sheets that take
just a couple clicks of the mouse in Cimatron?) in 24 hours with that
setup. What a bunch of horse shit. And never mind the non-integrated
software from different vendors. All that does is give them someone else
to point the finger at when things go wrong and leaves you hung out to
dry when just one or more of them goes tits up.
No thanks. I'd rather stick with real, integrated CAD/CAM software than
go with a toy CAD program and some plugins.

lol...toy cad program?

That's what I said. It's kind of limited to, you know, working with
Solids as its name implies.

AND go back to graph paper!
--
Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav Congressman) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
Hey, Big Boy, is that a wad (of cash) in yer pocket, or are you just
glad to see me??

Post by m***@cin.net
****
You can cut a 3 foot radius on a lathe using the tailstock and a three
foot long rod. Jam the rod between the tailstock and the saddle. Then when
you dial in the crossfeed the rod will push the carrage towards the chuck.
Using your hand to dial the long feed into the rod to keep it tight you
can dial in or out. If you go all the way and use a ball mill to make a
dimple in the tailstock and the carriage, and the rod has the same ball on
the end, it will repeat enough for you to dial in the tailstock to take
multiple cuts.
Put the rod between the carriage and the head of the machine under the
chuck and you can do the opposite radius. If you need to do a bigger
radius, wheel something heavy up to the lathe and put the rod between the
carriage and the thing you moved in.
The trick is in the length of the rod.
*****

vinny

2009-03-15 18:20:44 UTC

Post by Proctologically ViolatedÂ©Â®
--
Mr. PV'd
Hey, Big Boy, is that a wad (of cash) in yer pocket, or are you just
glad to see me??

Post by ***@work
HsmWorks integraded to solidworks...7500.00
Solidworks .........................................2500.00
badass computer.................................2000.00
Making code with hsmworks...............Priceless.
Give your boss the receipt showing you saved him 3,000.00$, and
show
him
within 24 hours of purchase everything is installed and electrodes are
machining.

Yeah, right. I don't have the slightest clue how to draw a fuckin' cube
in Solidworks. There's no way I'd be machining much of anything let alone
pulling and machining electrodes (what about EDM setup sheets that take
just a couple clicks of the mouse in Cimatron?) in 24 hours with that
setup. What a bunch of horse shit. And never mind the non-integrated
software from different vendors. All that does is give them someone else
to point the finger at when things go wrong and leaves you hung out to
dry when just one or more of them goes tits up.
No thanks. I'd rather stick with real, integrated CAD/CAM software than
go with a toy CAD program and some plugins.

lol...toy cad program?

That's what I said. It's kind of limited to, you know, working with
Solids as its name implies.

AND go back to graph paper!

You make a joke, but last week (i work nights) I was working in the edm dept
and I seen on the table an electrode drawn on graph paper. It was a friggen
diameter with a chamfer on the end. Real friggen elaborate too.

And there's no money for raises...go figure?

Black Dragon

2009-03-12 10:45:00 UTC

Post by ***@work
Cimitron? I played with it last version. Had two seperate demos, etc...
Didn't like the electrode creation, it had limitations.

First demo I saw of Cimatron was around 5 years ago roughly around the
time when "E" superseded "IT". They demoed one of our extremely complex
parts, a part they had never seen before and had the thing mostly split
(vertical walls require manual intervention) and some electrodes pulled
(including automated EDM setup sheets) in a time frame none of us (tinu)
watching the demo thought possible. I was sold way back then and
watching Cimatron blow away Mastercam on a day to day basis today has me
yearning for more. :)

If you saw limitations, it was certainly with the people giving the demo
because it sure as hell isn't with the software.

--
Black Dragon

BARRY ... That was the most HEART-WARMING rendition of "I DID IT MY
WAY" I've ever heard!!

jon_banquer

2009-03-12 02:39:08 UTC

Post by m***@cin.net
Geeze, stop all the complaining. I can't do this or it should do this
or Mastercam should do this, , Solidcam is ok, or
bla, bla bla. There is no perfect cam software. But
Cimatron has been light years ahead of Mastercam for years. I started
with MC ver3 stoped useing MC on ver9. I have a little experience on
it. So I can say yes MC is the #`1 cam in the world, yes its the
easist to learn, it can do most everything, but it is cumbersome.
Cimatron IT13 (6yrs ago) could run circles around MC9. I've sat next
to guys using MC9 while I used IT13 doing the same work (3D surfacing
for injection molds) & just shook my head. Ive sat next to guys using
Delcam& asked , what are you doing? jumping thu hoops? Gibbs cam, man
I dont know why anyone would want it, unless its free?.
So it will cost 15K for a legal seat Cimatron? Its not that easy to
use. Old IT13 looked arckaic compared to all the pretty icons of other
software at the time. You cant learn Cimatron by sitting down &
pounding on it like MC. You will need training & then your problems
will be over.
Its too bad Cimatron did not market their product very well.
ok back to the complaining now old ladies.

It's been posted in this newsgroup by two regulars, one of who has
already posted in this thread, that once a shop has purchased a CADCAM
system they don't switch CADCAM systems because of their legacy
programs. Like much of what is posted in this newsgroup that's total
B.S.

You are correct, Cimatron is very poorly marketed. If Cimatron were
marketed properly they would target Mastercam users and show that when
it comes to something as basic as drilling holes Mastercam falls to
pieces. Cimatron's drilling is apparently much better thought out than
Mastercam's. See my blog for details on this.

The more competitive machining gets the more shops will start
switching to CADCAM systems that can get the job done quickly and
efficiently. It's actually already happening as many Mastercam and
Gibbscam users have started to switch. Most HSMWorks users are former
Mastercam users and this includes former San Diego CADCAM owner
Charles Davis who now sells HSMWorks where as he use to sell
Mastercam. It also includes 10 year Mastercam employee Matt Soucy who
now works for SolidCAM. SoildCAM, like Cimatron is an Israeli company
and SolidCAM has a ton of former Mastercam users. While Mastercam X
has continued to be a buggy program, SolidCAM has gotten better and
better and the 2009 release in my opinion is going to get many more
Mastercam and Gibbscam users to switch.

The FACT is that Mastercam is a very buggy program that costs shops
lots to lost time. Here is an example from work today. One of our 5
seats of Mastercam would not post the feedrate correctly and instead
posted a feedrate for every machining operation at 99.9999. I needed
to completely reboot the computer to get Mastercam X2 MR2 SP1 to post
the G code correctly. Last week on another machine creating a new WCS
stopped working completely until I rebooted the computer. This is
typical Mastercam behavior in X2 MR2 SP1, X3 and X3 MU1 and you can
bet your last dollar that lying slimeballs like James Meyette, John
Paris or Matt Finley will never post this kind of truth on the e-
Mastercam clique of idiots.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com/

b***@aol.com

2009-03-12 05:38:08 UTC

On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:39:08 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
I needed
to completely reboot the computer to get Mastercam X2 MR2 SP1 to post
the G code correctly. Last week on another machine creating a new WCS
stopped working completely until I rebooted the computer. This is
typical Mastercam behavior in X2 MR2 SP1, X3 and X3 MU1

Jon,

Thought you said your company was switching to Siemens CAD/CAM NX-ST
after the first of the year, what happened?

Tom

Cliff

2009-03-12 09:02:41 UTC

Post by jon_banquer
something as basic as drilling holes Mastercam falls to
pieces

Tried reading the instructions or getting training?
Nope.

--
Cliff

Neurosis

2009-03-12 14:37:18 UTC

Post by b***@aol.com
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:39:08 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
something as basic as drilling holes Mastercam falls to
pieces

Tried reading the instructions or getting training?
Nope.

I'll back that statement. Mastercam blows for drilling cycles. I ran
Cimatron for 15 years prior to our shop switching to Mastercam and i was
severely dissapointed. We switched to Mastercam four years ago and it has
been nothing but a dissapointment to me.

Black Dragon

2009-03-12 14:51:12 UTC

Post by Neurosis
I'll back that statement. Mastercam blows for drilling cycles. I ran
Cimatron for 15 years prior to our shop switching to Mastercam and i was
severely dissapointed. We switched to Mastercam four years ago and it has
been nothing but a dissapointment to me.

No first hand experience myself yet, but our Cimatron gurus were showing
me how it automatically adjusts feed rates at intersections when drilling
intersecting water lines in molds for example. That alone is priceless
when you do a lot of unattended / semi-attended mold machining. No such
functionality like that in Mastercam without creating separate
operations for each hole.

--
Black Dragon

Q: What's the difference between USL and the Titanic?
A: The Titanic had a band.

Scott

2009-03-12 15:34:39 UTC

Post by Neurosis
I'll back that statement. Mastercam blows for drilling cycles. I ran
Cimatron for 15 years prior to our shop switching to Mastercam and i
was severely dissapointed. We switched to Mastercam four years ago
and it has been nothing but a dissapointment to me.

No first hand experience myself yet, but our Cimatron gurus were
showing me how it automatically adjusts feed rates at intersections
when drilling intersecting water lines in molds for example. That
alone is priceless when you do a lot of unattended / semi-attended
mold machining. No such functionality like that in Mastercam without
creating separate operations for each hole.

Like peck drilling without ripping the lips off the drill bit. In order to
compensate we either have to cut and paste for hours, giving each bite a
dwell, or take the drill bits and put a vertical flat on each bit with
stones, by hand. Otherwise you are puuling the bit out while it is producing
a chip, then jamming the bit back into an interrupted surface. Eats drills,
one of the most common and simple operations, yet no one at Mastercam seems
to be able to write a path program with chip breaking and dwell, with
operator choice of time or spindle revs) on each peck.

Mastercam has a marketing monolith, a juggernaut. Dassault puts out
Solidworks and Catia, both of which are clunky.

I started with APT and COMPACT on a Schlumberger workstation running two 10"
floppies and two 5.5" floppies (Z80 with 8 megs of RAM took a half hour to
boot), then Bridgeport EZCAM, then Mastercam 6. That and a buck and a
quarter gets me a cup of coffee.

I used to be able to *read* BCD tape, ran a Bridgeport with a Slosyn 7 (we
called it a slo seven) 2.5 axis with pnuematic tape readers and pnuematic
3rd axis, most CNC programmers today dont even know what that means. Tool
changers, HAH! Bar pushers and chip pullers.

Been fighting the shit ever since. CIMCO editor has been my best friend, it
allows post processor editing at ease as well.

I have played with Catia, UGS, Solidworks, have ten years in with Inventor,
20 with Autocad, you guys have motivated me to try out Cimatron.

Joe788

2009-03-12 15:59:27 UTC

Post by Neurosis
I'll back that statement. Mastercam blows for drilling cycles. I ran
Cimatron for 15 years prior to our shop switching to Mastercam and i
was severely dissapointed. We switched to Mastercam four years ago
and it has been nothing but a dissapointment to me.

No first hand experience myself yet, but our Cimatron gurus were
showing me how it automatically adjusts feed rates at intersections
when drilling intersecting water lines in molds for example. That
alone is priceless when you do a lot of unattended / semi-attended
mold machining. No such functionality like that in Mastercam without
creating separate operations for each hole.

How Banquerific. Have you ever gone to the emastercam forum and asked
for help?

12 seconds worth of searching for "drill cycle dwell" and I found a
person who wanted the exact same thing as you, and created a post mod
to do exactly that, even on a control that doesn't support dwells on a
peck drilling cycle.

Scott

2009-03-12 16:11:34 UTC

Post by Joe788
How Banquerific. Have you ever gone to the emastercam forum and asked
for help?

No, I did what I had to do to get the job done without eating drills.

Many of us dont have the time.

Post by Joe788
12 seconds worth of searching for "drill cycle dwell" and I found a
person who wanted the exact same thing as you, and created a post mod
to do exactly that, even on a control that doesn't support dwells on a
peck drilling cycle.

Post it.

Instead of being confrontational and caustic, make your case and post the
mod or a link to it.

Why cant the guys who charge 25k for a seat make the simple post mod?

Joe788

2009-03-12 16:19:56 UTC

Post by Joe788
How Banquerific. Have you ever gone to the emastercam forum and asked
for help?

No, I did what I had to do to get the job done without eating drills.
Many of us dont have the time.

If you had spent 15 minutes getting the type of code you wanted output
automatically, how much time would it have saved you that day, week,
month, year?

Post it.
Instead of being confrontational and caustic, make your case and post the
mod or a link to it.

if drillcyc$ = 10, # coolant thru extra length drill cycle
[
savdrl_gcode = gcode$
# -- peckclr$ = peck/Dwell depth
# -- retr$ = Additional dwell depth
temp_speed = peck1$ # Drilling RPM
temp2_1 = peck2$ # Entry depth
temp2_2 = tosz$ - peckclr$
pdrlcommonb
pbld, n$, pdrlxy, e$
pbld, n$, refht$, e$
pbld, n$, sg01, "Z", no_spc$, *temp2_1, *plunge, e$
pbld, n$, *temp_speed, pspindle2, e$
pbld, n$, sg04, "P2000", e$
while temp2_2 > depth$,
[
pbld, n$, sg01, "Z", no_spc$, *temp2_2, *feed, e$
pbld, n$, sg04, *dwell$, e$
temp2_2 = temp2_2 - retr$
]
pbld, n$, sg01, depth$, feed, e$
pbld, n$, *speed, pspindle2, e$
pbld, n$, sg01, *refht$, *retract, e$
pcom_movea
temp_speed = 0
temp2_1 = 0
temp2_2 = 0
]

fmt 2 temp2_1 #temp number format 2 -- Decimal,
absolute, 4/3 place
fmt 2 temp2_2 #temp number format 2 -- Decimal,
absolute, 4/3 place
fmt S 4 temp_speed # Temp speed

fmt 2 slot # 20004 Parameter line
fmt 2 tool_type
fmt 2 matl_type
fmt 2 corner_rad_type
fmt 2 diameter
fmt 2 corner_rad
fmt 2 threads
fmt A 2 tip_angle
fmt 2 dia_off
fmt 2 len_off
fmt 2 tool_feed
fmt F 15 plunge #<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
fmt F 15 retract
fmt 2 rpm
fmt 2 coolant1
fmt 2 n_flutes1
fmt A 2 tip_angle_ch

pparameter$ # Run parameter table
if prmcode$ = 20004, slot = rpar(sparameter$, 16)

[drill cycle 11]
1. "Extra length coolant thru drill"
7. "Drilling RPM"
8. "Entry depth (ABS)"
9. "Peck/dwell depth (INC)"
10. "Additional 'peck' depth"
11. ""

[drill cycle descriptions]
1. "G81/G82 - Drill/Counterbore"
2. "G83 - Peck Drill"
3. "G73 - Chip Break"
4. "G84/G74 - Tap"
5. "G85/G89 - Bore (feed out)"
6. "G86 - Bore (stop, rapid out)"
7. "G76 - Fine Bore (shift)"
9. "Subprogram Call"
10. "Gun Drill -- Standard"
11. "Extra length coolant thru drill" #<<<<<<<<<<
12. "reaming cycle"
13. "Reduced entry feed drill"
14. "Probe fixt edge finding"
15. "Prb fixt boss/bore finding"
16. "Prb fixt web/pocket finding"
17. "Probe Inspection Cycles"
18. "Probe Inspection Results"
19. "Angled edge measure and G68"

Here is how it looks:

O4163
(NO.21 EXTRA LENGTH 30XD COOLANT THRU CARBIDE DRILL RIGHT SIDE)
IF[#153EQ#0]GOTO1
N10140 G00 G90 X.74 Y-2.18 (B270.) G59
N10150 G43 H45 Z.2 S1562 M[#933]
N10160 Z.05
N10170 G01 Z-.527F18.74
N10180 S9610 M[#933]
N10190 G04 P2000
N10200 G01 Z-4.82F57.66
N10210 G04 P250
N10220 G01 Z-5.3289
N10230 S1562 M[#933]
N10240 G01 Z.05 F28.12
N10250 G00 X.99 Y-.75
N10260 Z-.145
N10270 G01 Z-.722F18.74
N10280 S9610 M[#933]
N10290 G04 P2000
N10300 G01 Z-5.015F57.66
N10310 G04 P250
N10320 G01 Z-5.7139
N10330 S1562 M[#933]
N10340 G01 Z-.145 F28.12
N10350 G00 Z6.625
N1 M99

Post by Scott
Why cant the guys who charge 25k for a seat make the simple post mod?

I have no idea. Perhaps after your reseller got your money, he wasn't
interested in doing any real work to help you? My reseller has always
been helpful, but I've never really asked them for anything difficult.

Proctologically Violated©®

2009-03-12 16:45:54 UTC

Post by Joe788
How Banquerific. Have you ever gone to the emastercam forum and asked
for help?

No, I did what I had to do to get the job done without eating drills.
Many of us dont have the time.

If you had spent 15 minutes getting the type of code you wanted output
automatically, how much time would it have saved you that day, week,
month, year?

Post it.
Instead of being confrontational and caustic, make your case and post the
mod or a link to it.

if drillcyc$ = 10, # coolant thru extra length drill cycle
[
savdrl_gcode = gcode$
# -- peckclr$ = peck/Dwell depth
# -- retr$ = Additional dwell depth
temp_speed = peck1$ # Drilling RPM
temp2_1 = peck2$ # Entry depth
temp2_2 = tosz$ - peckclr$
pdrlcommonb
pbld, n$, pdrlxy, e$
pbld, n$, refht$, e$
pbld, n$, sg01, "Z", no_spc$, *temp2_1, *plunge, e$
pbld, n$, *temp_speed, pspindle2, e$
pbld, n$, sg04, "P2000", e$
while temp2_2 > depth$,
[
pbld, n$, sg01, "Z", no_spc$, *temp2_2, *feed, e$
pbld, n$, sg04, *dwell$, e$
temp2_2 = temp2_2 - retr$
]
pbld, n$, sg01, depth$, feed, e$
pbld, n$, *speed, pspindle2, e$
pbld, n$, sg01, *refht$, *retract, e$
pcom_movea
temp_speed = 0
temp2_1 = 0
temp2_2 = 0
]
fmt 2 temp2_1 #temp number format 2 -- Decimal,
absolute, 4/3 place
fmt 2 temp2_2 #temp number format 2 -- Decimal,
absolute, 4/3 place
fmt S 4 temp_speed # Temp speed
fmt 2 slot # 20004 Parameter line
fmt 2 tool_type
fmt 2 matl_type
fmt 2 corner_rad_type
fmt 2 diameter
fmt 2 corner_rad
fmt 2 threads
fmt A 2 tip_angle
fmt 2 dia_off
fmt 2 len_off
fmt 2 tool_feed
fmt F 15 plunge #<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
fmt F 15 retract
fmt 2 rpm
fmt 2 coolant1
fmt 2 n_flutes1
fmt A 2 tip_angle_ch
pparameter$ # Run parameter table
if prmcode$ = 20004, slot = rpar(sparameter$, 16)
[drill cycle 11]
1. "Extra length coolant thru drill"
7. "Drilling RPM"
8. "Entry depth (ABS)"
9. "Peck/dwell depth (INC)"
10. "Additional 'peck' depth"
11. ""
[drill cycle descriptions]
1. "G81/G82 - Drill/Counterbore"
2. "G83 - Peck Drill"
3. "G73 - Chip Break"
4. "G84/G74 - Tap"
5. "G85/G89 - Bore (feed out)"
6. "G86 - Bore (stop, rapid out)"
7. "G76 - Fine Bore (shift)"
9. "Subprogram Call"
10. "Gun Drill -- Standard"
11. "Extra length coolant thru drill" #<<<<<<<<<<
12. "reaming cycle"
13. "Reduced entry feed drill"
14. "Probe fixt edge finding"
15. "Prb fixt boss/bore finding"
16. "Prb fixt web/pocket finding"
17. "Probe Inspection Cycles"
18. "Probe Inspection Results"
19. "Angled edge measure and G68"
O4163
(NO.21 EXTRA LENGTH 30XD COOLANT THRU CARBIDE DRILL RIGHT SIDE)
IF[#153EQ#0]GOTO1
N10140 G00 G90 X.74 Y-2.18 (B270.) G59
N10150 G43 H45 Z.2 S1562 M[#933]
N10160 Z.05
N10170 G01 Z-.527F18.74
N10180 S9610 M[#933]
N10190 G04 P2000
N10200 G01 Z-4.82F57.66
N10210 G04 P250
N10220 G01 Z-5.3289
N10230 S1562 M[#933]
N10240 G01 Z.05 F28.12
N10250 G00 X.99 Y-.75
N10260 Z-.145
N10270 G01 Z-.722F18.74
N10280 S9610 M[#933]
N10290 G04 P2000
N10300 G01 Z-5.015F57.66
N10310 G04 P250
N10320 G01 Z-5.7139
N10330 S1562 M[#933]
N10340 G01 Z-.145 F28.12
N10350 G00 Z6.625
N1 M99

Goodgawd.....
--
Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav Congressman) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
Hey, Big Boy, is that a wad (of cash) in yer pocket, or are you just
glad to see me??

Post by Scott
Why cant the guys who charge 25k for a seat make the simple post mod?

Black Dragon

2009-03-12 17:21:40 UTC

Post by Proctologically ViolatedÂ©Â®

Post by Joe788
How Banquerific. Have you ever gone to the emastercam forum and asked
for help?

No, I did what I had to do to get the job done without eating drills.
Many of us dont have the time.

If you had spent 15 minutes getting the type of code you wanted output
automatically, how much time would it have saved you that day, week,
month, year?

Post it.
Instead of being confrontational and caustic, make your case and post the
mod or a link to it.

if drillcyc$ = 10, # coolant thru extra length drill cycle
[
savdrl_gcode = gcode$
# -- peckclr$ = peck/Dwell depth
# -- retr$ = Additional dwell depth
temp_speed = peck1$ # Drilling RPM
temp2_1 = peck2$ # Entry depth
temp2_2 = tosz$ - peckclr$
pdrlcommonb
pbld, n$, pdrlxy, e$
pbld, n$, refht$, e$
pbld, n$, sg01, "Z", no_spc$, *temp2_1, *plunge, e$
pbld, n$, *temp_speed, pspindle2, e$
pbld, n$, sg04, "P2000", e$
while temp2_2 > depth$,
[
pbld, n$, sg01, "Z", no_spc$, *temp2_2, *feed, e$
pbld, n$, sg04, *dwell$, e$
temp2_2 = temp2_2 - retr$
]
pbld, n$, sg01, depth$, feed, e$
pbld, n$, *speed, pspindle2, e$
pbld, n$, sg01, *refht$, *retract, e$
pcom_movea
temp_speed = 0
temp2_1 = 0
temp2_2 = 0
]
fmt 2 temp2_1 #temp number format 2 -- Decimal,
absolute, 4/3 place
fmt 2 temp2_2 #temp number format 2 -- Decimal,
absolute, 4/3 place
fmt S 4 temp_speed # Temp speed
fmt 2 slot # 20004 Parameter line
fmt 2 tool_type
fmt 2 matl_type
fmt 2 corner_rad_type
fmt 2 diameter
fmt 2 corner_rad
fmt 2 threads
fmt A 2 tip_angle
fmt 2 dia_off
fmt 2 len_off
fmt 2 tool_feed
fmt F 15 plunge #<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
fmt F 15 retract
fmt 2 rpm
fmt 2 coolant1
fmt 2 n_flutes1
fmt A 2 tip_angle_ch
pparameter$ # Run parameter table
if prmcode$ = 20004, slot = rpar(sparameter$, 16)
[drill cycle 11]
1. "Extra length coolant thru drill"
7. "Drilling RPM"
8. "Entry depth (ABS)"
9. "Peck/dwell depth (INC)"
10. "Additional 'peck' depth"
11. ""
[drill cycle descriptions]
1. "G81/G82 - Drill/Counterbore"
2. "G83 - Peck Drill"
3. "G73 - Chip Break"
4. "G84/G74 - Tap"
5. "G85/G89 - Bore (feed out)"
6. "G86 - Bore (stop, rapid out)"
7. "G76 - Fine Bore (shift)"
9. "Subprogram Call"
10. "Gun Drill -- Standard"
11. "Extra length coolant thru drill" #<<<<<<<<<<
12. "reaming cycle"
13. "Reduced entry feed drill"
14. "Probe fixt edge finding"
15. "Prb fixt boss/bore finding"
16. "Prb fixt web/pocket finding"
17. "Probe Inspection Cycles"
18. "Probe Inspection Results"
19. "Angled edge measure and G68"
O4163
(NO.21 EXTRA LENGTH 30XD COOLANT THRU CARBIDE DRILL RIGHT SIDE)
IF[#153EQ#0]GOTO1
N10140 G00 G90 X.74 Y-2.18 (B270.) G59
N10150 G43 H45 Z.2 S1562 M[#933]
N10160 Z.05
N10170 G01 Z-.527F18.74
N10180 S9610 M[#933]
N10190 G04 P2000
N10200 G01 Z-4.82F57.66
N10210 G04 P250
N10220 G01 Z-5.3289
N10230 S1562 M[#933]
N10240 G01 Z.05 F28.12
N10250 G00 X.99 Y-.75
N10260 Z-.145
N10270 G01 Z-.722F18.74
N10280 S9610 M[#933]
N10290 G04 P2000
N10300 G01 Z-5.015F57.66
N10310 G04 P250
N10320 G01 Z-5.7139
N10330 S1562 M[#933]
N10340 G01 Z-.145 F28.12
N10350 G00 Z6.625
N1 M99

Goodgawd.....

Popping a boner thinking about plonking $15K down on a CAD/CAM system
are you....?

--
Black Dragon

He: Do you like Kipling?
She: Oh, you naughty boy, I don't know! I've never kippled!

b***@aol.com

2009-03-12 18:23:12 UTC

On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:21:40 +0000 (UTC), Black Dragon

Post by Black Dragon
Popping a boner thinking about plonking $15K down on a CAD/CAM system
are you....?
Black Dragon

LOL.....

Scott

2009-03-12 19:02:44 UTC

Post by Black Dragon
Popping a boner thinking about plonking $15K down on a CAD/CAM system
are you....?

<cough>

Scott

2009-03-12 16:55:16 UTC

Joe788 wrote:

<el snippo>

Thanks for making our point.

Joe788

2009-03-12 17:13:43 UTC

Post by Scott
<el snippo>
Thanks for making our point.

You *do* realize that by pasting that snippet into your post, the
"Extra Length Coolant Thru Drill" cycle becomes just another typical
drop down selection in MC, don't you? It's a one time deal.

Cliff

2009-03-15 15:34:31 UTC

Post by Scott
Why cant the guys who charge 25k for a seat make the simple post mod?

No doubt they can if you pay them.
Did you offer to? Better than learning yourself, right?

--
Cliff

Black Dragon

2009-03-12 16:42:49 UTC

I was going to post that it probably was possible by defining a custom
drill cycle or with a vb script but you beat me to it. But that is not
something a typical user could do and more often than not it'd have to
be purchased from a reseller.

Drilling is indeed customizable in Mastercam. However, the point still
stands, and that is the base drilling package sucks monkey dick.

Have you meddled around at all with Mastercam's FBM? The "feeling" I get
from reading the postings by most of the eMastercam.com fanboi's is that
it isn't yet worth shit so I've avoided it so far. Any thoughts besides
go fuck myself? :)

--
Black Dragon

I have ways of making money that you know nothing of.
-- John D. Rockefeller

Joe788

2009-03-12 17:09:01 UTC

I was going to post that it probably was possible by defining a custom
drill cycle or with a vb script but you beat me to it. But that is not
something a typical user could do and more often than not it'd have to
be purchased from a reseller.
Drilling is indeed customizable in Mastercam. However, the point still
stands, and that is the base drilling package sucks monkey dick.
Have you meddled around at all with Mastercam's FBM? The "feeling" I get
from reading the postings by most of the eMastercam.com fanboi's is that
it isn't yet worth shit so I've avoided it so far. Any thoughts besides
go fuck myself? :)
--
Black Dragon
I have ways of making money that you know nothing of.
-- John D. Rockefeller

I haven't done anything with the FBM, never even clicked on the icon.
I can't imagine anybody wanting to deal with that nonsense. I guess if
I had 100 different, (but very similar) complex microwave parts to
machine, it might be worth giving it a shot. As it is, each time we
start on a new job, everything about it is so drastically different
from other jobs, it's not likely that any pre-defined routines are
going to apply properly. Even if they only need minor tweaks, that can
end up being a monumental task. I'm working on a part right now with
over 250 operations in the manager. It's better to just go through and
make each operation RIGHT the first time, than it is to blow through
it all haphazardly, and then try to go back and fix stuff.

Cliff

2009-03-16 10:40:54 UTC

I was going to post that it probably was possible by defining a custom
drill cycle or with a vb script but you beat me to it. But that is not
something a typical user could do and more often than not it'd have to
be purchased from a reseller.
Drilling is indeed customizable in Mastercam. However, the point still
stands, and that is the base drilling package sucks monkey dick.
Have you meddled around at all with Mastercam's FBM? The "feeling" I get
from reading the postings by most of the eMastercam.com fanboi's is that
it isn't yet worth shit so I've avoided it so far. Any thoughts besides
go fuck myself? :)
--
Black Dragon
I have ways of making money that you know nothing of.
-- John D. Rockefeller

That's where jb's endless (and non-associative) MDI edits come in .......

--
Cliff

Bill

2009-03-14 01:03:22 UTC

I was going to post that it probably was possible by defining a custom
drill cycle or with a vb script but you beat me to it. But that is not
something a typical user could do and more often than not it'd have to
be purchased from a reseller.
Drilling is indeed customizable in Mastercam. However, the point still
stands, and that is the base drilling package sucks monkey dick.
Have you meddled around at all with Mastercam's FBM? The "feeling" I get
from reading the postings by most of the eMastercam.com fanboi's is that
it isn't yet worth shit so I've avoided it so far. Any thoughts besides
go fuck myself? :)

Even in the highend (NX6) FBM is at its infancy. It's limited to simple
well defined 3d prismatic type bosses, pockets, & holes. From my one
year using MCX, it was waaaay behind even that level. I'm sure like
myself, your work is a bit beyond those constraints. The real power
(which only comes with integrated cadcam) is assemblies. I have some
projects with 5-10 revisions during programming (impellers, blades,
stators, etc) which are a breeze as long as one is simply replacing an
assembly component and not a complete dumb solid re-import.

Just imagine creating a complete mold based on one model - the customer
changes a few things. You replace the existing model and hopefully most
all of your mold geometry with move with the changes. : )

I could never go back to a standalone cam only system.

One other cool feature of an integrated system is you get a REAL
modeler. Much hype has been touted by a certain person here about
"Synchronous Technology" but I must say it's THE biggest advance for
those of use that must tweak a customers "dumb" solid model to make it
work. It's dead simple to use. It even keeps a history of the changes. I
would think Cimatron would have something similar.

--
Bill

m***@cin.net

2009-03-14 11:07:59 UTC

Post by Bill

I was going to post that it probably was possible by defining a custom
drill cycle or with a vb script but you beat me to it. But that is not
something a typical user could do and more often than not it'd have to
be purchased from a reseller.
Drilling is indeed customizable in Mastercam. However, the point still
stands, and that is the base drilling package sucks monkey dick.
Have you meddled around at all with Mastercam's FBM? The "feeling" I get
from reading the postings by most of the eMastercam.com fanboi's is that
it isn't yet worth shit so I've avoided it so far. Any thoughts besides
go fuck myself? :)

Even in the highend (NX6) FBM is at its infancy. It's limited to simple
well defined 3d prismatic type bosses, pockets, & holes. From my one
year using MCX, it was waaaay behind even that level. I'm sure like
myself, your work is a bit beyond those constraints. The real power
(which only comes with integrated cadcam) is assemblies. I have some
projects with 5-10 revisions during programming (impellers, blades,
stators, etc) which are a breeze as long as one is simply replacing an
assembly component and not a complete dumb solid re-import.
Just imagine creating a complete mold based on one model - the customer
changes a few things. You replace the existing model and hopefully most
all of your mold geometry with move with the changes. : )
I could never go back to a standalone cam only system.
One other cool feature of an integrated system is you get a REAL
modeler. Much hype has been touted by a certain person here about
"Synchronous Technology" but I must say it's THE biggest advance for
those of use that must tweak a customers "dumb" solid model to make it
work. It's dead simple to use. It even keeps a history of the changes. I
would think Cimatron would have something similar.
--
Bill

Right on. Cimatron has integrated CAD & CAM from its beginning. If you
need to massage your shit ass Pro-E model thats full of litttle holes
that wont do a PL split in Blo-E? Cimatron is the ticket. It can not
be stopped. Turn the problem area into a solid, I believe Cimatron
licensed the same sketcher that Solidworks uses, do the fix & run
toolpaths. NEVER leave the Cimatron environment. Its not necessary.
Get shop NC by Cimatron for the guys out in the shop. Its a watered
down Cimatron for the guys to change stuff around within the Cimatron
environment. Basicaly to fix my F-Ups.

Oh new data base comes in. The dumb ass engineer does not have time
to tell you where the changes are or forgets to tell all the changes.
Not a problem in Cimatron. Just "plop" it over the old one, even
though its double skewed out in 3D space (there are some tricks here)
& you can see within minutes what has changed.
Its not quite this easy but = push the button, toolpaths are updated,
drawings are updated, with the new model that you had to spend a hour
refixing. It does not get much better than that.

Cliff

2009-03-15 15:38:58 UTC

Post by Black Dragon
Drilling is indeed customizable in Mastercam. However, the point still
stands, and that is the base drilling package sucks monkey dick.

If such were automatic default choices banquers would whine
"too complicated & hard to learn" !!
Not a general need I suppose.

--
Cliff

Steve Mackay

2009-03-12 16:31:36 UTC

Post by Neurosis
I'll back that statement. Mastercam blows for drilling cycles. I ran
Cimatron for 15 years prior to our shop switching to Mastercam and i
was severely dissapointed. We switched to Mastercam four years ago
and it has been nothing but a dissapointment to me.

No first hand experience myself yet, but our Cimatron gurus were
showing me how it automatically adjusts feed rates at intersections
when drilling intersecting water lines in molds for example. That
alone is priceless when you do a lot of unattended / semi-attended
mold machining. No such functionality like that in Mastercam without
creating separate operations for each hole.

Like peck drilling without ripping the lips off the drill bit. In order to
compensate we either have to cut and paste for hours, giving each bite a
dwell, or take the drill bits and put a vertical flat on each bit with
stones, by hand. Otherwise you are puuling the bit out while it is producing
a chip, then jamming the bit back into an interrupted surface. Eats drills,
one of the most common and simple operations, yet no one at Mastercam seems
to be able to write a path program with chip breaking and dwell, with
operator choice of time or spindle revs) on each peck.
Mastercam has a marketing monolith, a juggernaut. Dassault puts out
Solidworks and Catia, both of which are clunky.
I started with APT and COMPACT on a Schlumberger workstation running two 10"
floppies and two 5.5" floppies (Z80 with 8 megs of RAM took a half hour to
boot), then Bridgeport EZCAM, then Mastercam 6. That and a buck and a
quarter gets me a cup of coffee.
I used to be able to *read* BCD tape, ran a Bridgeport with a Slosyn 7 (we
called it a slo seven) 2.5 axis with pnuematic tape readers and pnuematic
3rd axis, most CNC programmers today dont even know what that means. Tool
changers, HAH! Bar pushers and chip pullers.
Been fighting the shit ever since. CIMCO editor has been my best friend, it
allows post processor editing at ease as well.
I have played with Catia, UGS, Solidworks, have ten years in with Inventor,
20 with Autocad, you guys have motivated me to try out Cimatron.

The ONLY problem with Cimitron is it doesn't always play nice with
others.... Exports generally suck.

Black Dragon

2009-03-12 17:22:57 UTC

Post by Steve Mackay

Post by Neurosis
I'll back that statement. Mastercam blows for drilling cycles. I ran
Cimatron for 15 years prior to our shop switching to Mastercam and i
was severely dissapointed. We switched to Mastercam four years ago
and it has been nothing but a dissapointment to me.

No first hand experience myself yet, but our Cimatron gurus were
showing me how it automatically adjusts feed rates at intersections
when drilling intersecting water lines in molds for example. That
alone is priceless when you do a lot of unattended / semi-attended
mold machining. No such functionality like that in Mastercam without
creating separate operations for each hole.

Like peck drilling without ripping the lips off the drill bit. In order to
compensate we either have to cut and paste for hours, giving each bite a
dwell, or take the drill bits and put a vertical flat on each bit with
stones, by hand. Otherwise you are puuling the bit out while it is producing
a chip, then jamming the bit back into an interrupted surface. Eats drills,
one of the most common and simple operations, yet no one at Mastercam seems
to be able to write a path program with chip breaking and dwell, with
operator choice of time or spindle revs) on each peck.
Mastercam has a marketing monolith, a juggernaut. Dassault puts out
Solidworks and Catia, both of which are clunky.
I started with APT and COMPACT on a Schlumberger workstation running two 10"
floppies and two 5.5" floppies (Z80 with 8 megs of RAM took a half hour to
boot), then Bridgeport EZCAM, then Mastercam 6. That and a buck and a
quarter gets me a cup of coffee.
I used to be able to *read* BCD tape, ran a Bridgeport with a Slosyn 7 (we
called it a slo seven) 2.5 axis with pnuematic tape readers and pnuematic
3rd axis, most CNC programmers today dont even know what that means. Tool
changers, HAH! Bar pushers and chip pullers.
Been fighting the shit ever since. CIMCO editor has been my best friend, it
allows post processor editing at ease as well.
I have played with Catia, UGS, Solidworks, have ten years in with Inventor,
20 with Autocad, you guys have motivated me to try out Cimatron.

The ONLY problem with Cimitron is it doesn't always play nice with
others.... Exports generally suck.

step works pretty well for us between Cimatron and Mastercam.

--
Black Dragon

He: Do you like Kipling?
She: Oh, you naughty boy, I don't know! I've never kippled!

Scott

2009-03-12 18:58:08 UTC

Post by Steve Mackay
The ONLY problem with Cimitron is it doesn't always play nice with
others.... Exports generally suck.

step works pretty well for us between Cimatron and Mastercam.

STEP files are very platfrom independant, maybe even better than parasolids.

I *hate* IGES files. Anyone has a solid to make an IGES out of can use the
easier to program fornmats, or pay for the hours needed to stitch and create
usefull toolpaths.

SAT files sometimes work real well.

m***@cin.net

2009-03-13 01:07:18 UTC

Post by Steve Mackay
The ONLY problem with Cimitron is it doesn't always play nice with
others.... Exports generally suck.

step works pretty well for us between Cimatron and Mastercam.

STEP files are very platfrom independant, maybe even better than parasolids.
I *hate* IGES files. Anyone has a solid to make an IGES out of can use the
easier to program fornmats, or pay for the hours needed to stitch and create
usefull toolpaths.
SAT files sometimes work real well.

Yer right Cimatron's IGES if not set properly it will give Masterscam
& Solidworks a fit. There are settings to take care of that. I used to
create & fix (from pro-e) some complex 3D stuff in Cimatron & export
it to Solidworks to do the final fillet blending, which Solidworks is
very good at, make very pretty prints then hand the solid model data
off to other Solidworks guys. Also true exporting to Masterscam,
Cimatrons IGES settings have to be set. If you leave them default you
will create this humungasod file that mc does not know what to do
with. MC's import will give you shit on top of shit.
Speaking of the old days, how many have used the Frieden Flexowriter?
That type writer that punches 8 hole yellow oiled paper tape. using
tab sequential code for Bridgeport series II NC's. How bout manually
punching paper tape - one hole at a time off a little punch die &
splicing the ends together to make a continious running loop tape? god
help you if you did not stop the machine before it milled into the
table<g> or if a piece of fuzz got on the tape & the machine took a
right turn rapid travel - before the days of resolver feedback. Man
I'm I glad those days are over.
Now if I could get the good people at Cimatron to give me a little
stipend for all the good words I'm putting out & getting back, I'd be
HAPPY!<g>

jon_banquer

2009-03-13 02:26:06 UTC

This thread presents yet another opportunity for a NX user who has
already posted in this thread and who spent several years using
Mastercam to describe how NX drilling works compared to Mastercam
drilling.

When Siemens flew a rep in to demonstrate NX for us at my request, I
unfortunately didn't ask to see NX drilling because for at least 2
hours everything I asked to see blew Mastercam out of the water:
Better chaining, changing a Contour machining operation to a Pocket
machining operation with ease, an easy to use graphical post editor
and constructor, clicking on each machining operation in the tree and
seeing the in-process solid cut model, graphically moving the
Machining Coordinate System by dragging or rotating it, having instant
access to the Machining Coordinate System in the tree, etc, etc.

I think it's important to mention that the most impressive machined
parts I've ever seen posted in this newsgroup were done by Brian Sloan
(sp?) who posted as Cimatron Brian. He used Cimatron for machining
aerospace parts.

As my blog makes clear it’s unfortunate that I don’t know of anyone
who uses NX Feature Based machining. NX Feature Based machining looks
far more powerful than what you get with Mastercam, CAMWorks, etc. You
be the judge... here is a link to a video that shows NX Feature Based
machining:

http://jonbanquer.wordpress.com/unresolved-machining-and-cadcam-issues/

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

m***@cin.net

2009-03-13 09:51:22 UTC

Post by jon_banquer
This thread presents yet another opportunity for a NX user who has
already posted in this thread and who spent several years using
Mastercam to describe how NX drilling works compared to Mastercam
drilling.
When Siemens flew a rep in to demonstrate NX for us at my request, I
unfortunately didn't ask to see NX drilling because for at least 2
Better chaining, changing a Contour machining operation to a Pocket
machining operation with ease, an easy to use graphical post editor
and constructor, clicking on each machining operation in the tree and
seeing the in-process solid cut model, graphically moving the
Machining Coordinate System by dragging or rotating it, having instant
access to the Machining Coordinate System in the tree, etc, etc.
I think it's important to mention that the most impressive machined
parts I've ever seen posted in this newsgroup were done by Brian Sloan
(sp?) who posted as Cimatron Brian. He used Cimatron for machining
aerospace parts.
As my blog makes clear it’s unfortunate that I don’t know of anyone
who uses NX Feature Based machining. NX Feature Based machining looks
far more powerful than what you get with Mastercam, CAMWorks, etc. You
be the judge... here is a link to a video that shows NX Feature Based
http://jonbanquer.wordpress.com/unresolved-machining-and-cadcam-issues/
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Are you talking about G1 drilling or canned cycles? Whats the big
deal?

The only successful mold shops I've seen are using UG or ahguh<g> Its
ok if you've got 30k to spend. If Cimatron did not exist - NX would be
the only choice. Hell its Mcdonald Douglas the original CAD/CAM
system. But your dealing with a behemoth & things have to be done the
UG way very limited toolpath strategies. It works & keeps the spindles
running. I'm sure its better nowdays, but I can remember giving an
IGES file (on 8mm dat tape from a Unix system) to a UG toolmaker & it
took 4-5 hours to read in!

dude:
Cimatron rules Mastercam druels!

jon_banquer

2009-03-14 02:07:55 UTC

Whats the big deal?

I've taken the time and laid it all out so *anyone* can understand
what the problem with Mastercam drilling cycles are:

http://jonbanquer.wordpress.com/mastercam-x3-mu1-cant-handle-drilling-holes/

Unfortunately, the long time NX user posting in this thread isn't
really interested in educating anyone on what NX can really do and as
per usual takes the easy way out with broad sweeping generalities that
help no one interested in specifics because he can't be bothered.

Right now, we're swamped at work and like Black Dragon who doesn’t
have the time to get to Cimatron, I don’t have the time to get to NX
till things slow down.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Bill

2009-03-14 03:32:41 UTC

Whats the big deal?

I've taken the time and laid it all out so *anyone* can understand
http://jonbanquer.wordpress.com/mastercam-x3-mu1-cant-handle-drilling-holes/
Unfortunately, the long time NX user posting in this thread isn't
really interested in educating anyone on what NX can really do and as
per usual takes the easy way out with broad sweeping generalities that
help no one interested in specifics because he can't be bothered.
Right now, we're swamped at work and like Black Dragon who doesn’t
have the time to get to Cimatron, I don’t have the time to get to NX
till things slow down.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Come on Jon... You should know by now, you can't ram your ideologies
down someones throat and hope to start any kind of dialog.

Yes, I do make "broad sweeping generalities" as a rule. If someone asks
for some specifics about NX (I'm now on 6), I try to answer. I will not
try to do a detailed multi-page review of it using this newsgroup
format. It just doesn't work. Everyones needs are different. BD is a
mold maker. I'm an aerospace ME (with a heap of tool and fixture design
thrown in). I did provide some insights for BD to look at that may be of
interest even with Cimatron.

Btw, things never slow down. You have to jump in with both feet on the
projects your working on. I've only received formal training for UG back
at v13. I've had to claw may way through to the current NX6. It's just
the way this industry is. And yes, ST is sweet! We have a current
customer who sends us preliminary models (step) which we can tweak using
ST for improved manufacturing to then send back for their approval. For
that, it's awesome. As you know, Siemens does have some great videos to
look at as well.

Oh yea... hole drilling. I do NOT miss that whole "At Point" cluster
that MCX uses.
--
Bill

Proctologically Violated©®

2009-03-14 04:04:11 UTC

Whats the big deal?

I've taken the time and laid it all out so *anyone* can understand
http://jonbanquer.wordpress.com/mastercam-x3-mu1-cant-handle-drilling-holes/
Unfortunately, the long time NX user posting in this thread isn't
really interested in educating anyone on what NX can really do and as
per usual takes the easy way out with broad sweeping generalities that
help no one interested in specifics because he can't be bothered.
Right now, we're swamped at work and like Black Dragon who doesnt
have the time to get to Cimatron, I dont have the time to get to NX
till things slow down.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Come on Jon... You should know by now, you can't ram your ideologies down
someones throat and hope to start any kind of dialog.
Yes, I do make "broad sweeping generalities" as a rule. If someone asks
for some specifics about NX (I'm now on 6), I try to answer. I will not
try to do a detailed multi-page review of it using this newsgroup format.
It just doesn't work. Everyones needs are different. BD is a mold maker.
I'm an aerospace ME (with a heap of tool and fixture design thrown in). I
did provide some insights for BD to look at that may be of interest even
with Cimatron.
Btw, things never slow down. You have to jump in with both feet on the
projects your working on. I've only received formal training for UG back
at v13. I've had to claw may way through to the current NX6. It's just the
way this industry is. And yes, ST is sweet! We have a current customer who
sends us preliminary models (step) which we can tweak using ST for
improved manufacturing to then send back for their approval. For that,
it's awesome. As you know, Siemens does have some great videos to look at
as well.
Oh yea... hole drilling. I do NOT miss that whole "At Point" cluster that
MCX uses.

You do realize you're talkin to someone who doesn't know how to use a
spreadsheet, doesn't know how to manually contour (cuz he don't unnerstand
sines and cosines), and doesn't understand what a text editor or an ascii
file is.
Right?

If he were operating a machine, and noticed that it was drilling at x.5
instead of the spec'd x-.5 (a miracle right there), IF you put the control
in edit for him, he *might* be able to edit the x.5 to x-.5 .

However, if the pecks were wrong, he would not be able to fix that.
Unless a dialog box popped up, that said, To alter pecks, click HERE....
--
Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav Congressman) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
Hey, Big Boy, is that a wad (of cash) in yer pocket, or are you just
glad to see me??

--
Bill

jon_banquer

2009-03-14 04:58:47 UTC

Post by Bill
Come on Jon... You should know by now, you can't ram your ideologies
down someones throat and hope to start any kind of dialog.

Bill, I have always posted what I want, when I want, where I want and
I will continue to do so. ;>)

I'm not looking for dialog with you because you have made it clear for
years that you won't take the time to post
details like I do on my blog. For instance, here is a short but
detailed list of just a few of the many,
many problems that Mastercam X3 MU1 has. It's a page that's been read
many times by those at CNC Software and
by many others. It's read daily by many of the e-Mastercam clique of
idiots.

http://jonbanquer.wordpress.com/improvements-needed-in-mastercam/

Post by Bill
Yes, I do make "broad sweeping generalities" as a rule.

As you have made clear you don't like to teach and won't teach. It's
not important to you.

Post by Bill
If someone asks for some specifics about NX (I'm now on 6), I try to answer.

No you don't. Many times over the years I asked for specifics and you
refused to give them. I learned more in
a non-canned demo done for me by someone Siemens flew in to San Diego
at my request than I have from all of your posts
combined about NX. Once again, in this thread you have dropped the
ball when it comes to explaining how NX
handles drilling where as I've made it crystal clear (and been backed
up on by two long time Mastercam users)
exactly where Mastercam fails at drilling and why it's such a serious
problem.

Post by Bill
I will not try to do a detailed multi-page review of it using this newsgroup
format. It just doesn't work.

You won't do it in any format, Bill. Neither did you respond to an e-
mail I sent you.

When I got sick of the morons in this newsgroup (many of them your
pals) I started a blog. It's far and away the most
successful and well read CAM-centric blog on the Internet.

Post by Bill
Btw, things never slow down. You have to jump in with both feet on the
projects your working on. I've only received formal training for UG back
at v13. I've had to claw may way through to the current NX6. It's just
the way this industry is.

And what do you think I did with Mastercam? Where do you think this
detailed list came from? Who easily has the most suggestions on the
e-Mastercam forum in the Enhancement Forum... a forum that I requested
and was granted.

Post by Bill
And yes, ST is sweet!

I know it is. I used it before you ever saw it or knew about it.

Post by Bill
Oh yea... hole drilling. I do NOT miss that whole "At Point" cluster
that MCX uses.

As per usual you won't describe in any detail how NX does drilling
differently.

Maybe it's better to just ignore me and talk CADCAM with complete
CADCAM morons like Joe788, Tom Brewer or the retired guy who worked
for less money than many of our janitors make and who's boss loves to
buy "bargain" cheap Chinese Kurt vise knock-offs.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Joe788

2009-03-14 16:03:52 UTC

Post by jon_banquer
When I got sick of the morons in this newsgroup (many of them your
pals) I started a blog. It's far and away the most
successful and well read CAM-centric blog on the Internet.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHA
AHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please define most successful? Most
times fired from a machine shop? Most times banned from message
boards? Most aliases at emastercam? Most aliases on Google Groups?
Most times caught posting under false names because you were going
through giving yourself 5 star ratings and forgot to log out of
"Larry" and back into "Jon"? Most times author has refreshed the page
to up the hit count? Most time wasted selecting branch points because
you're too stupid to use the plane mask? If that's your judging
criteria, you are DEFINITELY the most successful!

Post by jon_banquer
Maybe it's better to just ignore me and talk CADCAM with complete
CADCAM morons like Joe788, Tom Brewer or the retired guy who worked
for less money than many of our janitors make and who's boss loves to
buy "bargain" cheap Chinese Kurt vise knock-offs.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

How many legal seats of software do you own, Jon?

Bill

2009-03-15 01:55:28 UTC

Post by Bill
If someone asks for some specifics about NX (I'm now on 6), I try to answer.

No you don't. Many times over the years I asked for specifics and you
refused to give them.

And Jon, lets be honest: after years, you STILL don't use NX. Move on.
Maybe get a different hobby, date, live life. Cadcam is not the end
all. I detect a lot a anger with you. Perhaps you should look beyond the
cadcam "quest" and enjoy the outdoors. Someday your going to look back
and see you missed the world.

"Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while,
you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller

--
Bill

John R. Carroll

2009-03-15 02:07:01 UTC

Post by Bill
If someone asks for some specifics about NX (I'm now on 6), I try to answer.

No you don't. Many times over the years I asked for specifics and you
refused to give them.

Okie Dokie.
You look a lot alike to me Bill....
Well, sort of.

JC

jon_banquer

2009-03-15 02:38:57 UTC

Post by Bill
And Jon, lets be honest: after years, you STILL don't use NX.

If I really felt the need to use NX6 at work was critical I'd be using
it right now. It can wait.

Post by Bill
Maybe get a different hobby...

How about I go to work for Haas like you did and try and make major
changes to a company that will never change and bang my head against
the wall like you did for years? Maybe one of the big differences
between you and I is that I already knew the kind of people Gene Haas
puts in charge and that I'd never want to work with people like this.
It took you years to figure that out.

Post by Bill
I detect a lot a anger with you.

For sure I don't like the FACT that CADCAM is far behind where I think
it should be. I do think this economy is going to get rid of a lot of
the brain dead assholes in this trade. It already has. I still haven't
stopped laughing that e-Mastercam clique idiot James Meyette had to
take a pay cut at the machine tool dealer he works for. I guess
feeding Joe788 bogus info about me doesn't help him in his job. LOL.
Couldn't have happened more deserving slime ball.

Post by Bill
Perhaps you should look beyond the cadcam "quest" and enjoy the outdoors.

You mean be like you and enjoy what you enjoy. I'll pass.

How do you think the company I work for compares to your choice for
years.... Haas Automation. ;>)

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

b***@aol.com

2009-03-15 03:16:31 UTC

On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:38:57 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Post by Bill
And Jon, lets be honest: after years, you STILL don't use NX.

But Jon said he would be using it by January 1, 2009....as usual his
predictions are as good and reliable as he is.

Post by jon_banquer
If I really felt the need to use NX6 at work was critical

But Jon this is what you have been prattling on about for the past
year. You know where YOU said YOU JUST HAD TO HAVE IT. Now according
to you, you have it Jon but it isn't worth taking the time to learn or
use!.....So waaaaaasssssup Mr. Eggspurt?

Post by jon_banquer
I'd be using
it right now. It can wait.

LOL........Jon, you said NX6 was 40X faster so 2 weeks training, 1
week working and you would be 37 weeks ahead already but "YOU" don't
have time....LOL. Your normal BS answer when you get caught lying.

Tom

m***@cin.net

2009-03-15 11:08:58 UTC

Post by b***@aol.com
On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:38:57 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Post by Bill
And Jon, lets be honest: after years, you STILL don't use NX.

But Jon said he would be using it by January 1, 2009....as usual his
predictions are as good and reliable as he is.

Post by jon_banquer
If I really felt the need to use NX6 at work was critical

Post by jon_banquer
I'd be using
it right now. It can wait.

Jon Jon Jon Jon who the f cares? Its been the same shit here for years
now.
What the F does any of this shit have to do with Cimatron? I'm not
sure who doen't have a life? Jon or his slammers?
better yet, go start a new group called alt.machines.slamjon or ?

b***@aol.com

2009-03-15 15:28:19 UTC

Post by b***@aol.com
On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:38:57 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Post by Bill
And Jon, lets be honest: after years, you STILL don't use NX.

But Jon said he would be using it by January 1, 2009....as usual his
predictions are as good and reliable as he is.

Post by jon_banquer
If I really felt the need to use NX6 at work was critical

Post by jon_banquer
I'd be using
it right now. It can wait.

I responded directly to a post just as you have. However I didn't
create an off topic post to complain about an off topic post.

Tom

jon_banquer

2009-03-15 15:51:58 UTC

Post by m***@cin.net
Jon Jon Jon Jon who the f cares? Its been the same shit here for years
now.
What the F does any of this shit have to do with Cimatron? I'm not
sure who doen't have a life? Jon or his slammers?
better yet, go start a new group called alt.machines.slamjon or ?

Because when dishonest morons like Tom Brewer, Joe 788, James Meyette,
etc. focus on me they don't have to deal with specifics like why
Mastercam can't handle the simplest drilling tasks efficiently without
falling to pieces, why SmartCAM needs a total rewrite from the ground
up because it's user interface will never attract new users who
expect / demand an easier to user interface, why a history based
modeler is the wrong choice for a machining job shop that has to
modify their customers models, etc.

What machinists and CADCAM programmers should be demanding from CADCAM
companies is why aren't the CADCAM systems these companies make a lot
better and why do market leading CADCAM systems fail so badly at the
basics.

The idiot ideology of Joe788, James Meyette, John Paris, and many of
the other e-Mastercam clique of idiots is that the CNC machine has to
be close to perfect but it's perfectly okay that CADCAM systems they
use and push is an inefficient piece of shit.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
jonbanquer.blogspot.com/

Joe788

2009-03-15 16:07:54 UTC

Because when dishonest morons like Tom Brewer, Joe 788, James Meyette,
etc. focus on me they don't have to deal with specifics like why
Mastercam can't handle the simplest drilling tasks efficiently without
falling to pieces, why SmartCAM needs a total rewrite from the ground
up because it's user interface will never attract new users who
expect / demand an easier to user interface, why a history based
modeler is the wrong choice for a machining job shop that has to
modify their customers models, etc.
What machinists and CADCAM programmers should be demanding from CADCAM
companies is why aren't the CADCAM systems these companies make a lot
better and why do market leading CADCAM systems fail so badly at the
basics.
The idiot ideology of Joe788, James Meyette, John Paris, and many of
the other e-Mastercam clique of idiots is that the CNC machine has to
be close to perfect but it's perfectly okay that CADCAM systems they
use and push is an inefficient piece of shit.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
jonbanquer.blogspot.com/

Jon, why am I "dishonest"? Can you please post a single instance,
EVER, of a lie or dishonest thing I've posted?

m***@cin.net

2009-03-15 16:12:29 UTC

Because when dishonest morons like Tom Brewer, Joe 788, James Meyette,
etc. focus on me they don't have to deal with specifics like why
Mastercam can't handle the simplest drilling tasks efficiently without
falling to pieces, why SmartCAM needs a total rewrite from the ground
up because it's user interface will never attract new users who
expect / demand an easier to user interface, why a history based
modeler is the wrong choice for a machining job shop that has to
modify their customers models, etc.
What machinists and CADCAM programmers should be demanding from CADCAM
companies is why aren't the CADCAM systems these companies make a lot
better and why do market leading CADCAM systems fail so badly at the
basics.
The idiot ideology of Joe788, James Meyette, John Paris, and many of
the other e-Mastercam clique of idiots is that the CNC machine has to
be close to perfect but it's perfectly okay that CADCAM systems they
use and push is an inefficient piece of shit.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
jonbanquer.blogspot.com/

Ok horse's here's the water (Cimatron) come on now drink. Well there
it is, your on your own now. Just keep stomping your feet, shoeing the
flies away with your tail, & alot of hehawing. Maybe someday you'll
learn.

jon_banquer

2009-03-16 00:57:59 UTC

Post by m***@cin.net
Ok horse's here's the water (Cimatron) come on now drink. Well there
it is, your on your own now. Just keep stomping your feet, shoeing the
flies away with your tail, & alot of hehawing. Maybe someday you'll
learn.

Well its taken Black Dragon years so I guess I'm in good company.

Why do you think Cimatron purchased Gibbscam if Cimatron is "the
water" for prototype and production milling?

Being better at drilling cycles and surfacing and having great CAD
doesn’t make a complete system for prototype and production milling.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
jonbanquer.blogspot.com/

b***@aol.com

2009-03-15 17:05:50 UTC

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:51:58 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Because when dishonest morons like Tom Brewer, Joe 788, James Meyette,
etc.

Dishonest in what way? Please post one example.

Post by jon_banquer
focus on me they don't have to deal with specifics like why
Mastercam can't handle the simplest drilling tasks efficiently without
falling to pieces,

I never liked MasterCAM since day one but if I had to use it I
wouldn't spend all my time complaining, I would learn to use the tool
I am given.

Post by jon_banquer
why SmartCAM needs a total rewrite from the ground
up because it's user interface will never attract new users who
expect / demand an easier to user interface,

How would YOU know, you don't even know the basics of
SmartCAM....LOL..that would be where you said it doesn't have anything
like chaining.

Show me a CAM program that is faster or easier to program a family of
parts than SmartCAM. Here are two videos I made. In these two videos
is SmartCAM V15.5, creating two different dash numbers for a family of
parts using a tabulated drawing. In the videos I am creating two new
machine programs in real time. It generates good g-code for any
material any machine* and it only takes a few seconds.

http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk

Prompts operator for two inputs, run mode and what dash number (family
size number) then creates the program.

http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs

Simi-automatic, It is for instances where someone wants to order a
modified part. In this case customer wants different drill diameter.
Notice from the operator input it automatically updated the job plan
(tool diameter) and used the correct drill. SmartCAM prompts user for
data while giving standard tabulated drawing dimension for that dash
number, the user can change or accept by hitting enter or change it by
inputting a new value as I did for drill diameter "A".

The advantage being I don't need to update and/or track tens of
thousands of legacy programs, after a program is used it is deleted.
This way in case tabulated drawing change, advancements in tooling and
machinery come along all I need do is edit ONE program for each family
of parts rather than tens of thousands of legacy programs.

Tom

* that I have a code generator for

Cliff

2009-03-16 10:59:44 UTC

Post by m***@cin.net
better yet, go start a new group called alt.machines.slamjon or ?

http://www.geocities.com/banquercadcam/

HTH

--
Cliff

Joe788

2009-03-15 15:21:07 UTC

Post by Bill
And Jon, lets be honest: after years, you STILL don't use NX.

If I really felt the need to use NX6 at work was critical I'd be using
it right now. It can wait.

Post by Bill
Maybe get a different hobby...

Post by Bill
I detect a lot a anger with you.

Post by Bill
Perhaps you should look beyond the cadcam "quest" and enjoy the outdoors.

You mean be like you and enjoy what you enjoy. I'll pass.
How do you think the company I work for compares to your choice for
years.... Haas Automation. ;>)
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Jon, what type of capital equipment purchases were made at YOUR shop
in 2008? Did you manage to get those clapped out VMCs to stop dropping
tools? What kind of capital equipment purchases are planned for 2009?

Proctologically Violated©®

2009-03-15 15:47:02 UTC

Post by Bill
And Jon, lets be honest: after years, you STILL don't use NX.

If I really felt the need to use NX6 at work was critical I'd be using
it right now. It can wait.

Post by Bill
Maybe get a different hobby...

Except, jb, you don't work """"with"""" people.
You do what some muthafucka TELLS you to do.... sweep, crank that handle,
press dat button....

Post by Bill
I detect a lot a anger with you.

Proly the pre-meltdown Frenzy.

Post by jon_banquer
For sure I don't like the FACT that CADCAM is far behind where I think
it should be.

And, just where SHOULD it be, O-Wize-Won??

I think jb has watched too much Star Trek, was too mesmorized by
transporters'n'shit.
He thinks, Gee, If I can imagine it, it should be done.
And, Why cain't we all be floating time-traveling energy orbs????

Plus, with his adolescent contrariness, once it's done, it's still not
effing good enough. Plus, his other sociopathies. Yes, plural.

Beam'em up, Scotty....
--
Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav Congressman) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
Hey, Big Boy, is that a wad (of cash) in yer pocket, or are you just
glad to see me??

Post by Bill
Perhaps you should look beyond the cadcam "quest" and enjoy the outdoors.

You mean be like you and enjoy what you enjoy. I'll pass.
How do you think the company I work for compares to your choice for
years.... Haas Automation. ;>)
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Bill

2009-03-15 22:24:02 UTC

Post by jon_banquer
How about I go to work for Haas like you did and try and make major
changes to a company that will never change and bang my head against
the wall like you did for years? Maybe one of the big differences
between you and I is that I already knew the kind of people Gene Haas
puts in charge and that I'd never want to work with people like this.
It took you years to figure that out.

Dude. You don't recall I worked there just about a year and a half? To
most here, that would be considered a short gig.

--
Bill

jon_banquer

2009-03-16 00:41:51 UTC

Post by Bill
You don't recall I worked there just about a year and a half?

That would be a year and a half longer than I would been there. IOW, I
would have never taken the job to begin with. It doesn't take a rocket
scientist to figure out how Gene Haas runs a company and what he
surrounds himself with.

It's obvious you aren't real sharp at reading a situation like this.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
jonbanquer.blogspot.com/

Joe788

2009-03-16 02:17:56 UTC

Post by Bill
You don't recall I worked there just about a year and a half?

That would be a year and a half longer than I would been there. IOW, I
would have never taken the job to begin with.

The machine shop at Haas Automation is actually responsible for
producing parts critical to the success of the company. Hence, you are
correct when you say, "That's a year and a half longer than I would
have been there." Because, nobody there is clueless enough to hire an
insane sociopath like yourself.

Post by jon_banquer
It doesn't take a rocket
scientist to figure out how Gene Haas runs a company and what he
surrounds himself with.

With unprecedented success, and in a Ferrari? You're right, it's not
hard to see how he "runs a company".

Post by jon_banquer
It's obvious you aren't real sharp at reading a situation like this.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
jonbanquer.blogspot.com

Figure out that Plane Mask yet?

Cliff

2009-03-16 11:04:13 UTC

Post by Bill
You don't recall I worked there just about a year and a half?

That would be a year and a half longer than I would been there.

One day would have told the story .....

--
Cliff

Joe788

2009-03-15 15:18:16 UTC

Post by Bill

Post by Bill
If someone asks for some specifics about NX (I'm now on 6), I try to answer.

No you don't. Many times over the years I asked for specifics and you
refused to give them.

And Jon, lets be honest: after years, you STILL don't use NX. Move on.
Maybe get a different hobby, date, live life. Cadcam is not the end
all. I detect a lot a anger with you. Perhaps you should look beyond the
cadcam "quest" and enjoy the outdoors. Someday your going to look back
and see you missed the world.
"Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while,
you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller
--
Bill

Bill, if you were put in charge of setting up a high-end shop, and the
bean counters said, "Bill, here are your two choices...."

#1-Hermle machines, and a few seats of Mastercam.

#2-Haas VF-Trunnion machines, and a few seats of NX6.

What would be your choice?

Bill

2009-03-15 22:41:58 UTC

Post by Joe788
Bill, if you were put in charge of setting up a high-end shop, and the
bean counters said, "Bill, here are your two choices...."
#1-Hermle machines, and a few seats of Mastercam.
#2-Haas VF-Trunnion machines, and a few seats of NX6.
What would be your choice?

That's not fair!<g> But of course: Hermles. That said, we have two
Hermle C30's (maybe a C40 soon) and several seats of NX6. I find most
shops that do complex work on expensive machines tend to include that
same level of software as well. It's really not that much more in the
long run. The parts we do are so expensive it would be foolish the cut
costs their.

--
Bill

r***@msn.com

2009-03-15 23:33:26 UTC

Jon,
Still dont trust the "incremental" button on your drill depths in M/C?
Click to that and the system will drill to every depth, regardless of
differences from hole to hole.

Sheesh, learn to use the shit before you bash it!

jon_banquer

2009-03-16 00:35:07 UTC

Post by r***@msn.com
Jon,
Still dont trust the "incremental" button on your drill depths in M/C?
Click to that and the system will drill to every depth, regardless of
differences from hole to hole.
Sheesh, learn to use the shit before you bash it!

Darrell this would be yet another area of Mastercam you're totally
clueless about. Very similar to when I figured out Transform / Mirror
and you gave up. How about you pull your head out of your ass for a
change and read my the page on my blog that clearly explains what the
problem with Mastercam drill cycles are. After you read it see if you
can figure out what "Change At Point" is there for and why the
interface of "Change At Point" sucks so bad. Maybe your boy James
Meyette can give you some clues if you still can't figure it out.

How many years have you used Mastercam and yet you don't even know the
basics of the product?

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
jonbanquer.blogspot.com/

r***@msn.com

2009-03-16 13:58:32 UTC

Jon,
Based on your rants and musings, I've forgotten more about Mastercam
than you will ever know, you are the most opinionated, unteachable
piece of
work in this or any other group / board on the internet.

I was working with "change at point" 10 years ago, your rant was based
on the system not being able to pick up hole depth differences, not
"how to edit the shit out of a program", you remind me of the guy who
spends 3 hours manually editing a program to save 5 minutes on a 5
part run of 50 minute parts, and then
bitches about the software being "unfriendy".

180 mins editing, 25 min net gain in cycle time, endless hours on
internet bitching about software, hmm, bet your really adding to the
bottom line the in San Deigo, eh?
Is that called "value added services"?, how does your company bill
that time to your customer? how do they compensate for the schedule
delays that are incurred by
this repeating itself over and over again.

Transform / Mirror works fine for me, maybe you should give Mr.
Meyette a call and let him teach you some more about the software, you
do seem to be somewhat obsessed with him.

BTW, Gene Haas IS running a multi million $ company, what are you
doing?, sitting on the internet?
He has proven success, you have a blog, BFD, start your own company,
try to make it as big as Gene Haas has made his.

Joe788

2009-03-16 14:36:05 UTC

Post by r***@msn.com
Jon,
Based on your rants and musings, I've forgotten more about Mastercam
than you will ever know, you are the most opinionated, unteachable
piece of
work in this or any other group / board on the internet.
I was working with "change at point" 10 years ago, your rant was based
on the system not being able to pick up hole depth differences, not
"how to edit the shit out of a program", you remind me of the guy who
spends 3 hours manually editing a program to save 5 minutes on a 5
part run of 50 minute parts, and then
bitches about the software being "unfriendy".
180 mins editing, 25 min net gain in cycle time, endless hours on
internet bitching about software, hmm, bet your really adding to the
bottom line the in San Deigo, eh?
Is that called "value added services"?, how does your company bill
that time to your customer? how do they compensate for the schedule
delays that are incurred by
this repeating itself over and over again.
Transform / Mirror works fine for me, maybe you should give Mr.
Meyette a call and let him teach you some more about the software, you
do seem to be somewhat obsessed with him.
BTW, Gene Haas IS running a multi million $ company, what are you
doing?, sitting on the internet?
He has proven success, you have a blog, BFD, start your own company,
try to make it as big as Gene Haas has made his.

Did you ever catch Jon's original Jihad against chaining? He couldn't
figure out why the "stupid piece of shit" Mastercam made him choose a
direction at every branch point. Instead of asking for help on the
*most basic* of basic functions of Mastercam, he deemed chaining a
"stupid waste of time", and decided to wage war against it on the
internet! Hilarious!

Joe788

2009-03-16 02:19:22 UTC

Jon doesn't actually need or understand the drilling capability that
he's complaining about. He saw somebody else complaining about it on
emastercam, and latched onto it the same way he latches on to anything
Bill says about NX.

m***@cin.net

2009-03-16 09:12:17 UTC

What the hell is it about drilling a hole? Its the first thing you
learn when you get in the trade? Drill,ream,tap& sqr blocks.

Q: how do you drill a 30" long 7/16" dia waterline hole (not a
precision hole) on a radial arm drill press with 12" of travel? FYI
your using a Guering parabolic flute harderned land drill 18"long in
P-20 steel. You dont have time to send it to a gun drill house. You've
got freekin ko pin clearence holes within 1/4" on either side of this
hole just for fun& breaking into to cross line holes at either end!

ok you figured out how to do it. now your drill got a little dull on
the 3rd or 4th hole, walked over a little & nicked a ko pin clearence
you did not see some dumbass opened up out of location & was closer
than you thought. what do you do?

Cliff

2009-03-16 10:56:33 UTC

Post by Bill
I will not try to do a detailed multi-page review of it using this newsgroup
format. It just doesn't work.

You won't do it in any format, Bill. Neither did you respond to an e-
mail I sent you.

Probably the green dripping slime ...

--
Cliff

Joe788

2009-03-14 16:06:05 UTC

Post by Bill

Whats the big deal?

I've taken the time and laid it all out so *anyone* can understand
http://jonbanquer.wordpress.com/mastercam-x3-mu1-cant-handle-drilling...
Unfortunately, the long time NX user posting in this thread isn't
really interested in educating anyone on what NX can really do and as
per usual takes the easy way out with broad sweeping generalities that
help no one interested in specifics because he can't be bothered.
Right now, we're swamped at work and like Black Dragon who doesn’t
have the time to get to Cimatron, I don’t have the time to get to NX
till things slow down.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Come on Jon... You should know by now, you can't ram your ideologies
down someones throat and hope to start any kind of dialog.
Yes, I do make "broad sweeping generalities" as a rule. If someone asks
for some specifics about NX (I'm now on 6), I try to answer. I will not
try to do a detailed multi-page review of it using this newsgroup
format. It just doesn't work. Everyones needs are different. BD is a
mold maker. I'm an aerospace ME (with a heap of tool and fixture design
thrown in). I did provide some insights for BD to look at that may be of
interest even with Cimatron.
Btw, things never slow down. You have to jump in with both feet on the
projects your working on. I've only received formal training for UG back
at v13. I've had to claw may way through to the current NX6. It's just
the way this industry is. And yes, ST is sweet! We have a current
customer who sends us preliminary models (step) which we can tweak using
ST for improved manufacturing to then send back for their approval. For
that, it's awesome. As you know, Siemens does have some great videos to
look at as well.
Oh yea... hole drilling. I do NOT miss that whole "At Point" cluster
that MCX uses.
--
Bill

Bill, you better watch it. You're already getting on Jon's bad side. I
can tell, because he's going through all of your posts and giving them
"One Star" ratings! HAHA!

Cliff

2009-03-16 10:54:39 UTC

Whats the big deal?

I've taken the time and laid it all out so *anyone* can understand

What happened to 3dinkies?

--
Cliff

Cliff

2009-03-15 15:42:29 UTC

Post by m***@cin.net
Hell its Mcdonald Douglas the original CAD/CAM
system.

Hardly all that ... it's based on UNIAPT &
the work of Dr. Hanratty.
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

--
Cliff

Cliff

2009-03-15 15:43:39 UTC

Post by m***@cin.net
I can remember giving an
IGES file (on 8mm dat tape from a Unix system) to a UG toolmaker & it
took 4-5 hours to read in!

--
Cliff

b***@aol.com

2009-03-13 10:16:43 UTC

On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:26:06 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

As my blog makes clear it's unfortunate that I don't know of anyone
who uses NX Feature Based machining. NX Feature Based machining looks
far more powerful than what you get with Mastercam, CAMWorks, etc. You
be the judge... here is a link to a video that shows NX Feature Based

Jon,

Thought you said your company bought NX and was migrating from ProE &
MasterCAM starting last January, what happened?

Tom

Cliff

2009-03-16 10:52:41 UTC

Post by b***@aol.com
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:26:06 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Jon,
Thought you said your company bought NX and was migrating from ProE &
MasterCAM starting last January, what happened?
Tom

He lied, as usual.

--
Cliff

Joe788

2009-03-13 14:57:36 UTC

Jon, you can't even use Mastercam, and you've been tinkering with it
everyday for over a year. Why would anybody want to hear your opinion
on software that you don't even have access to? You just latch on to
every press release, video, advertisement, or snippet of info that
Bill gives you, and then sputter it out all over the internet.

Cliff

2009-03-16 10:50:56 UTC

Post by m***@cin.net
Speaking of the old days, how many have used the Frieden Flexowriter?
That type writer that punches 8 hole yellow oiled paper tape. using
tab sequential code for Bridgeport series II NC's. How bout manually
punching paper tape - one hole at a time off a little punch die &
splicing the ends together to make a continious running loop tape?

--
Cliff

Cliff

2009-03-15 15:33:12 UTC

Post by Scott
Like peck drilling without ripping the lips off the drill bit. In order to
compensate we either have to cut and paste for hours, giving each bite a
dwell, or take the drill bits and put a vertical flat on each bit with
stones, by hand. Otherwise you are puuling the bit out while it is producing
a chip, then jamming the bit back into an interrupted surface. Eats drills,
one of the most common and simple operations, yet no one at Mastercam seems
to be able to write a path program with chip breaking and dwell, with
operator choice of time or spindle revs) on each peck.

Why not use the post ????

--
Cliff

Cliff

2009-03-16 10:38:53 UTC

Post by Neurosis

Post by b***@aol.com
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:39:08 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
something as basic as drilling holes Mastercam falls to
pieces

Tried reading the instructions or getting training?
Nope.

MasterCAM is not Cimatron.
So what?
Cimatron is not MasterCAM either.

--
Cliff

m***@cin.net

2009-03-16 11:05:47 UTC

Post by Neurosis

Post by b***@aol.com
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:39:08 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
something as basic as drilling holes Mastercam falls to
pieces

Tried reading the instructions or getting training?
Nope.

MasterCAM is not Cimatron.
So what?
Cimatron is not MasterCAM either.
--
Cliff

please read the thread name duh

ok you need help. see doctor Phil
Loading Image...

if all else fails:
Loading Image...

Cliff

2009-03-12 09:03:11 UTC

Post by jon_banquer
Cimatron's drilling is apparently much better thought out than
Mastercam's.

You don't use it either.

--
Cliff

Cliff

2009-03-12 09:05:18 UTC

Post by jon_banquer
Here is an example from work today. One of our 5
seats of Mastercam would not post the feedrate correctly and instead
posted a feedrate for every machining operation at 99.9999. I needed
to completely reboot the computer to get Mastercam X2 MR2 SP1 to post
the G code correctly. Last week on another machine creating a new WCS
stopped working completely until I rebooted the computer.

They let you touch the on/off switch?

Check the memory & disk?

--
Cliff

m***@cin.net

2009-03-12 11:07:33 UTC

They let you touch the on/off switch?
Check the memory & disk?
--
Cliff

Ok all cam programs suck. Because they wont let you do want, when you
want & how you want. So in Cimatron's case, I learned to use it the
way the the writers intended. These gurus are not machinists, which
may create no so efficient huge tool paths, so what? Maybe it makes a
difference in production work when your counting milliseconds per
part, but not in machining 3D sculpted mold surfaces. So what, there's
a few (somtimes quite a few) rapids & nice helical shell mill plunges
for roughing, but very safe gouge free finishing. Machines are
running, Boss is Happy I'm happy!
Of course there's the old machine tools on the floor that cant
accecpt that huge code. They have not been updated, networked ect. &
probably never will due to costs. Cimatron is not for them. Maybe your
cutting basic plates pockets & lathe work, Cimatron is not for them.
But if your accepting customer supplied 3D data thats twisted out in
space like
automotive, & your getting customer revisions throughout the machining
& design process, Cimatron is for you.
Its the one stop shop Design & Machine software. Its high end shit
thats not for everyone & its not perfect but it is reliable &
unstopable. Its very good at designing complex 3D assemblies - like
injection molds.
Ok mr Pro-E guru split this 3D mold part with all the PL run off
surfaces the way I want them not your way, adding all the side
actions, lifters, unscrewing cores & floating plates. Maybe Pro'E is
better nowdays, but I've Pro-E fall on its face with parts desiged in
Pro-E!
The UG guys have a chance on stuborn splits because they were allowed
to roll back to wireframe mode & continue working.

badee badee Thats all folks - gotta go cut some TI

Cliff

2009-03-15 14:23:31 UTC

They let you touch the on/off switch?
Check the memory & disk?
--
Cliff

Ok all cam programs suck. Because they wont let you do want, when you
want & how you want.

So use them in the logical way they were designed to work
(may involve education, learning, skill, reading, training & thought).

Post by m***@cin.net
So in Cimatron's case, I learned to use it the
way the the writers intended.

Did that work?

--
Cliff

Black Dragon

2009-03-12 12:41:58 UTC

Post by jon_banquer
bet your last dollar that lying slimeballs like James Meyette, John
Paris or Matt Finley will never post this kind of truth on the e-
Mastercam clique of idiots.

Those guys aren't idiots. James and John certainly know their shit about
Mastercam. Matt is still stuck in the past on v9.

Are they CNC Software / Mastercam fanboi's? Indeed. The most devoted
kind even.

Are they all Wingnuts? All three absofuckinglutly drank the strange koolaid
and then some. There are some Leftards there too but they are a minority.

The Off Topic eMastercam forum is totally polluted with typical Wingnut
/ Leftard hatred and lies, much like the cross posted kook / political
spew here. eMastercam is supposed to be a place for Mastercam using
professionals and it's anything but professional. The place is a perpetual
train wreck and is really only useful to us (tinu) seasoned Mastercam
users after new releases to find work arounds to all the new bugs
maintenance costs paid for. However, total Mastercam noobs can certainly
get decent help there on a regular basis.

YMMV.

--
Black Dragon

I saw what you did and I know who you are.

jon_banquer

2009-03-12 13:40:03 UTC

Post by Black Dragon
Those guys aren't idiots. James and John certainly know their shit about
Mastercam. Matt is still stuck in the past on v9.
Are they CNC Software / Mastercam fanboi's? Indeed. The most devoted
kind even.
Are they all Wingnuts? All three absofuckinglutly drank the strange koolaid
and then some. There are some Leftards there too but they are a minority.
The Off Topic eMastercam forum is totally polluted with typical Wingnut
/ Leftard hatred and lies, much like the cross posted kook / political
spew here. eMastercam is supposed to be a place for Mastercam using
professionals and it's anything but professional. The place is a perpetual
train wreck and is really only useful to us (tinu) seasoned Mastercam
users after new releases to find work arounds to all the new bugs
maintenance costs paid for. However, total Mastercam noobs can certainly
get decent help there on a regular basis.
YMMV.
--
Black Dragon
I saw what you did and I know who you are.

Most of the clique of idiots are in the LA area. This is an area I
would never live in or work in. It’s filled with backstabbing
slimeballs.

The majority of the e-Mastercam clique of idiots have ulterior
motives: James Meyette works for a machine tool dealer and can’t cut
it in a machining job shop. Meyette couldn’t cut it selling Mastercam
either. John Paris works for a Mastercam VAR. These slim balls control
how In House Solutions runs the e-Mastercam forum. It’s not about the
Mastercam user on the e-Mastercam forum. What the e-Mastercam fourm is
about is getting as many VAR’s as possible to sell In House Solutions
products which mainly appeal to smaller VAR’s many of whom don’t
know / can’t teach Mastercam as well as they should be able to.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com/

Joe788

2009-03-12 15:27:52 UTC

Most of the clique of idiots are in the LA area. This is an area I
would never live in or work in. It’s filled with backstabbing
slimeballs.
The majority of the e-Mastercam clique of idiots have ulterior
motives: James Meyette works for a machine tool dealer and can’t cut
it in a machining job shop. Meyette couldn’t cut it selling Mastercam
either. John Paris works for a Mastercam VAR. These slim balls control
how In House Solutions runs the e-Mastercam forum. It’s not about the
Mastercam user on the e-Mastercam forum. What the e-Mastercam fourm is
about is getting as many VAR’s as possible to sell In House Solutions
products which mainly appeal to smaller VAR’s many of whom don’t
know / can’t teach Mastercam as well as they should be able to.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CAhttp://jonbanquer.blogspot.com/

Jon, for a bunch of "idiots" they sure gave you a tremendous amount of
help with all of your beginner questions. Why aren't you over there
right now flooding the forum under one of your aliases? Did
Billholeman get banned?

It's amazing you've been using Mastercam this long, and STILL can't
figure out how to actually do anything with it.

Joe788

2009-03-12 15:30:15 UTC

Most of the clique of idiots are in the LA area. This is an area I
would never live in or work in. It’s filled with backstabbing
slimeballs.
The majority of the e-Mastercam clique of idiots have ulterior
motives: James Meyette works for a machine tool dealer and can’t cut
it in a machining job shop. Meyette couldn’t cut it selling Mastercam
either. John Paris works for a Mastercam VAR. These slim balls control
how In House Solutions runs the e-Mastercam forum. It’s not about the
Mastercam user on the e-Mastercam forum. What the e-Mastercam fourm is
about is getting as many VAR’s as possible to sell In House Solutions
products which mainly appeal to smaller VAR’s many of whom don’t
know / can’t teach Mastercam as well as they should be able to.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CAhttp://jonbanquer.blogspot.com/

Yeah, James the "backstabber", who just hooked up another e-Mastercam
member with a job in LA, paying more than double what you make. What a
terrible guy.

Black Dragon

2009-03-13 12:03:07 UTC

Post by jon_banquer
Mastercam user on the e-Mastercam forum. What the e-Mastercam fourm is
about is getting as many VAR?s as possible to sell In House Solutions
products which mainly appeal to smaller VAR?s many of whom don?t
know / can?t teach Mastercam as well as they should be able to.

Currently looks more like a forum for trumpeting right wing propaganda
than a marketing tool for CNC Software at the moment.

--
Black Dragon

patent:
A method of publicizing inventions so others can copy them.

2009-03-13 13:56:10 UTC