Discussion:
Can't Peck Drill
(too old to reply)
Jim
2004-11-13 04:08:43 UTC
Permalink
Hello
We have a Motion Master cnc that has a Fagor 8055M control, We mostly do
3axis wood molds and models, however sometimes we need to do some 2 axis
drilling on .250 thick aluminum. When I post out a drill program using a
peck cycle I get an error code on the control (can't think what it is
exactly) It will not do a peck. Even spent an afternoon hand writing some
small programs using the Fagor manual. Still could not get it. Does anyone
out there have a fagor 8055m that is able to do a peck drill cycle? Could
you send me a little sample program that works on your machine?
Our Cam post guy is working on it, but I have a job to drill this week, and
I'm not sure if I'll get a fix by then. Thanks for any help / suggestions.

Jim
***@woodlandtrade.com
Pfeister
2004-11-13 13:34:47 UTC
Permalink
"Jim" <***@nventure.com> wrote in message news:***@corp.supernews.com...

we need to do some 2 axis drilling on .250 thick aluminum.
Just wondering ...... If you're only going .250" deep, why do you even need
to peck the drill ? Are the holes really small diameter ?

I'm not familiar with that control, but we used to have a Fanuc 6t that had
no peck cycle and what we did was, we wrote an incremental sub-program and
looped it into the sub-progam a number of times to make the machine peck.

Is your machine programmed in G-code ? If so, I could try and recall that
sub-program loop and send it to you.
J. R. Carroll
2004-11-13 14:08:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Hello
We have a Motion Master cnc that has a Fagor 8055M control, We mostly do
3axis wood molds and models, however sometimes we need to do some 2 axis
drilling on .250 thick aluminum. When I post out a drill program using a
peck cycle I get an error code on the control (can't think what it is
exactly) It will not do a peck. Even spent an afternoon hand writing some
small programs using the Fagor manual. Still could not get it. Does anyone
out there have a fagor 8055m that is able to do a peck drill cycle? Could
you send me a little sample program that works on your machine?
Our Cam post guy is working on it, but I have a job to drill this week, and
I'm not sure if I'll get a fix by then. Thanks for any help / suggestions.
Jim
I is the signed incremental peck distance and J is the number of pecks.

G83 G99 Z.1 I-.01 J90. F15
Y-4.006
X1.614
G80
G0 Z.4 M9
--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com
Robin S.
2004-11-13 23:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. R. Carroll
I is the signed incremental peck distance and J is the number of pecks.
G83 G99 Z.1 I-.01 J90. F15
I'm not sure what "signed" means but why would you need the incremental peck
distance and the number of pecks? Or perhaps you don't specify the bottom of
the hole? This seems odd because by specifing either I or J and the bottom
of the hole, one doesn't need to do any calculations...

Just wondering (I'm used to Okuma).

Regards,

Robin
J. R. Carroll
2004-11-14 00:56:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin S.
Post by J. R. Carroll
I is the signed incremental peck distance and J is the number of pecks.
G83 G99 Z.1 I-.01 J90. F15
I'm not sure what "signed" means but why would you need the incremental peck
distance and the number of pecks? Or perhaps you don't specify the bottom of
the hole? This seems odd because by specifing either I or J and the bottom
of the hole, one doesn't need to do any calculations...
Just wondering (I'm used to Okuma).
Regards,
Robin
Robin,
This is just the way the PLC and canned cycles are defined. As for "signed",
I mean + or - the value has a direction associated with it and no, you do
not program the depth.
I do not have this, or any, machine but I do have software customers with
this control technology on the machine indicated and the post I wrote
outputs the code sample shown and it works for them.
As far as Okuma's go, they use a number of controls in multiple flavors. I
have seen the 5000 and 5020 series on mills as well as the Siemens 810 and
840 in both the C and D variants on G200 and G400 Mill/Turn machines and
they were different. At least with an Okuma you get good documentation. The
Germans are like that :)
All in all, there is not industry standard and even between controls on
similar machines from different builders you see big differences. Find a
FADAL with an 840D on it and look at the canned cycles some time and you
will see the lengths some builders go too customizing perfectly useful and
well understood cycle definitions delivered with the control.
--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com
Robin S.
2004-11-14 02:01:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. R. Carroll
Robin,
This is just the way the PLC and canned cycles are defined. As for "signed",
I mean + or - the value has a direction associated with it and no, you do
not program the depth.
I was just commenting on the idea of having to use a calculator as opposed
to not using a calculator while programming your drilling cycles.

I'm just the kind of person that doesn't like to have those little
inconvienences that make really simple jobs take way too long. Perhaps this
situation isn't a big deal but I thought it an odd way to design a canned
cycle.

There's a fine line between lazy and efficient.

Regards,

Robin
Cliff
2004-11-14 21:26:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin S.
Perhaps this
situation isn't a big deal but I thought it an odd way to design a canned
cycle.
With signed data one can do things like counterbore from the back
side of a thru hole. There are special tools.
--
Cliff
Charlie Gary
2004-11-14 23:03:36 UTC
Permalink
Robin S. wrote:
<<Snip>>
Post by Robin S.
Just wondering (I'm used to Okuma).
Regards,
Robin
You're being spoiled with those Okumas. :-)
--
Later,

Charlie
Michael
2004-11-14 03:18:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Hello
We have a Motion Master cnc that has a Fagor 8055M control, We mostly do
3axis wood molds and models, however sometimes we need to do some 2 axis
drilling on .250 thick aluminum. When I post out a drill program using a
peck cycle I get an error code on the control (can't think what it is
exactly) It will not do a peck. Even spent an afternoon hand writing some
small programs using the Fagor manual. Still could not get it. Does anyone
out there have a fagor 8055m that is able to do a peck drill cycle? Could
you send me a little sample program that works on your machine?
Our Cam post guy is working on it, but I have a job to drill this week, and
I'm not sure if I'll get a fix by then. Thanks for any help / suggestions.
Jim
Jim,
You say you have a job that is needed for this week, why not write the
single point motion you need and then copy and paste that single piece
of motion for as many places as you need the drilled holes to happen.
Then plug in the XY locations where the event needs to happen? Copy and
paste is easy and fast. For this week just imagine you are back in the
days before you had or used a Cam system. Your manual should give you
everything you need, if your post guy is hung up with a canned cycle he
may need to open the manual too.
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Jim
2004-11-15 02:22:49 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for your suggestions. As far as 'why I am peck drilling .250
aluminum'...well, I'm a 2bit programmer (not a machinist) and I'm sure I do
some unnecessary steps at times. Peck drilling is just a habit I've fallen
into when drilling aluminum. If I can't get this to work in time I will try
and drill without a peck cycle. We do have an actual machinist @ the
company, so I'll consult him as far as speeds and feeds go. Thanks again
If there are any new readers to this post that do have a Fagor 8055M, I'd
like to see if you have had any similar problems.
Post by Jim
Hello
We have a Motion Master cnc that has a Fagor 8055M control, We mostly do
3axis wood molds and models, however sometimes we need to do some 2 axis
drilling on .250 thick aluminum. When I post out a drill program using a
peck cycle I get an error code on the control (can't think what it is
exactly) It will not do a peck. Even spent an afternoon hand writing some
small programs using the Fagor manual. Still could not get it. Does
anyone out there have a fagor 8055m that is able to do a peck drill cycle?
Could you send me a little sample program that works on your machine?
Our Cam post guy is working on it, but I have a job to drill this week,
and I'm not sure if I'll get a fix by then. Thanks for any help /
suggestions.
Jim
tmax
2004-11-15 21:20:19 UTC
Permalink
G83 is the "Simple Deep Hole drilling cycle" and is set up with a
incremental peck amount and number of pecks. The G69 "Complex Deep Hole
Drilling Cycle" is programmed with an absolute depth, but has many more
parameters for retract amount, chip break, etc. All Fagor mill controls are
like this (8025,8050, 8055,8040) You might want to give the post guy both
options.
Tom Maxwell
Applications Engineer
Fagor Automation Corp.
714-957-9885
Post by Jim
Hello
We have a Motion Master cnc that has a Fagor 8055M control, We mostly do
3axis wood molds and models, however sometimes we need to do some 2 axis
drilling on .250 thick aluminum. When I post out a drill program using a
peck cycle I get an error code on the control (can't think what it is
exactly) It will not do a peck. Even spent an afternoon hand writing some
small programs using the Fagor manual. Still could not get it. Does anyone
out there have a fagor 8055m that is able to do a peck drill cycle? Could
you send me a little sample program that works on your machine?
Our Cam post guy is working on it, but I have a job to drill this week, and
I'm not sure if I'll get a fix by then. Thanks for any help / suggestions.
Jim
tmax
2004-11-16 23:49:33 UTC
Permalink
More Details for G69.
Sorry, but I pasted this from a PDF file and it seems to lose some spaces.
Must be a windows thing. There is a programming example at the bottom of
this post. If anyone needs a copy of the manual, They can download it in pdf
at http://www.fagor-automation.com/CNC/manuals.htm The 8040 M manual covers
programming for 8040,8050,8055. Some newer features in the manual may not be
available in your CNC due to Software/Hardware revisions.

Programming format:
G69 G98/G99 X Y Z I B C D H J K L R

G98 The toolwithdrawstothe InitialPlane,oncethe holehasbeendrilled.

G99 The toolwithdrawstothe ReferencePlane,oncethe holehasbeendrilled.

XY±5.5 Theseareoptionaland definethemovementof theaxesofthe
mainplanetoposition
thetool atthemachiningpoint.
This pointcanbeprogrammed inCartesiancoordinatesor inpolarcoordinates,and
thecoordinatesmaybe absoluteorincremental,according towhetherthemachine
isoperating inG90orG91.

Z±5.5 Definesthereferenceplane coordinate.Itcanbe
programmedinabsolutecoordinates
orincremental coordinates,inwhichcase itwillbereferred totheinitialplane.
If thisisnotprogrammed, theCNCwilltake thepositionoccupiedby thetoolatthat
moment asthereferenceplane.

I±5.5 Defines thetotaldrillingdepth. Itcanbeprogrammed
inabsolutecoordinatesor
incremental coordinatesandinthis casewillbereferred tothereferenceplane.

B5.5 Defines the drilling step in the axis longitudinal to the main plane.

C5.5 Defines to what distance from the previous drilling step, the
longitudinal axis will travel in rapid feed (G00) in its approach to the
part to make another drilling step.If this is not programmed, the value of 1
mm (0.040 inch) will be taken. If programmed with a value of 0, the CNC will
display the corresponding error.

D5.5 Defines the distance between the reference plane and the surface of the
part where the drilling is to be done. In the first drilling, this amount
will be added to "B" drilling step. If it is not programmed, a value of 0
will be taken.

H±5.5 Distance or position the longitudinal axis returns to, in rapid (G00),
after each drilling peck. A "J" value other then "0" means the distance and
if "J=0" indicates the relief position or absolute position it returns to.
When not programmed, the longitudinal axis will return to the reference
plane.

J4 Defines after how many drilling pecks the tool returns to the reference
plane in G00. A value between 0 and 9999 may be programmed. When not
programmed or programmed with a "0" value, it returns to the position
indicated by H (relief position) after each drilling peck. With "J >1" it
will return the distance indicated by "H" and every "J" steps to the
reference plane (RP).With J1, it will return to the reference plane (RP)
after each peck .With J0, it will return to the relief position indicated by
H.

K5 Defines the dwell time, in hundredths of a second, after each drilling
step, until the withdrawal begins. Should this not be programmed, the CNC
will take a value of K0.

L5.5 Defines the minimum value which the drilling step can acquire. This
parameter is used with R values other than 1mm (0.040 inch). If this is not
programmed or programmed with a value of 0, a value of 1 will be taken.

R5.5 Factor which reduces the drilling step "B". If this is not programmed
or programmed with a value of 0, a value of 1 will be taken. If R equals 1,
all the drilling steps will be the same and the programmed value "B". If R
is not equal to 1, the first drilling step will be "B", the second, "R B",
the third "R (RB)", and so on, i.e., after the second step, the new step
will be the product of factor R by the previous step. If R is selected with
a value other than 1, the CNC will not allow smaller steps than that
programmed in L.

EXAMPLE:
T1
M6
G0 G90 X0 Y0 Z0 ...................................................... ;
Starting point
G69 G98 G91 X100 Y25 Z-98 I-52 B12 C2 D2
H5 J2 K150 L3 R0.8 F100 S500 M8 ....... ; Canned cycle definition
G80
............................................................................
. ; Canned cycle cancellation
G90 X0 Y0 .................................................................
; Positioning
M30
............................................................................
; End of program

Tom
Post by tmax
G83 is the "Simple Deep Hole drilling cycle" and is set up with a
incremental peck amount and number of pecks. The G69 "Complex Deep Hole
Drilling Cycle" is programmed with an absolute depth, but has many more
parameters for retract amount, chip break, etc. All Fagor mill controls are
like this (8025,8050, 8055,8040) You might want to give the post guy both
options.
Tom Maxwell
Applications Engineer
Fagor Automation Corp.
714-957-9885
Post by Jim
Hello
We have a Motion Master cnc that has a Fagor 8055M control, We mostly do
3axis wood molds and models, however sometimes we need to do some 2 axis
drilling on .250 thick aluminum. When I post out a drill program using a
peck cycle I get an error code on the control (can't think what it is
exactly) It will not do a peck. Even spent an afternoon hand writing some
small programs using the Fagor manual. Still could not get it. Does
anyone
Post by Jim
out there have a fagor 8055m that is able to do a peck drill cycle? Could
you send me a little sample program that works on your machine?
Our Cam post guy is working on it, but I have a job to drill this week,
and
Post by Jim
I'm not sure if I'll get a fix by then. Thanks for any help / suggestions.
Jim
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