Case study HSMworks vs. Mastercam

[vinny]

Feel free to correct me when im wrong. I plan a comparison of the two.
Hopefully when I'm wrong I will be corrected.
The beauty of Usenet, to publish wrong things others can correct.
Mastercam is a standalone product, and HSMworks is a Solidworks addon for
machining.
I'm using Mastercam as the comparison because it's the number one selling
cam system in the USA, and lots in here use it.

***********
First thing I looked at is "constant angle of engagement".
The ability to rough steel with endmills using freakish feeds and speeds by
maintaining a constant load on the tool.
As far as I can tell, mastercam does not have it.
HSMworks does, they call it "adaptive clearing".
Havn't cut with it yet, just aknowledging the existance of it, or in
Mastercam's case the nonexistance of it.
Mastercam has something called Trochoidal milling, but its not the same, it
does not control the engagement of the tool to create a constant load.
It's a way of lowering the load on the tool, but its not creating path to
maintain a contant load.
***********

[vinny]

Post by vinny
Feel free to correct me when im wrong. I plan a comparison of the two.
Hopefully when I'm wrong I will be corrected.
The beauty of Usenet, to publish wrong things others can correct.
Mastercam is a standalone product, and HSMworks is a Solidworks addon for
machining.
I'm using Mastercam as the comparison because it's the number one selling
cam system in the USA, and lots in here use it.
***********
First thing I looked at is "constant angle of engagement".
The ability to rough steel with endmills using freakish feeds and speeds
by maintaining a constant load on the tool.
As far as I can tell, mastercam does not have it.
HSMworks does, they call it "adaptive clearing".
Havn't cut with it yet, just aknowledging the existance of it, or in
Mastercam's case the nonexistance of it.
Mastercam has something called Trochoidal milling, but its not the same,
it does not control the engagement of the tool to create a constant load.
It's a way of lowering the load on the tool, but its not creating path to
maintain a contant load.
***********

Already got a fix, HSMworks also sells a standalone product.

[vinny]

Post by vinny

Post by vinny
Feel free to correct me when im wrong. I plan a comparison of the two.
Hopefully when I'm wrong I will be corrected.
The beauty of Usenet, to publish wrong things others can correct.
Mastercam is a standalone product, and HSMworks is a Solidworks addon
for machining.
I'm using Mastercam as the comparison because it's the number one
selling cam system in the USA, and lots in here use it.
***********
First thing I looked at is "constant angle of engagement".
The ability to rough steel with endmills using freakish feeds and speeds
by maintaining a constant load on the tool.
As far as I can tell, mastercam does not have it.
HSMworks does, they call it "adaptive clearing".
Havn't cut with it yet, just aknowledging the existance of it, or in
Mastercam's case the nonexistance of it.
Mastercam has something called Trochoidal milling, but its not the same,
it does not control the engagement of the tool to create a constant load.
It's a way of lowering the load on the tool, but its not creating path
to maintain a contant load.
***********

Already got a fix, HSMworks also sells a standalone product.

New revelation.
I went to the camaix web site, makers of chooks for mastercam, and hidden in
there is HSMworks.
Same address, same company.

So then i go to the cimitron web site for the mastercam high speed milling
addon...and again, I see HSMworks. Same address too.

THEN....Our Mastercam reseller tells us mastercam x2's HSM package is an
addon from cimitron.

So basically...HSMworks is mastercam's high speed milling code, all three
companies are the same. So if you want to try out HSMworks and have
mastercamx, crank up the HSM, you will be using HSMworks code.

[vinny]

Post by vinny

Post by vinny

Post by vinny
Feel free to correct me when im wrong. I plan a comparison of the two.
Hopefully when I'm wrong I will be corrected.
The beauty of Usenet, to publish wrong things others can correct.
Mastercam is a standalone product, and HSMworks is a Solidworks addon
for machining.
I'm using Mastercam as the comparison because it's the number one
selling cam system in the USA, and lots in here use it.
***********
First thing I looked at is "constant angle of engagement".
The ability to rough steel with endmills using freakish feeds and speeds
by maintaining a constant load on the tool.
As far as I can tell, mastercam does not have it.
HSMworks does, they call it "adaptive clearing".
Havn't cut with it yet, just aknowledging the existance of it, or in
Mastercam's case the nonexistance of it.
Mastercam has something called Trochoidal milling, but its not the same,
it does not control the engagement of the tool to create a constant load.
It's a way of lowering the load on the tool, but its not creating path
to maintain a contant load.
***********

Already got a fix, HSMworks also sells a standalone product.

New revelation.
I went to the camaix web site, makers of chooks for mastercam, and hidden
in there is HSMworks.
Same address, same company.
So then i go to the cimitron web site for the mastercam high speed milling
addon...and again, I see HSMworks. Same address too.

Sorry, need a correction, not cimitron, but cimco.

Post by vinny
THEN....Our Mastercam reseller tells us mastercam x2's HSM package is an
addon from cimco.
So basically...HSMworks is mastercam's high speed milling code, all three
companies are the same. So if you want to try out HSMworks and have
mastercamx, crank up the HSM, you will be using HSMworks code.

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny

Post by vinny

Post by vinny
Feel free to correct me when im wrong. I plan a comparison of the two.
Hopefully when I'm wrong I will be corrected.
The beauty of Usenet, to publish wrong things others can correct.
Mastercam is a standalone product, and HSMworks is a Solidworks addon
for machining.
I'm using Mastercam as the comparison because it's the number one
selling cam system in the USA, and lots in here use it.
***********
First thing I looked at is "constant angle of engagement".
The ability to rough steel with endmills using freakish feeds and speeds
by maintaining a constant load on the tool.
As far as I can tell, mastercam does not have it.
HSMworks does, they call it "adaptive clearing".
Havn't cut with it yet, just aknowledging the existance of it, or in
Mastercam's case the nonexistance of it.
Mastercam has something called Trochoidal milling, but its not the same,
it does not control the engagement of the tool to create a constant load.
It's a way of lowering the load on the tool, but its not creating path
to maintain a contant load.
***********

Already got a fix, HSMworks also sells a standalone product.

New revelation.
I went to the camaix web site, makers of chooks for mastercam, and hidden in
there is HSMworks.
Same address, same company.
So then i go to the cimitron web site for the mastercam high speed milling
addon...and again, I see HSMworks. Same address too.
THEN....Our Mastercam reseller tells us mastercam x2's HSM package is an
addon from cimitron.
So basically...HSMworks is mastercam's high speed milling code, all three
companies are the same. So if you want to try out HSMworks and have
mastercamx, crank up the HSM, you will be using HSMworks code.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Okay. :>)

Now back to the questions I asked you. If you want to truly understand
where HSMWorks is headed it helps to understand what their philosophy
really is and what the problems really are with legacy cam companies
and their applications.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny

Post by vinny

Post by vinny
Feel free to correct me when im wrong. I plan a comparison of the two.
Hopefully when I'm wrong I will be corrected.
The beauty of Usenet, to publish wrong things others can correct.
Mastercam is a standalone product, and HSMworks is a Solidworks addon
for machining.
I'm using Mastercam as the comparison because it's the number one
selling cam system in the USA, and lots in here use it.
***********
First thing I looked at is "constant angle of engagement".
The ability to rough steel with endmills using freakish feeds and speeds
by maintaining a constant load on the tool.
As far as I can tell, mastercam does not have it.
HSMworks does, they call it "adaptive clearing".
Havn't cut with it yet, just aknowledging the existance of it, or in
Mastercam's case the nonexistance of it.
Mastercam has something called Trochoidal milling, but its not the same,
it does not control the engagement of the tool to create a constant load.
It's a way of lowering the load on the tool, but its not creating path
to maintain a contant load.
***********

Already got a fix, HSMworks also sells a standalone product.

New revelation.
I went to the camaix web site, makers of chooks for mastercam, and hidden in
there is HSMworks.
Same address, same company.
So then i go to the cimitron web site for the mastercam high speed milling
addon...and again, I see HSMworks. Same address too.
THEN....Our Mastercam reseller tells us mastercam x2's HSM package is an
addon from cimitron.
So basically...HSMworks is mastercam's high speed milling code, all three
companies are the same. So if you want to try out HSMworks and have
mastercamx, crank up the HSM, you will be using HSMworks code.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Okay. :>)
Now back to the questions I asked you. If you want to truly understand
where HSMWorks is headed it helps to understand what their philosophy
really is and what the problems really are with legacy cam companies
and their applications.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

Well you were talking about selecting geometry first.

In solidworks theres the selection manager?
It has a few options, closed loop or chain, open loop or chain. Has an area
pick. Picks a group.
chain sucks because it goes both ways. I wish it would just go one way or
at least have an option to go one way.

Then there's shortcuts, E for edges, V for vertices, etc...

There's the selection filter toolbar.
You could use invert if it picks the wrong one.

Holding down control adds or removes from a group.

What I think you meant was to use "select other" by right clicking on the
geometry and indexing thru them.
Plus you can box select if the geometry isnt identical.
Drag across and its an inside box pick, drag it up and down and its a inside
and touch box select.

As for mastercam....

It has an area select, select only, window select for inside, outside, etc..
and......it has on the standard selection toolbar a button called "toggle
verify" for indexing thru geometry on top of each other.

Basically both systems will do the "esprit highlight gimmic", and both are
just as easy to use, because you could put the icon in mastercam on the
right mouse button and call it "select other" lol

Is that what you were getting at??

Next we need to talk about patterns and why I think its better to use a
tranform of just the cut. But...after I do a few tutorials, so I can get in
sync with this software to see the whole picture.

off topic....

One thing I found, set the feedrate to 75. and it will output "F75". Set it
to 75.1 and it will output "F75.1"
The 75 without the decimal point will go reaaaalll slow. lol
Im sure its just a post processor tweak. Hmmm, havnt tried typeing in 75.0
yet. It needs a character in the tenths place to pick up the decimal.

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny
What I think you meant was to use "select other" by right clicking on the
geometry and indexing thru them.

Correct. A Window will pop up where you can decide what you wish to
choose. Hover the pointer over the item in the pop up window. When you
do this the item that your pointer is hovering over will highlight in
the graphics area. You can also scroll through this list by using the
Tab key or rolling the Middle Mouse Button.

Post by vinny
Is that what you were getting at??

Yes, I feel SolidWorks has far superior graphics and far superior
geometry selection techniques (see above) compared to Mastercam.

On of the big reasons for what I feel are far better graphics is that
SolidWorks licenses HOOPS and Mastercam doesn't

http://www.techsoft3d.com/products/3daf.html

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[Joe788]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
What I think you meant was to use "select other" by right clicking on the
geometry and indexing thru them.

Correct. A Window will pop up where you can decide what you wish to
choose. Hover the pointer over the item in the pop up window. When you
do this the item that your pointer is hovering over will highlight in
the graphics area. You can also scroll through this list by using the
Tab key or rolling the Middle Mouse Button.

Post by vinny
Is that what you were getting at??

Yes, I feel SolidWorks has far superior graphics and far superior
geometry selection techniques (see above) compared to Mastercam.
On of the big reasons for what I feel are far better graphics is that
SolidWorks licenses HOOPS and Mastercam doesn't
http://www.techsoft3d.com/products/3daf.html
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CAhttp://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#c...

Post by vinny
Well, Like I said before we always try to run new stuff like the stuff we
know. I am aware I'm doing it, and my mind is open.
Gonna run thru a few tutorials, maybe I will start thinking like the
software is designed for instead of thinking like im running mastercam.

It's only natural that you would do this. To undestand why there will
be no "Transform" toolpath function in HSMWorks look up Patterns in
the Solidworks help file. If you're not familiar with them get to know
both Linear and Circular Patterns.
To understand why SolidWorks / HSMWorks is far better at selecting
geometry to machine lookup Select / Other in the SolidWorks On-Line
Help.
Make use of SolidMentor.
www.solidmentor.com
The owner of SolidMentor wants a website free of trolls where you can
ask whatever it is you feel you need to ask without fear of being
judged for what you do or don't know by some asshole.
I have some very extensive SolidWorks tutorials with sample files that
I can give you. Same goes for Steve.
If you get stuck you can ask me whatever you wish here, by e-mail me
or on SolidMentor.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CAhttp://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#c...

Jon, can you explain the SPECIFIC differences in the geometry
selection of the two programs? What EXACTLY were you having a problem
with in Mastercam, and how is it done better in HSMWorks?

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
What I think you meant was to use "select other" by right clicking on the
geometry and indexing thru them.

Correct. A Window will pop up where you can decide what you wish to
choose. Hover the pointer over the item in the pop up window. When you
do this the item that your pointer is hovering over will highlight in
the graphics area. You can also scroll through this list by using the
Tab key or rolling the Middle Mouse Button.

Post by vinny
Is that what you were getting at??

Yes, I feel SolidWorks has far superior graphics and far superior
geometry selection techniques (see above) compared to Mastercam.

uhhhh, I compared them, they are the same.
Mastercam has the same command that can be mapped to the mouse.

Post by jon_banquer
On of the big reasons for what I feel are far better graphics is that
SolidWorks licenses HOOPS and Mastercam doesn't
http://www.techsoft3d.com/products/3daf.html

Soldworks is fast on the graphics end, compared to anything ive used in a
long time. However, HSMworks doggs it down on the graphics. Because of that
mastercam is faster for putting tool path on, and verifying etc...
This HSM stuff is nice but so is x2.

I ran a test electrode thru hsmworks and mastercamx2 high speed machining.
Looked the same, both the graphics and the code. Not 100% identical, but
the file size was damn near the same within a few donuts.
If you ask me someone who made mastercam is making this stuff, its too
identical on the cutting parameters. their even in the same order
mastercam's are?
Couldnt verify mastercam, doesnt work on the version i have, but the
verify was sweet on hsmworks. Very slow and choppy, guess this dual core
cant handle it. lol

The young guy here loves the stuff, hes already made a program and started
cutting his next electrode job with hsmworks.
he already has a comment for the beta guys, to let the parameters default
to the last cut using that operation instead of being set to defaults
evertime you run the same kind of operation.

Sounded good to me.

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny
he already has a comment for the beta guys, to let the parameters default
to the last cut using that operation instead of being set to defaults
evertime you run the same kind of operation.

Yup, that is a pain. Returns to the same preset every time which for
me is too fast. Good suggestion.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
he already has a comment for the beta guys, to let the parameters default
to the last cut using that operation instead of being set to defaults
evertime you run the same kind of operation.

Yup, that is a pain. Returns to the same preset every time which for
me is too fast. Good suggestion.

Retract that. What i found is you make an operation...say a 2d contour.
Now you want to do another conour, right click on the first one you made
and select create derived operation. All the numbers from that op will be
the defaults for the new op.

Been tweaking the post. its written in Java, pretty easy to edit.
Added a force decimal to the feedrate, so it ouputs 75. instead of 75
That decimal is very important on a haas anyway.

We are to the point the code needs zero editing.
2 production job electrodes have now been made on it. No bugs found at all.
No quirks we are forced to live with.
So far so good.

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny
Retract that. What i found is you make an operation...say a 2d contour.
Now you want to do another conour, right click on the first one you made
and select create derived operation. All the numbers from that op will be
the defaults for the new op.

Still applies to the speed in solid cut part rendering (MachineWorks)
which is what I thought you meant. The speed never remembers where you
set it.

General preset control is also needed.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/ptc-acquires-co.html#comment-88443502

[Joe788]

Post by vinny

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
What I think you meant was to use "select other" by right clicking on the
geometry and indexing thru them.

Correct. A Window will pop up where you can decide what you wish to
choose. Hover the pointer over the item in the pop up window. When you
do this the item that your pointer is hovering over will highlight in
the graphics area. You can also scroll through this list by using the
Tab key or rolling the Middle Mouse Button.

Post by vinny
Is that what you were getting at??

Yes, I feel SolidWorks has far superior graphics and far superior
geometry selection techniques (see above) compared to Mastercam.

uhhhh, I compared them, they are the same.
Mastercam has the same command that can be mapped to the mouse.

Vinny, JB is like one of those guys that calls into radio shows with a
switchboard full of sound clips from a wacky celebrity like Al
Sharpton or Martha Stewart, then uses the various soundclips to make
hilarious commentary from said celebrity. It's very entertaining, but
the answers you get will be very limited.

In JB's case, his scripted answers are from a combination of press
releases, advertisements, and his own wild, poorly conceived fantasies
about what a program should or shouldn't do, and how it should be
done.

Notice how he won't answer any of my MULTIPLE attempts at getting him
to explain the differences between the geometry selection tools in the
two programs, or the problems he's having with them in Mastercam.

And again notice that he COMPLETELY skipped the part of your reply
that talked about geometry selection, and went right on to the very
last part of your reply.

Why do you think he dodges such simple questions?

[vinny]

Post by Joe788

Post by vinny

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
What I think you meant was to use "select other" by right clicking on the
geometry and indexing thru them.

Correct. A Window will pop up where you can decide what you wish to
choose. Hover the pointer over the item in the pop up window. When you
do this the item that your pointer is hovering over will highlight in
the graphics area. You can also scroll through this list by using the
Tab key or rolling the Middle Mouse Button.

Post by vinny
Is that what you were getting at??

Yes, I feel SolidWorks has far superior graphics and far superior
geometry selection techniques (see above) compared to Mastercam.

uhhhh, I compared them, they are the same.
Mastercam has the same command that can be mapped to the mouse.

Vinny, JB is like one of those guys that calls into radio shows with a
switchboard full of sound clips from a wacky celebrity like Al
Sharpton or Martha Stewart, then uses the various soundclips to make
hilarious commentary from said celebrity. It's very entertaining, but
the answers you get will be very limited.
In JB's case, his scripted answers are from a combination of press
releases, advertisements, and his own wild, poorly conceived fantasies
about what a program should or shouldn't do, and how it should be
done.
Notice how he won't answer any of my MULTIPLE attempts at getting him
to explain the differences between the geometry selection tools in the
two programs, or the problems he's having with them in Mastercam.
And again notice that he COMPLETELY skipped the part of your reply
that talked about geometry selection, and went right on to the very
last part of your reply.
Why do you think he dodges such simple questions?

uhhh...propaganda? lol

I love software contests. Tell me what yours does and ill tell you how mine
does that better. lol
Thats when you learn stuff you never knew about your own software.
Funny part about all this is this HSMworks and Mastercam are so similar
its scary. (on the cutting part). They even list the parameters in the same
order.

[Joe788]

Post by vinny

Post by Joe788

Post by vinny

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
What I think you meant was to use "select other" by right clicking on the
geometry and indexing thru them.

Correct. A Window will pop up where you can decide what you wish to
choose. Hover the pointer over the item in the pop up window. When you
do this the item that your pointer is hovering over will highlight in
the graphics area. You can also scroll through this list by using the
Tab key or rolling the Middle Mouse Button.

Post by vinny
Is that what you were getting at??

Yes, I feel SolidWorks has far superior graphics and far superior
geometry selection techniques (see above) compared to Mastercam.

uhhhh, I compared them, they are the same.
Mastercam has the same command that can be mapped to the mouse.

Vinny, JB is like one of those guys that calls into radio shows with a
switchboard full of sound clips from a wacky celebrity like Al
Sharpton or Martha Stewart, then uses the various soundclips to make
hilarious commentary from said celebrity. It's very entertaining, but
the answers you get will be very limited.
In JB's case, his scripted answers are from a combination of press
releases, advertisements, and his own wild, poorly conceived fantasies
about what a program should or shouldn't do, and how it should be
done.
Notice how he won't answer any of my MULTIPLE attempts at getting him
to explain the differences between the geometry selection tools in the
two programs, or the problems he's having with them in Mastercam.
And again notice that he COMPLETELY skipped the part of your reply
that talked about geometry selection, and went right on to the very
last part of your reply.
Why do you think he dodges such simple questions?

uhhh...propaganda? lol
I love software contests. Tell me what yours does and ill tell you how mine
does that better. lol
Thats when you learn stuff you never knew about your own software.
Funny part about all this is this HSMworks and Mastercam are so similar
its scary. (on the cutting part). They even list the parameters in the same
order.

Nah. Not propaganda. He just can't answer the Mastercam questions,
because he doesn't have access to the program (legally), and when he
DID have access, he didn't have the first clue how to use even the
most basic geometry selection functions. I even tried to help him,
then he got all crude and pissy, so we simply laughed him right out of
the topic. That's why he will NOT try to get specific about any aspect
of Mastercam.

He won't answer my questions, but he seems very excited to speak with
you. So if you REALLY want to see some entertainment, ask JB how he
selects a chain in Mastercam. Better yet, ask him why he liked
Solidworks in 1998, then he hated it in 2006, and now he loves it
again in 2007? What changed between 2006 and 2007 that could cause
such a drastic change of heart? As a shop owner, and REAL WORLD USER
of the program, the changes seemed pretty minor to me.


"For the record I like SolidWorks" April 10, 1998
"I'd hate to be using SolidWorks" - Jon Banquer - Jan 15, 2005
"Without a doubt SaladWorks is a complete piece of shit" - Jon Banquer
- May 21, 2006
"I'm ready to commit and recommend that you should get and learn
Solidworks." Jon Banquer - Oct. 28, 2007

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny
uhhh...propaganda? lol
I love software contests. Tell me what yours does and ill tell you how mine
does that better. lol
Thats when you learn stuff you never knew about your own software.

How about I up the ante and start blowing some lying fucking scumbags
out of the water? ;>)

How about I start posting screen shots showing how bad Mastercam X2
sucks at selecting geometry and how bad the graphics in Mastercam X2
really are compared to SolidWorks / HSMWorks? :>)

Hell, anyone can do it. All you need is the readily available
Mastercam demo CD that comes free with Mastercam books.

Maybe it's time for more people to *see* the ugly truth about
Mastercam X2 compared to SolidWorks / HSMWorks.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
uhhh...propaganda? lol
I love software contests. Tell me what yours does and ill tell you how mine
does that better. lol
Thats when you learn stuff you never knew about your own software.

How about I up the ante and start blowing some lying fucking scumbags
out of the water? ;>)

i don't think anyone is lying, they just like what they use.
Me...Im just sick of the same product after all these years, im ready for a
new direction. We go from workstation software to pc software? its like
backwards. the lame ass intel multimedia home chip is not designed for
cad/cam. its designed to watch porn and read email.

Post by jon_banquer
How about I start posting screen shots showing how bad Mastercam X2
sucks at selecting geometry and how bad the graphics in Mastercam X2
really are compared to SolidWorks / HSMWorks? :>)
Hell, anyone can do it. All you need is the readily available
Mastercam demo CD that comes free with Mastercam books.

i got my demo off shareaza lol

Post by jon_banquer
Maybe it's time for more people to *see* the ugly truth about
Mastercam X2 compared to SolidWorks / HSMWorks.

I'm still curious about the costs of each product. It's not a fair
argument till the class of the software is known.
A good example are these haas mills all over the place. They are a real
bang for the buck, but sure as hell aint no high speed mill. But at 1/4th
the price there's no comparing them to a high end mill. They are in two
different classes.
Now solidworks is relatively cheap last time I looked. 3000$ range(I think)
Hsmworks I have "absolutely" no idea.????
Mastercam...grrrrr! Well, the main package is yadda, the hsm addon is
yadda, the drilling addon is yadda. It really pisses me off, because I
always seem to work where they didn't get "all" the products. I think
there's even a mastercam engraving package, used to be anyway. I WANT THE
WHOLE THING!!!!
Iv'e seen mastercam with the main components for anywhere from 3000 to
6000.?

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny
i don't think anyone is lying

"He just can't answer the Mastercam questions,because he doesn't have
access to the program (legally)"

Joe788 lying again.

"when he DID have access, he didn't have the first clue how to use
even the most basic geometry selection functions."

Joe788 lying again.

"Better yet, ask him why he liked Solidworks in 1998, then he hated it
in 2006, and now he loves it again in 2007? What changed between 2006
and 2007 that could cause such a drastic change of heart? As a shop
owner, and REAL WORLD USER of the program, the changes seemed pretty
minor to me."

Neither Joe788 or Tom Brewer have any real understanding of what C2
surfacing is and why it's needed. C2 surfacing was introduced in
SolidWorks 2007. With SolidWorks 2007 many users were able to move
away from products like Rhino and do everything inside of SolidWorks
2007.

Post by vinny
I'm still curious about the costs of each product. It's not a fair argument till the class of the software is known.

I'm not allowed to discuss the exact cost of HSMWorks in a public
forum. I can say it's competitive with Mastercam.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[Joe788]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
i don't think anyone is lying

"He just can't answer the Mastercam questions,because he doesn't have
access to the program (legally)"
Joe788 lying again.

Sure. Prove otherwise. Let's see your LEGAL seat. Let me guess, your
reseller is "Haywood Jablowme"? I mean, that's the name you were using
on the bit torrent site when you were searching for that cracked copy
of X2.

Post by jon_banquer
"when he DID have access, he didn't have the first clue how to use
even the most basic geometry selection functions."
Joe788 lying again.

I've been asking you to describe your method of chaining for 3 months.
There's a reason you won't even make an attempt. You humiliated
yourself last time.

Post by jon_banquer
"Better yet, ask him why he liked Solidworks in 1998, then he hated it
in 2006, and now he loves it again in 2007? What changed between 2006
and 2007 that could cause such a drastic change of heart? As a shop
owner, and REAL WORLD USER of the program, the changes seemed pretty
minor to me."
Neither Joe788 or Tom Brewer have any real understanding of what C2
surfacing is and why it's needed. C2 surfacing was introduced in
SolidWorks 2007. With SolidWorks 2007 many users were able to move
away from products like Rhino and do everything inside of SolidWorks
2007.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CAhttp://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#c...

So that's your reason? C2 surfacing? It turned from a "complete piece
of shit" to something that you recommend everybody buy because of C2
surfacing? Why did you like the program in 1998 when it didn't have
it? Do you know how many machine shops have a need for ANY form of
surfacing tool? Maybe 2%.

But since we're on the subject, I'd absolutely LOVE to hear you
describe C2 surfacing, and when you need to use it in a machine shop,
in YOUR OWN WORDS. NOT words copy/pasted from a competent user, or
press release.

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
i don't think anyone is lying

"He just can't answer the Mastercam questions,because he doesn't have
access to the program (legally)"
Joe788 lying again.
"when he DID have access, he didn't have the first clue how to use
even the most basic geometry selection functions."
Joe788 lying again.
"Better yet, ask him why he liked Solidworks in 1998, then he hated it
in 2006, and now he loves it again in 2007? What changed between 2006
and 2007 that could cause such a drastic change of heart? As a shop
owner, and REAL WORLD USER of the program, the changes seemed pretty
minor to me."
Neither Joe788 or Tom Brewer have any real understanding of what C2
surfacing is and why it's needed. C2 surfacing was introduced in
SolidWorks 2007. With SolidWorks 2007 many users were able to move
away from products like Rhino and do everything inside of SolidWorks
2007.

Post by vinny
I'm still curious about the costs of each product. It's not a fair
argument till the class of the software is known.

I'm not allowed to discuss the exact cost of HSMWorks in a public
forum. I can say it's competitive with Mastercam.

That's cool, knowing its in the mastercam range is all i needed to know.
I was just afraid it was like 25000?

As far as liking solidworks, then not, then liking it again is nothing more
than evolution if it has to do with the software and not personal likes.
Solidworks has changed a lot. Back in 1998 I was comparing solidworks to
pro-e. I hated solidworks, like it was this bargain basement version of pro
e.
Then last year or 2 I got into it again, and now its like huge. But I like
it because im over the pro-e thing. It still feels a little cheesy now and
then, but thats just in my mind. Pro-e was one hell of a product.
Solidworks has evolved to have a little flexability. Especially in the
drawing package.
As far as assembly, I never used it in pro-e or solidworks till last year
when I started making electrodes on it. I still only use it to extract, or
to make a setup sheet. I feel there's a lot of power hidden in that assembly
stuff especially since computers are fast enough now to do it.

problem with me is solidworks feels like half a product because it doesn't
cut anything. That's why I'm drawn to this HSMworks stuff.

[Joe788]

Post by vinny
As far as liking solidworks, then not, then liking it again is nothing more
than evolution if it has to do with the software and not personal likes.
Solidworks has changed a lot.

Has it changed enough in the last 18 months to take it from a
"complete piece of shit" to something that every machine shop should
have?

I liked it in 2006, and I still like it now. It's a fine program, and
has been for many years.

[vinny]

Post by Joe788

Post by vinny
As far as liking solidworks, then not, then liking it again is nothing more
than evolution if it has to do with the software and not personal likes.
Solidworks has changed a lot.

Has it changed enough in the last 18 months to take it from a
"complete piece of shit" to something that every machine shop should
have?
I liked it in 2006, and I still like it now. It's a fine program, and
has been for many years.

Seems like the only time it majorly changed was in 2001.
Since then its been adding stuff here and there.
HOWEVER...I got that from reading revision changes NOT experience.

Every machine shop should have it because its cheap and powerful in my
opinion.

[Joe788]

Post by vinny

Post by Joe788

Post by vinny
As far as liking solidworks, then not, then liking it again is nothing more
than evolution if it has to do with the software and not personal likes.
Solidworks has changed a lot.

Has it changed enough in the last 18 months to take it from a
"complete piece of shit" to something that every machine shop should
have?
I liked it in 2006, and I still like it now. It's a fine program, and
has been for many years.

Seems like the only time it majorly changed was in 2001.
Since then its been adding stuff here and there.
HOWEVER...I got that from reading revision changes NOT experience.
Every machine shop should have it because its cheap and powerful in my
opinion.

The revision changes you read were correct. Just a few minor
improvements every year. It's been a great program for a long time.

I wouldn't necessarily say that EVERY shop should have it, but I've
always thought most shops could benefit from it if they didn't have
any other decent method for creating solid models.

[b***@aol.com]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:42:49 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
"Better yet, ask him why he liked Solidworks in 1998, then he hated it
in 2006, and now he loves it again in 2007? What changed between 2006
and 2007 that could cause such a drastic change of heart? As a shop
owner, and REAL WORLD USER of the program, the changes seemed pretty
minor to me."
Neither Joe788 or Tom Brewer have any real understanding of what C2
surfacing is and why it's needed.

You have never shown that you know anything about C2 Jon. You have
never added any original content on the subject all you have ever done
is copy and paste on this subject.

Post by jon_banquer
C2 surfacing was introduced in
SolidWorks 2007. With SolidWorks 2007 many users were able to move
away from products like Rhino and do everything inside of SolidWorks
2007.

If C2 surfacing is really the only tool you were waiting for Jon and
you say Rhino has it then why are you recommending people pay more for
SolidWorks and not just use the much less expensive Rhino package?

Sounds much like the $650.00 you paid for SolidProfessor Video
Tutorials where you could have paid $25.00 for the Myigetit Video
Course which you said is equal to and even better in some instances.

Tom

[vinny]

Post by b***@aol.com
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:42:49 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
"Better yet, ask him why he liked Solidworks in 1998, then he hated it
in 2006, and now he loves it again in 2007? What changed between 2006
and 2007 that could cause such a drastic change of heart? As a shop
owner, and REAL WORLD USER of the program, the changes seemed pretty
minor to me."
Neither Joe788 or Tom Brewer have any real understanding of what C2
surfacing is and why it's needed.

You have never shown that you know anything about C2 Jon. You have
never added any original content on the subject all you have ever done
is copy and paste on this subject.

Post by jon_banquer
C2 surfacing was introduced in
SolidWorks 2007. With SolidWorks 2007 many users were able to move
away from products like Rhino and do everything inside of SolidWorks
2007.

If C2 surfacing is really the only tool you were waiting for Jon and
you say Rhino has it then why are you recommending people pay more for
SolidWorks and not just use the much less expensive Rhino package?
Sounds much like the $650.00 you paid for SolidProfessor Video
Tutorials where you could have paid $25.00 for the Myigetit Video
Course which you said is equal to and even better in some instances.
Tom

c2 surface editing? I didnt realize it had a name.
It's a cool thing for creating a head for a video game or a gun. I was
thinking what use would this be in the cnc machining world? iv'e used it
playing around to see if solidworks could do freeform modeling, but couldn't
think of a use. But then I remembered solidworks isnt a cad program, its a
prototype modeler. I guess it would be extremely useful if your designing
stuff like shampoo bottles, or razor handles, etc...
Question is can solidworks now be used to create models for video games,
taking over the market owned by maya, 3dsmax, and xsi?

Iv'e invested a lot of time in xsi and still suck. But if solidworks can
now do it...whahoo!!!!
I wonder how good the tools are to manually edit surfs like that in
solidworks.

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny
c2 surface editing? I didnt realize it had a name.

Tommy Brewer hasn't quite figured out that C2 surfacing in SolidWorks
is parametric where as in Rhino it's not. He's not the sharpest guy in
the world. Tommy Brewer is very much stuck in his own little world and
thinks his narrow little world applies to everyone. Same for Joe788.

Both propaganda gurus are much like Joseph Goebbels with their lies
and tactics.

Without C2 surfacing what you design often looks like a toy vs. the
real thing. It's a must for many users.

Joe788 has never designed anything with cosmetic flowing lines in his
life and has no clue why they would be needed. I doubt Tom Brewer has
either. The best a lying, sodomized shitbag like Joe788 can come up
with it that most machine shops don't need C2 surfacing. His doesn't
but lots of people and some shops do need C2 surfacing. It all depends
on what you want to accomplish. Until SolidWorks got C2 surfacing in
SolidWorks 2007 it was severely handicapped for many users. SolidWorks
no longer is handicapped in this way. What SolidWorks still needs is
much better documentation on surfacing, though. Perhaps Matt Lombard's
next book will be better because it appears to focus on large projects
and it's a lot harder to bore someone to death with bad writing when
you do a large-scale project:

Loading Image...

While this is not as original as what James Carruthers does, it does
look to be a big step in the right direction for documenting
SolidWorks surfacing. Here is an example of the kind of extensive
tutorial James Carruthers does for Rhino that I consider to be much
more original:

http://www.hydraulicdesign.net/fvs3-sample/concept-a-sample.htm


Both Joe788 and Tommy Brewer are also too fucking stupid to understand
why Multi-Bodies are critical for machining job shops using
SolidWorks. After being really impressed with SolidWorks great start,
I and lots of shops I knew put SolidWorks on the self until Multi-Body
support became available. I don't think Multi-Body came into effect
until SolidWorks 2003. Without Multi-Body support you were forced into
assembly mode to do the simplest things. Back in 2007, I was living in
Connecticut and teaching SolidWorks part time. I had a 2 seat
educational license for JB Tech.

Joe788 is also too fucking stupid to know that both CNC Software
(Mastercam) and Surfware (Surfcam) at one time had cam products that
ran inside of SolidWorks but killed development of their products that
ran inside SolidWorks when SolidWorks failed to come-up with a way to
create and edit imported surfaces. CNC Software's product was called
SolidMaster. I think Surfware's product was called NC Solids 2 and NC
Solids 3. Both products were killed for damn good reason... SolidWorks
Corp. failed to put the needed surfacing tools into SolidWorks in a
timely manner! These kinds of FACTS elude lying assholes like Tommy
Brewer and sodomized Joe788 because they wish to rewrite history.

It's been a long evolution from a great start with SolidWorks, to
lagging badly, to becoming the much more real world tool that
SolidWork is today. Both Tommy Brewer and Joe788 much like Joseph
Goebbels wish to restate reality and invent their own. Propaganda is
the right term for what they try and pull. Pretty easy to see though
if one knows their SolidWorks history.

Make no mistake. I don't think this is all about one product. I don't
discount Autodesk Inventor, SolidEdge, Pro/E, etc. ability to compete
with SolidWorks marketshare in the near future.

I also don't dismiss the likelihood of SpaceClaim (non-history based
modeling) to gain acceptance and have cam run inside of it. See the
link below my sig for comments I made that were just published
yesterday. I'm still waiting for Tom Brewer or Joe788 to have any of
their comments on cadcam published in a leading online journal /
blog.

What I do dismiss is legacy code programs like Surfcam, Mastercam and
Gibbscam having any chance of competing with systems that run inside
of SolidWorks, etc. In many ways SolidWorks / HSMWorks already blows
away what's in Mastercam making Mastercam look like the outdated
program it really is.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/ptc-acquires-co.html#comment-88277734

[jon_banquer]

"Back in 2007, I was living in Connecticut and teaching SolidWorks
part time. I had a 2 seat educational license for JB Tech."

Correction. 1997.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/ptc-acquires-co.html#comment-88277734

[Joe788]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
c2 surface editing? I didnt realize it had a name.

Tommy Brewer hasn't quite figured out that C2 surfacing in SolidWorks
is parametric where as in Rhino it's not. He's not the sharpest guy in
the world. Tommy Brewer is very much stuck in his own little world and
thinks his narrow little world applies to everyone. Same for Joe788.
Both propaganda gurus are much like Joseph Goebbels with their lies
and tactics.
Without C2 surfacing what you design often looks like a toy vs. the
real thing. It's a must for many users.
Joe788 has never designed anything with cosmetic flowing lines in his
life and has no clue why they would be needed. I doubt Tom Brewer has
either. The best a lying, sodomized shitbag like Joe788 can come up
with it that most machine shops don't need C2 surfacing. His doesn't
but lots of people and some shops do need C2 surfacing. It all depends
on what you want to accomplish. Until SolidWorks got C2 surfacing in
SolidWorks 2007 it was severely handicapped for many users. SolidWorks
no longer is handicapped in this way. What SolidWorks still needs is
much better documentation on surfacing, though. Perhaps Matt Lombard's
next book will be better because it appears to focus on large projects
and it's a lot harder to bore someone to death with bad writing when
http://dezignstuff.com/images/Picture2.jpg
While this is not as original as what James Carruthers does, it does
look to be a big step in the right direction for documenting
SolidWorks surfacing. Here is an example of the kind of extensive
tutorial James Carruthers does for Rhino that I consider to be much
http://www.hydraulicdesign.net/fvs3-sample/concept-a-sample.htm
Both Joe788 and Tommy Brewer are also too fucking stupid to understand
why Multi-Bodies are critical for machining job shops using
SolidWorks. After being really impressed with SolidWorks great start,
I and lots of shops I knew put SolidWorks on the self until Multi-Body
support became available. I don't think Multi-Body came into effect
until SolidWorks 2003. Without Multi-Body support you were forced into
assembly mode to do the simplest things. Back in 2007, I was living in
Connecticut and teaching SolidWorks part time. I had a 2 seat
educational license for JB Tech.
Joe788 is also too fucking stupid to know that both CNC Software
(Mastercam) and Surfware (Surfcam) at one time had cam products that
ran inside of SolidWorks but killed development of their products that
ran inside SolidWorks when SolidWorks failed to come-up with a way to
create and edit imported surfaces. CNC Software's product was called
SolidMaster. I think Surfware's product was called NC Solids 2 and NC
Solids 3. Both products were killed for damn good reason... SolidWorks
Corp. failed to put the needed surfacing tools into SolidWorks in a
timely manner! These kinds of FACTS elude lying assholes like Tommy
Brewer and sodomized Joe788 because they wish to rewrite history.
It's been a long evolution from a great start with SolidWorks, to
lagging badly, to becoming the much more real world tool that
SolidWork is today. Both Tommy Brewer and Joe788 much like Joseph
Goebbels wish to restate reality and invent their own. Propaganda is
the right term for what they try and pull. Pretty easy to see though
if one knows their SolidWorks history.
Make no mistake. I don't think this is all about one product. I don't
discount Autodesk Inventor, SolidEdge, Pro/E, etc. ability to compete
with SolidWorks marketshare in the near future.
I also don't dismiss the likelihood of SpaceClaim (non-history based
modeling) to gain acceptance and have cam run inside of it. See the
link below my sig for comments I made that were just published
yesterday. I'm still waiting for Tom Brewer or Joe788 to have any of
their comments on cadcam published in a leading online journal /
blog.
What I do dismiss is legacy code programs like Surfcam, Mastercam and
Gibbscam having any chance of competing with systems that run inside
of SolidWorks, etc. In many ways SolidWorks / HSMWorks already blows
away what's in Mastercam making Mastercam look like the outdated
program it really is.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CAhttp://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/ptc-acquires-co.html#c...

HAHAHA!!! All of that rambling and raving, and you didn't mention
ANYTHING that would lead ANYBODY to believe you actually know what
you're talking about.

Is that your answer? That C2 surfacing is SO important, that NOT
having it made Solidworks 2006 a "complete piece of shit"?

Explain to us why "multi-bodies are SO important for machining"???
Just last week you were ranting and raving about how great it was to
use assemblies in a CAM program. But now you HAVE to have multi-bodies
because going into assembly mode is too much of a pain?

Awfully hard to keep your rants straight when you don't have any
practical use for any of the shit you're ranting about, isn't it? You
still liked Solidworks when it didn't support Multi-bodies, and then
called it a "complete piece of shit" when it did?


"For the record I like SolidWorks" April 10, 1998
"I'd hate to be using SolidWorks" - Jon Banquer - Jan 15, 2005
"Without a doubt SaladWorks is a complete piece of shit" - Jon Banquer
- May 21, 2006
"I'm ready to commit and recommend that you should get and learn
Solidworks." Jon Banquer - Oct. 28, 2007


PS- Why won't you address any of the questions about the difference
between HSMWorks' and Mastercam's geometry selection tools?

[b***@aol.com]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:52:56 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
Both propaganda gurus are much like Joseph Goebbels with their lies
and tactics.

LOL....ye ole trump card

[b***@aol.com]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:52:56 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
Both propaganda gurus are much like Joseph Goebbels with their lies
and tactics.

Asked you before Jon but you still refuse to answer.

What lies Jon?

And please be specific.

Tom

[b***@aol.com]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:52:56 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
Tommy Brewer hasn't quite figured out that C2 surfacing in SolidWorks
is parametric where as in Rhino it's not.

You are the one that was touting and how great Rhino is with C2
Surfacing and how SolidWorks was such a piece of shit.

Have you changed your mind again?
Or are you just having trouble keeping your stories straight?

Tom

[b***@aol.com]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:52:56 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
Without C2 surfacing what you design often looks like a toy vs. the
real thing. It's a must for many users.

What specifically are you using it for that you MUST have it?

What specifically were you being paid to design when you worked as a
machine operator for a job shop in AZ and then San Diego that you
couldn't do in SW 2006 (that you called a complete piece of shit) that
you can now do using SW 2007 (that you say you love)?

Tom

[b***@aol.com]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:52:56 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
SolidWorks 2007 it was severely handicapped for many users.

Still is but if you actually used the program professionally for a
wide variation of parts, products and assemblies you would know that.
No program can be all things to all people.

Tom

[b***@aol.com]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:52:56 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
I was living in
Connecticut and teaching SolidWorks part time. I had a 2 seat
educational license for JB Tech.

JB Tech.....LOL...how'd that work out for ya?

Oh ya, it didn't, you had to flee town one step ahead of the law and
take a job as a machine operator in another state.

Tom

[b***@aol.com]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:52:56 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
I was living in
Connecticut and teaching SolidWorks part time. I had a 2 seat
educational license for JB Tech.

Trained lots of clueless renegades did you?

"Lots of us "clueless renegades" around" - Jon Banquer - July 4, 2007

[b***@aol.com]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:52:56 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
I don't think Multi-Body came into effect
until SolidWorks 2003. Without Multi-Body support you were forced into
assembly mode to do the simplest things.

A smoke screen, this has nothing to do with why you said SW 2006 is a
complete piece of shit and you love SW 2007.

Tom

[b***@aol.com]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:52:56 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
CNC Software's product was called
SolidMaster. I think Surfware's product was called NC Solids 2 and NC
Solids 3. Both products were killed for damn good reason... SolidWorks
Corp. failed to put the needed surfacing tools into SolidWorks in a
timely manner! These kinds of FACTS elude lying assholes

Another smoke screen, this still has nothing to do with why you said
SW 2006 is a complete piece of shit and you love SW 2007.

Tom

[b***@aol.com]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:52:56 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
It's been a long evolution from a great start with SolidWorks, to
lagging badly, to becoming the much more real world tool that
SolidWork is today.

Still has nothing to do with why you said SW 2006 is a complete piece
of shit and you love SW 2007.

Tom

[b***@aol.com]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:52:56 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
much like Joseph
Goebbels wish to restate reality and invent their own. Propaganda is
the right term for what they try and pull. Pretty easy to see though
if one knows their SolidWorks history.

Just Jon getting more and more desperate to divert attention away from
his mistakes and misconceptions.

According to Jon he hasn't known anything specific about SolidWorks
since he hasn't been a user for the past ten years but it didn't stop
him from calling it a complete piece of shit last year.

"Without a doubt SaladWorks is a complete piece of shit" - Jon Banquer
- May 21, 2006

"I've been away from SolidWorks for almost ten years." - Jon Banquer -
Aug 2007

"SolidWorks is consuming every available minute of my learning time
right now." - Jon Banquer - Aug 12, 2007

"The program has changed so much in ten years that I'm still way
behind where I need to be." - Jon Banquer - Aug. 26, 2007

[b***@aol.com]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:52:56 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
Make no mistake. I don't think

[b***@aol.com]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:52:56 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
See the
link below my sig for comments I made that were just published
yesterday.

Published....ROFLMAO.....responding to a public comments section is
being published....LOL.

Tom

[Joe788]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
uhhh...propaganda? lol
I love software contests. Tell me what yours does and ill tell you how mine
does that better. lol
Thats when you learn stuff you never knew about your own software.

How about I up the ante and start blowing some lying fucking scumbags
out of the water? ;>)

I've been asking you to do this for quite some time. I'd love to see
it.

Post by jon_banquer
How about I start posting screen shots showing how bad Mastercam X2
sucks at selecting geometry and how bad the graphics in Mastercam X2
really are compared to SolidWorks / HSMWorks? :>)

I've been asking you to do this too. You refuse.

Post by jon_banquer
Hell, anyone can do it. All you need is the readily available
Mastercam demo CD that comes free with Mastercam books.

No, no, no. We want to see YOUR explanation of the difference between
HSMWorks and Mastercam geometry selection tools, NOT something copy/
pasted from somebody else. Not that it's going to matter, Vinny
already inadvertently proved you have no idea what you're talking
about.

Post by jon_banquer
Maybe it's time for more people to *see* the ugly truth about
Mastercam X2 compared to SolidWorks / HSMWorks.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CAhttp://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#c...

HA! Yeah, let's see it! You already stuck your foot in your mouth on
the geometry selection issue. I can't wait to see you floundering
around, trying to make assemblies and configurations take the place of
levels. (Then again, the fact that you even compare those functions
simply proves that you have no idea what you're doing)

[Cliff]

Post by jon_banquer
Yes, I feel SolidWorks has far superior graphics and far superior
geometry selection techniques (see above) compared to Mastercam.
On of the big reasons for what I feel are far better graphics is that
SolidWorks licenses HOOPS and Mastercam doesn't
http://www.techsoft3d.com/products/3daf.html

Can anyone spot the clueless idiot?

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny
Feel free to correct me when im wrong. I plan a comparison of the two.
Hopefully when I'm wrong I will be corrected.
The beauty of Usenet, to publish wrong things others can correct.
Mastercam is a standalone product, and HSMworks is a Solidworks addon for
machining.
I'm using Mastercam as the comparison because it's the number one selling
cam system in the USA, and lots in here use it.
***********
First thing I looked at is "constant angle of engagement".
The ability to rough steel with endmills using freakish feeds and speeds by
maintaining a constant load on the tool.
As far as I can tell, mastercam does not have it.
HSMworks does, they call it "adaptive clearing".
Havn't cut with it yet, just aknowledging the existance of it, or in
Mastercam's case the nonexistance of it.
Mastercam has something called Trochoidal milling, but its not the same, it
does not control the engagement of the tool to create a constant load.
It's a way of lowering the load on the tool, but its not creating path to
maintain a contant load.
***********

I think CIMCO sells an add-in for toolpaths for Mastercam that
contains their "adaptive clearing". Obviously it costs extra.

They like to try and keep it separate but CIMCO and HSMWorks are
basically the same company even if they have established separate
companies for both products.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
Feel free to correct me when im wrong. I plan a comparison of the two.
Hopefully when I'm wrong I will be corrected.
The beauty of Usenet, to publish wrong things others can correct.
Mastercam is a standalone product, and HSMworks is a Solidworks addon for
machining.
I'm using Mastercam as the comparison because it's the number one selling
cam system in the USA, and lots in here use it.
***********
First thing I looked at is "constant angle of engagement".
The ability to rough steel with endmills using freakish feeds and speeds by
maintaining a constant load on the tool.
As far as I can tell, mastercam does not have it.
HSMworks does, they call it "adaptive clearing".
Havn't cut with it yet, just aknowledging the existance of it, or in
Mastercam's case the nonexistance of it.
Mastercam has something called Trochoidal milling, but its not the same, it
does not control the engagement of the tool to create a constant load.
It's a way of lowering the load on the tool, but its not creating path to
maintain a contant load.
***********

I think CIMCO sells an add-in for toolpaths for Mastercam that
contains their "adaptive clearing". Obviously it costs extra.
They like to try and keep it separate but CIMCO and HSMWorks are
basically the same company even if they have established separate
companies for both products.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

Oh that little snippet of info is worth a bunch to me.
We almost bought that addon this week.
Gotta go do some research to see just how much of the same code it is.
Thanks.

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny
Oh that little snippet of info is worth a bunch to me.
We almost bought that addon this week.
Gotta go do some research to see just how much of the same code it is.
Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Glad you found it helpful. I have to renew my HSMWorks license. Didn't
notice it expired as I have been so busy with SolidWorks and I don't
fire up any SolidWorks add-ins on start up and instead prefer to
manually start them.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

[vinny]

Post by vinny
Feel free to correct me when im wrong. I plan a comparison of the two.
Hopefully when I'm wrong I will be corrected.
The beauty of Usenet, to publish wrong things others can correct.
Mastercam is a standalone product, and HSMworks is a Solidworks addon for
machining.
I'm using Mastercam as the comparison because it's the number one selling
cam system in the USA, and lots in here use it.
***********
First thing I looked at is "constant angle of engagement".
The ability to rough steel with endmills using freakish feeds and speeds
by maintaining a constant load on the tool.
As far as I can tell, mastercam does not have it.
HSMworks does, they call it "adaptive clearing".
Havn't cut with it yet, just aknowledging the existance of it, or in
Mastercam's case the nonexistance of it.
Mastercam has something called Trochoidal milling, but its not the same,
it does not control the engagement of the tool to create a constant load.
It's a way of lowering the load on the tool, but its not creating path to
maintain a contant load.
***********

Ok, so I give the stuff a good old rockwell test. Hardness lol

So here's the test...

Previously installed solidworks sp0 in my home box. 2.8 gig dell(dell sux)
1 gig ram. crap graphics intel extreme 2.

START CLOCK>>>>>>

Download and install the current HSM works beta.
(roadrunner, fast download, 2 minutes max)
Version point something.

download licence file from email. small executable.

start HSMworks, which in turn starts Solidworks.
adds "one" pulldown to solidworks main menu.

load sample part, semi complicated multi connection pipe elbow. Like a
thermostat housing on a car with multiple pipes, 3 pipes actually. 3" total
size.

using 1/8" ballmill parallel plane, or slice cut the part at 90 degrees to
.0001 accuracy and .0001 surface finish.

Then verify or simulate using solids the part.

Then make a setup sheet and print it.(beautiful setup sheet template)

Then post process the part for a haas and edit the program, then save the
program, and save the solidworks file.

TOTAL TIME....
under 5 minutes.

I am in shock. I swear this stuff is easier than even bobcam!
It's like the anti-esprit!
5 minutes! think about it for a minute? Used to have to send people to
another part of the country for a week, now, code in 5 minutes, saved and
verified!

There's no way in hell anybodys gonna make a cut in mastercam in 5 minutes
without ever seeing it before.
I see people taking...nevermind....
Guys, so far it's the easiest stuff Ive ever used. First impressions suck
I know, so the tests go on.


So far, tiny download. Flawless install. Simplistic menu system, since
theres just one.lol
so far so good... I got nothing to bitch about......yet.

**********************************

[b***@aol.com]

Post by vinny
I am in shock. I swear this stuff is easier than

I had similar unexpected positive experience with SolidWorks 2007 and
CamWorks 2007 right out of the box.

Tom

[Black Dragon]

Post by vinny
5 minutes! think about it for a minute? Used to have to send people to
another part of the country for a week, now, code in 5 minutes, saved and
verified!
There's no way in hell anybodys gonna make a cut in mastercam in 5 minutes
without ever seeing it before.

That's not a valid comparison. Not by a long shot even.

You have got experience with Solidworks.

I could install the HSM module for Mastercam, have code in 30 seconds
and be making chips 15 seconds after that.

HTH

[jon_banquer]

Post by Black Dragon
That's not a valid comparison. Not by a long shot even.
You have got experience with Solidworks.
I could install the HSM module for Mastercam, have code in 30 seconds
and be making chips 15 seconds after that.
HTH
--
Black Dragon http://improve-usenet.org
Fond of equestrians, Mabel
Looked for true love in the stable.
But she found the studs,
For her were all duds,
Now she's out with the leg of a table.

BD,

I sent you an e-mail a few weeks ago and never heard back. Did you get
what I sent you? Could you drop me an e-mail when you get a chance.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[Black Dragon]

Post by jon_banquer
I sent you an e-mail a few weeks ago and never heard back. Did you get
what I sent you? Could you drop me an e-mail when you get a chance.

If you sent it to the last address I emailed you from, my work address,
I left those worthless shitbags behind last month, a few weeks after
they let go of my son for no good reason. I didn't get anything from you
here at home, I'll forward you the address.

[jon_banquer]

Post by Black Dragon
If you sent it to the last address I emailed you from, my work address,
I left those worthless shitbags behind last month, a few weeks after
they let go of my son for no good reason. I didn't get anything from you
here at home, I'll forward you the address.

Thanks. Got it and responded.

Jon Banquer
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[vinny]

Post by Black Dragon

Post by vinny
5 minutes! think about it for a minute? Used to have to send people to
another part of the country for a week, now, code in 5 minutes, saved and
verified!
There's no way in hell anybodys gonna make a cut in mastercam in 5 minutes
without ever seeing it before.

That's not a valid comparison. Not by a long shot even.
You have got experience with Solidworks.
I could install the HSM module for Mastercam, have code in 30 seconds
and be making chips 15 seconds after that.
HTH

very true.
I got my first correction. Thanks.

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny
I am in shock. I swear this stuff is easier than even bobcam!
It's like the anti-esprit!
5 minutes! think about it for a minute? Used to have to send people to
another part of the country for a week, now, code in 5 minutes, saved and
verified!

Someone "gets it". :>)

Others never will.

IMO, the most powerful and beautiful things in cadcam software are
always engineered like this. Very few people understand this art in
software.

It's Sunday morning. I just got up and checked my e-mail. Not only do
I have a new license for HSMWorks but also I've got access to brand
new 4th axis functions for HSMWorks (the license controls what you can
or can't see) that are what I have been asking for to test as you have
seen the correspondence. Please do not discuss the details of this
here!

You may not ultimately choose HSMWorks because it does not have all
the features that Mastercam X2.HSMWorks is still very early in it's
development but there is not doubt that HSMWorks is a major step
forward and has a good part of what I have been looking for, for so
long. Legacy programs like Mastercam and Gibbscam are in real trouble,
we just don't have progressive enough cadcam users in this forum and
on other forums to discuss why yet.

IMO, if BD spent the time with Cimatron I don't think he want to use
Mastercam X2 any longer. Cimatron is not legacy code like Gibbs and
Mastercam are. While Mastercam X2 was rewritten from the ground up a
few years ago CNC Software blew it big time. It was dated when they
released it and it's very poorly engineered in many ways. CNC Software
does not see the big picture. Cimatron and HSMWorks do. Featurecam has
a new enough code base and I believe it can be successfully brought
forward because its underlying architecture is excellent. Surfcam,
Mastercam, Gibbscam.... all suffer from very poor software engineering
and dated legacy code.

For years Garlicdude has complained about Surfcam's UI. While Surfcam
maybe further behind UI wise than Gibbs or Mastercam this is only the
tip of the iceberg. Legacy code and very poor engineering are not
unique to Surfcam.


Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[Joe788]

Post by jon_banquer
Legacy programs like Mastercam and Gibbscam are in real trouble,
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CAhttp://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#c...

I'm sure they're shaking in their boots!

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
I am in shock. I swear this stuff is easier than even bobcam!
It's like the anti-esprit!
5 minutes! think about it for a minute? Used to have to send people to
another part of the country for a week, now, code in 5 minutes, saved and
verified!

Someone "gets it". :>)
Others never will.
IMO, the most powerful and beautiful things in cadcam software are
always engineered like this. Very few people understand this art in
software.
It's Sunday morning. I just got up and checked my e-mail. Not only do
I have a new license for HSMWorks but also I've got access to brand
new 4th axis functions for HSMWorks (the license controls what you can
or can't see) that are what I have been asking for to test as you have
seen the correspondence. Please do not discuss the details of this
here!
You may not ultimately choose HSMWorks because it does not have all
the features that Mastercam X2.HSMWorks is still very early in it's
development but there is not doubt that HSMWorks is a major step
forward and has a good part of what I have been looking for, for so
long. Legacy programs like Mastercam and Gibbscam are in real trouble,
we just don't have progressive enough cadcam users in this forum and
on other forums to discuss why yet.
IMO, if BD spent the time with Cimatron I don't think he want to use
Mastercam X2 any longer. Cimatron is not legacy code like Gibbs and
Mastercam are. While Mastercam X2 was rewritten from the ground up a
few years ago CNC Software blew it big time. It was dated when they
released it and it's very poorly engineered in many ways. CNC Software
does not see the big picture. Cimatron and HSMWorks do. Featurecam has
a new enough code base and I believe it can be successfully brought
forward because its underlying architecture is excellent. Surfcam,
Mastercam, Gibbscam.... all suffer from very poor software engineering
and dated legacy code.
For years Garlicdude has complained about Surfcam's UI. While Surfcam
maybe further behind UI wise than Gibbs or Mastercam this is only the
tip of the iceberg. Legacy code and very poor engineering are not
unique to Surfcam.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

It's not so cut and dry. They all have their pluses and minus's or they
wouldnt be so widely used.
Surfcam for example...A few years back I was able to load it and make
programs with no training or reading the help files. Thats not gonna happen
with cimetron, or even mastercam for that part.
then there's cost.
Mastercam is a cheap product. You get every cnc programming option
available for a cheap price. Iv'e seen people get mastercam for 2 grand. All
that stuff for 2 grand is insane!
So the question is HSMworks...the price.
If this stuff is 25,000, then it doesnt matter what it can do.
If its 3 grand wahoo!

Mastercam is a huge product.
milling,lathe,wire,solids,drafting,hsm,2d,3d,2.5d,dilling, it goes on
forever.
It's not so crappy, it's just cheap. For the price its a bargain.

And if you have a special need, there's lots of addons for under 500 bucks.
I have to say mastercam is a good product.
And it is a legacy product. Maybe they built the gui from scratch, but the
product is built on code from previous versions.
That doesn't mean its bad, there's years of tweaking in that stuff.
Nobody in X complains about bugs in the cutting, its always the interface.

I want something more because I'm trying to get too much from a haas. For
the most part mastercam works great.

However, it's a solidworks world right now. Especially in my area. This
crap of saving iges files to open them up in mastercam seems silly.
But if you don't have a need for solidworks, mastercam is a good product.
Too bad mastercam solids suck.

[Black Dragon]

Post by vinny
Too bad mastercam solids suck.

I've pulled and machined (on real, high speed mills) literally thousands
of EDM electrodes from imported solids using Mastercam solids. It does
that very well IMO, but not near as good as the Cimatron E electrode demos
I saw.

I've tried designing molds with Mastercam solids too. Now THAT was
fucking painful. :-/

[vinny]

Post by Black Dragon

Post by vinny
Too bad mastercam solids suck.

I've pulled and machined (on real, high speed mills) literally thousands
of EDM electrodes from imported solids using Mastercam solids. It does
that very well IMO, but not near as good as the Cimatron E electrode demos
I saw.
I've tried designing molds with Mastercam solids too. Now THAT was
fucking painful. :-/
--
Black Dragon http://improve-usenet.org

Well, comparing mastercam solids with solidworks solids is an unfair fight.
There is no comparison. Ive used pro e and solidworks and nothing else
except trying to use mastercam. its day and night comparing those products.
But Im not saying it doesnt work. It just sucks relative to solidworks.
Weird part is they use the same engine for solids.? The one pro-e wrote.
But sometimes it comes down to experience. I'm sure I was trying to do
mastercam solids like I do solidworks, and that might be a mistake.
We always try to do cad/cam like the system we know best. thats why I feel
its so important for the help files to have a "philosophy" of how their
product was designed so you can get in sync with the code writers.

[Joe788]

Post by vinny
However, it's a solidworks world right now. Especially in my area. This
crap of saving iges files to open them up in mastercam seems silly.
But if you don't have a need for solidworks, mastercam is a good product.
Too bad mastercam solids suck.

Vinny, just open the Solidworks file in Mastercam. You don't need to
save it as an IGES. X2 opens A LOT of different formats.

Earlier this year I had a model from a customer who uses the newest
version of Inventor. I couldn't open it in Solidworks 2007, but
Mastercam X2 opened it right up (after downloading the Inventor stuff
from Mastercam.com)

[vinny]

Post by Joe788

Post by vinny
However, it's a solidworks world right now. Especially in my area. This
crap of saving iges files to open them up in mastercam seems silly.
But if you don't have a need for solidworks, mastercam is a good product.
Too bad mastercam solids suck.

Vinny, just open the Solidworks file in Mastercam. You don't need to
save it as an IGES. X2 opens A LOT of different formats.
Earlier this year I had a model from a customer who uses the newest
version of Inventor. I couldn't open it in Solidworks 2007, but
Mastercam X2 opened it right up (after downloading the Inventor stuff
from Mastercam.com)

I downloaded and installed mastercam direct, and that worked ok. problem is
with solidworks and this new service pack every month. Everytime they
updated it wouldnt work.
But it sounds like your saying mastercam doesn't need it anymore? Like it
opens solidworks without the addon?

[J. Carroll]

Post by vinny

Post by Joe788

Post by vinny
However, it's a solidworks world right now. Especially in my area.
This crap of saving iges files to open them up in mastercam seems
silly. But if you don't have a need for solidworks, mastercam is a
good product.
Too bad mastercam solids suck.

Vinny, just open the Solidworks file in Mastercam. You don't need to
save it as an IGES. X2 opens A LOT of different formats.
Earlier this year I had a model from a customer who uses the newest
version of Inventor. I couldn't open it in Solidworks 2007, but
Mastercam X2 opened it right up (after downloading the Inventor stuff
from Mastercam.com)

I downloaded and installed mastercam direct, and that worked ok.
problem is with solidworks and this new service pack every month.
Everytime they updated it wouldnt work.
But it sounds like your saying mastercam doesn't need it anymore?
Like it opens solidworks without the addon?

Why don't you do your own homework and provide a little feedback Vinny?
You know, give a little back........
Just a thought, and hey, you know I haven't many to spare. LOL

[vinny]

Post by J. Carroll

Post by vinny

Post by Joe788

Post by vinny
However, it's a solidworks world right now. Especially in my area.
This crap of saving iges files to open them up in mastercam seems
silly. But if you don't have a need for solidworks, mastercam is a
good product.
Too bad mastercam solids suck.

Vinny, just open the Solidworks file in Mastercam. You don't need to
save it as an IGES. X2 opens A LOT of different formats.
Earlier this year I had a model from a customer who uses the newest
version of Inventor. I couldn't open it in Solidworks 2007, but
Mastercam X2 opened it right up (after downloading the Inventor stuff
from Mastercam.com)

I downloaded and installed mastercam direct, and that worked ok.
problem is with solidworks and this new service pack every month.
Everytime they updated it wouldnt work.
But it sounds like your saying mastercam doesn't need it anymore?
Like it opens solidworks without the addon?

Why don't you do your own homework and provide a little feedback Vinny?
You know, give a little back........
Just a thought, and hey, you know I haven't many to spare. LOL

sorry, my laptop isnt where I can get to it till monday. I don't have
mastercam in my ass.
lol

Post by J. Carroll
--
JC

[vinny]

Post by J. Carroll

Post by vinny

Post by Joe788

Post by vinny
However, it's a solidworks world right now. Especially in my area.
This crap of saving iges files to open them up in mastercam seems
silly. But if you don't have a need for solidworks, mastercam is a
good product.
Too bad mastercam solids suck.

Vinny, just open the Solidworks file in Mastercam. You don't need to
save it as an IGES. X2 opens A LOT of different formats.
Earlier this year I had a model from a customer who uses the newest
version of Inventor. I couldn't open it in Solidworks 2007, but
Mastercam X2 opened it right up (after downloading the Inventor stuff
from Mastercam.com)

I downloaded and installed mastercam direct, and that worked ok.
problem is with solidworks and this new service pack every month.
Everytime they updated it wouldnt work.
But it sounds like your saying mastercam doesn't need it anymore?
Like it opens solidworks without the addon?

Why don't you do your own homework and provide a little feedback Vinny?
You know, give a little back........
Just a thought, and hey, you know I haven't many to spare. LOL

Mastercam x2 opens solidworks part files, but this web site is selling a
mastercam direct addon for "x2" ?
http://www.shopwareinc.com/maintenance-downloads.html

Why would you need that?
Because my guess is it opens solidworks part files but treats them like a
"dumb" solid. But with mastercam direct it saves it with the tree intact.
Just a guess.

If I try to give feedback I just end up with more questions.

[Joe788]

Post by vinny

Post by J. Carroll

Post by vinny

Post by Joe788

Post by vinny
However, it's a solidworks world right now. Especially in my area.
This crap of saving iges files to open them up in mastercam seems
silly. But if you don't have a need for solidworks, mastercam is a
good product.
Too bad mastercam solids suck.

Vinny, just open the Solidworks file in Mastercam. You don't need to
save it as an IGES. X2 opens A LOT of different formats.
Earlier this year I had a model from a customer who uses the newest
version of Inventor. I couldn't open it in Solidworks 2007, but
Mastercam X2 opened it right up (after downloading the Inventor stuff
from Mastercam.com)

I downloaded and installed mastercam direct, and that worked ok.
problem is with solidworks and this new service pack every month.
Everytime they updated it wouldnt work.
But it sounds like your saying mastercam doesn't need it anymore?
Like it opens solidworks without the addon?

Why don't you do your own homework and provide a little feedback Vinny?
You know, give a little back........
Just a thought, and hey, you know I haven't many to spare. LOL

Mastercam x2 opens solidworks part files, but this web site is selling a
mastercam direct addon for "x2" ?http://www.shopwareinc.com/maintenance-downloads.html
Why would you need that?
Because my guess is it opens solidworks part files but treats them like a
"dumb" solid. But with mastercam direct it saves it with the tree intact.
Just a guess.
If I try to give feedback I just end up with more questions.

Even though X2 opens a Solidworks file direct, I always save
the .sldprt file as a parasolid before opening it (the Para.) in
Mastercam, because then I have that record in case of later revisions.
If the .sldprt files changes, the .xb file that I saved before opening
in Mastercam will always be there, unchanged. Some of my folders have
one .sldprt file, 2 or 3 parasolid files, and then just the single
Mastercam file. It makes revisions MUCH easier to track.

[J. Carroll]

Post by vinny

Post by J. Carroll

Post by vinny

Post by Joe788

Post by vinny
However, it's a solidworks world right now. Especially in my
area. This crap of saving iges files to open them up in mastercam
seems silly. But if you don't have a need for solidworks,
mastercam is a good product.
Too bad mastercam solids suck.

Vinny, just open the Solidworks file in Mastercam. You don't need
to save it as an IGES. X2 opens A LOT of different formats.
Earlier this year I had a model from a customer who uses the newest
version of Inventor. I couldn't open it in Solidworks 2007, but
Mastercam X2 opened it right up (after downloading the Inventor
stuff from Mastercam.com)

I downloaded and installed mastercam direct, and that worked ok.
problem is with solidworks and this new service pack every month.
Everytime they updated it wouldnt work.
But it sounds like your saying mastercam doesn't need it anymore?
Like it opens solidworks without the addon?

Why don't you do your own homework and provide a little feedback
Vinny? You know, give a little back........
Just a thought, and hey, you know I haven't many to spare. LOL

Mastercam x2 opens solidworks part files, but this web site is
selling a mastercam direct addon for "x2" ?
http://www.shopwareinc.com/maintenance-downloads.html
Why would you need that?
Because my guess is it opens solidworks part files but treats them
like a "dumb" solid. But with mastercam direct it saves it with the
tree intact. Just a guess.

Something like that I believe.
Prior versions extracted hole attributes and the like and passed them to
MasterCam in order to automate machining operations.
You might need SolidWorks.

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny

Post by vinny

Post by vinny
Too bad mastercam solids suck.

Agree.

Post by vinny

Post by vinny
I downloaded and installed mastercam direct, and that worked ok.
problem is with solidworks and this new service pack every month.
Everytime they updated it wouldnt work.

It doesn't work anyway. See below.

Post by vinny
Mastercam x2 opens solidworks part files, but this web site is selling a
mastercam direct addon for "x2" ?http://www.shopwareinc.com/maintenance-downloads.html
Why would you need that?

Because Mastercam Direct only works on simple parts and sometimes
Mastercam Direct also fails on those! Try it yourself. It's crap.

Post by vinny
Because my guess is it opens solidworks part files but treats them like a
"dumb" solid. But with mastercam direct it saves it with the tree intact.
Just a guess.
If I try to give feedback I just end up with more questions.

How well does Mastercam Direct really work at reading SolidWorks files
keeping the history intact?

Posted on the E-Mastercam Forum:

"Only works with simple straight forward parts, certain types of
features WILL get lost."

"The direct translator feature is more of a selling feature than a
useful tool."

"There are many features that done in Sw are not properly brought into
MC resulting in incomplete and incorrect models."

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny

Post by vinny

Post by vinny
Too bad mastercam solids suck.

Agree.

Post by vinny

Post by vinny
I downloaded and installed mastercam direct, and that worked ok.
problem is with solidworks and this new service pack every month.
Everytime they updated it wouldnt work.

It doesn't work anyway. See below.

Post by vinny
Mastercam x2 opens solidworks part files, but this web site is selling a
mastercam direct addon for "x2"
?http://www.shopwareinc.com/maintenance-downloads.html
Why would you need that?

Because Mastercam Direct only works on simple parts and sometimes
Mastercam Direct also fails on those! Try it yourself. It's crap.

Post by vinny
Because my guess is it opens solidworks part files but treats them like a
"dumb" solid. But with mastercam direct it saves it with the tree intact.
Just a guess.
If I try to give feedback I just end up with more questions.

How well does Mastercam Direct really work at reading SolidWorks files
keeping the history intact?

Well, if it keeps the tree intact, it can only see things from solidworks
that it supports itself. If solidworks has a feature mastercam solids
doesn't it can't possibly deal with it.
And solidworks has a lot of features. Bazillions of em.
question is how about the latest version of mastercam x2 mr2 solids, I
wonder how close to solidworks it is.

After a little reading, the mastercam direct is used to open mastercam
while in a solidworks session keeping the parametrics. So you can make
changes to the model in solidworks and be able to regen the toolpath from
the changes. Without it, all you can do in mastercam is reload the model and
repick the geometry, then regenerate. So it seems useful if you have lots of
semi simple revisions all the time going on.

[Joe788]

Post by vinny

Post by Joe788

Post by vinny
However, it's a solidworks world right now. Especially in my area. This
crap of saving iges files to open them up in mastercam seems silly.
But if you don't have a need for solidworks, mastercam is a good product.
Too bad mastercam solids suck.

Vinny, just open the Solidworks file in Mastercam. You don't need to
save it as an IGES. X2 opens A LOT of different formats.
Earlier this year I had a model from a customer who uses the newest
version of Inventor. I couldn't open it in Solidworks 2007, but
Mastercam X2 opened it right up (after downloading the Inventor stuff
from Mastercam.com)

I downloaded and installed mastercam direct, and that worked ok. problem is
with solidworks and this new service pack every month. Everytime they
updated it wouldnt work.
But it sounds like your saying mastercam doesn't need it anymore? Like it
opens solidworks without the addon?

Vinny, in X2, just go to "File>Open"

Then change the file type to .sldprt.

[b***@aol.com]

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 08:21:26 -0700, jon_banquer

Post by jon_banquer
is a major step
forward and has a good part of what I have been looking for

Dumb down enough that even you can use it?

Tom

[Garlicdude]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
I am in shock. I swear this stuff is easier than even bobcam!
It's like the anti-esprit!
5 minutes! think about it for a minute? Used to have to send people to
another part of the country for a week, now, code in 5 minutes, saved and
verified!

Someone "gets it". :>)
Others never will.
IMO, the most powerful and beautiful things in cadcam software are
always engineered like this. Very few people understand this art in
software.
It's Sunday morning. I just got up and checked my e-mail. Not only do
I have a new license for HSMWorks
For years Garlicdude has complained about Surfcam's UI. While Surfcam
maybe further behind UI wise than Gibbs or Mastercam this is only the
tip of the iceberg. Legacy code and very poor engineering are not
unique to Surfcam.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

Jon, How much does a seat of SolidWorks cost, I don't need
the mold stuff, or to the best of my knowledge any other extras.

How much for a seat of 2 1/2 D HSM Works? Again I think a
basic package. What is their policy on updates and maintenance?

SolidWorks is used extensively in Silly Con Gulch. Be a
good thing to learn and as you say, and I've said for years,
Smurf is a PITA, at least for me.

If Vinny likes it it must be good because he knows Bing, and
anyone that knows Bing........

Best,
Steve

[jon_banquer]

Steve,

Post by Garlicdude
Jon, How much does a seat of SolidWorks cost, I don't need
the mold stuff, or to the best of my knowledge any other extras.

Here is the break down on how SolidWorks is offered. Feel free to ask
any question you have.

http://www.solidworks.com/pages/products/3dmech.html

Post by Garlicdude
How much for a seat of 2 1/2 D HSM Works?

Don't know. HSMWorks 2008 is still in beta. HSMWorks 2008 will work
with SolidWorks 2005-2008. I'll e-mail my contact at HSMWorks and
ask.

Post by Garlicdude
SolidWorks is used extensively in Silly Con Gulch. Be a
good thing to learn and as you say, and I've said for years,
Smurf is a PITA, at least for me.

For years I would not tell you it was time to go with VX because I
hated the cam in VX and loved the cad. I'm ready to commit and
recommend that you should get and learn Solidworks. SolidWorks has
fixed what drove me to leave and its rate of development exceeds any
product I know of. Is SolidWorks perfect? No but it's very good and
will continue to get better.

You're in for a long learning curve of you decide to go with
SolidWorks but I'm prepared to help you and to give you what you need
to learn SolidWorks. Web sites like SolidMentor mean all the help you
could possibly need is available with no trolls, no ads and for free.
SolidMentor is going to try and cater very hard to newbies and
students as well as "experts".

Post by Garlicdude
If Vinny likes it it must be good because he knows Bing, and
anyone that knows Bing........

Vinny's attitude and approach is a refreshing change in this cadcam
mentally dead newsgroup. Now if only SVL would decide to learn
SolidWorks... even though he hates cadcam and SolidWorks this would
make me very happy. If BD gets serious about Cimatron this would also
make me happy. The rest of this newsgroup seems to be cadcam brain
dead.

If you decide to learn SolidWorks I promise to push you so hard that
you will learn to really hate me. ;>)


Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608





















Again I think a

Post by Garlicdude
basic package. What is their policy on updates and maintenance?
SolidWorks is used extensively in Silly Con Gulch. Be a
good thing to learn and as you say, and I've said for years,
Smurf is a PITA, at least for me.
If Vinny likes it it must be good because he knows Bing, and
anyone that knows Bing........
Best,
Steve
--
Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude ©
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The Worldhttp://tinyurl.com/2avg58

I have not asked about pricing on HSMWorks. I will send off an e-mail
and ask.

[Joe788]

Post by jon_banquer
Steve,
I'm ready to commit and
recommend that you should get and learn Solidworks. SolidWorks has
fixed what drove me to leave and its rate of development exceeds any
product I know of. Is SolidWorks perfect? No but it's very good and
will continue to get better.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CAhttp://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#c...

Jon, what changed so drastically between Solidworks 1998 that you
liked, then Solidworks 2005/6 that was a "complete piece of shit"
that you'd "hate to be using"?

And now you think every machine shop in America should be using
Solidworks 2007.

That's a pretty drastic change in position. I don't see anything
between SW06 and SW07 that should make anybody go from hating the
product to loving it. So I'm really interested in hearing your
reasoning.


"For the record I like SolidWorks" April 10, 1998

"I'd hate to be using SolidWorks" - Jon Banquer - Jan 15, 2005

"Without a doubt SaladWorks is a complete piece of shit" - Jon Banquer
- May 21, 2006

"I'm ready to commit and recommend that you should get and learn
Solidworks." Jon Banquer - Oct. 28, 2007

[Garlicdude]

Post by jon_banquer
Steve,

Post by Garlicdude
Jon, How much does a seat of SolidWorks cost, I don't need
the mold stuff, or to the best of my knowledge any other extras.

Here is the break down on how SolidWorks is offered. Feel free to ask
any question you have.
http://www.solidworks.com/pages/products/3dmech.html

Post by Garlicdude
How much for a seat of 2 1/2 D HSM Works?

Don't know. HSMWorks 2008 is still in beta. HSMWorks 2008 will work
with SolidWorks 2005-2008. I'll e-mail my contact at HSMWorks and
ask.

Post by Garlicdude
SolidWorks is used extensively in Silly Con Gulch. Be a
good thing to learn and as you say, and I've said for years,
Smurf is a PITA, at least for me.

You're in for a long learning curve of you decide to go with
SolidWorks but I'm prepared to help you and to give you what you need
to learn SolidWorks. Web sites like SolidMentor mean all the help you
could possibly need is available with no trolls, no ads and for free.
SolidMentor is going to try and cater very hard to newbies and
students as well as "experts".

The long learning curve is what's kept me from doing much
with SolidWorks. I've dinked around a bit and have gone
through some of the tutorial.

With SolidWorks being a defacto standard here in the Valley
it's becoming imperative that I take the time to learn it.
Having the time to get up to a reasonable speed with it has
always been the problem. With Smurf making zero
improvements to the usability of the program, and none in
sight, it's time to think about moving on.

I'll have a look at the SolidMentor site. Hope that your
right that newbies aren't ignored.

Thanks for your offer of help.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Garlicdude
If Vinny likes it it must be good because he knows Bing, and
anyone that knows Bing........

Vinny's attitude and approach is a refreshing change in this cadcam
mentally dead newsgroup.

Agree

Post by jon_banquer
If you decide to learn SolidWorks I promise to push you so hard that
you will learn to really hate me. ;>)

Hate is such a strong word, maybe loath is a better choice?
:)

Post by jon_banquer
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

Best,
Steve

[vinny]

Post by vinny

Post by vinny
Feel free to correct me when im wrong. I plan a comparison of the two.
Hopefully when I'm wrong I will be corrected.
The beauty of Usenet, to publish wrong things others can correct.
Mastercam is a standalone product, and HSMworks is a Solidworks addon
for machining.
I'm using Mastercam as the comparison because it's the number one
selling cam system in the USA, and lots in here use it.
***********
First thing I looked at is "constant angle of engagement".
The ability to rough steel with endmills using freakish feeds and speeds
by maintaining a constant load on the tool.
As far as I can tell, mastercam does not have it.
HSMworks does, they call it "adaptive clearing".
Havn't cut with it yet, just aknowledging the existance of it, or in
Mastercam's case the nonexistance of it.
Mastercam has something called Trochoidal milling, but its not the same,
it does not control the engagement of the tool to create a constant load.
It's a way of lowering the load on the tool, but its not creating path
to maintain a contant load.
***********

Ok, so I give the stuff a good old rockwell test. Hardness lol
So here's the test...
Previously installed solidworks sp0 in my home box. 2.8 gig dell(dell sux)
1 gig ram. crap graphics intel extreme 2.
START CLOCK>>>>>>
Download and install the current HSM works beta.
(roadrunner, fast download, 2 minutes max)
Version point something.
download licence file from email. small executable.
start HSMworks, which in turn starts Solidworks.
adds "one" pulldown to solidworks main menu.
load sample part, semi complicated multi connection pipe elbow. Like a
thermostat housing on a car with multiple pipes, 3 pipes actually. 3"
total size.
using 1/8" ballmill parallel plane, or slice cut the part at 90 degrees to
.0001 accuracy and .0001 surface finish.
Then verify or simulate using solids the part.
Then make a setup sheet and print it.(beautiful setup sheet template)
Then post process the part for a haas and edit the program, then save the
program, and save the solidworks file.
TOTAL TIME....
under 5 minutes.
I am in shock. I swear this stuff is easier than even bobcam!
It's like the anti-esprit!
5 minutes! think about it for a minute? Used to have to send people to
another part of the country for a week, now, code in 5 minutes, saved and
verified!

Post by vinny

Post by vinny
There's no way in hell anybodys gonna make a cut in mastercam in 5
minutes without ever seeing it before.

Removing the last sentence. It wasn't a fair comparison.

Post by vinny
I see people taking...nevermind....
Guys, so far it's the easiest stuff Ive ever used. First impressions suck
I know, so the tests go on.
So far, tiny download. Flawless install. Simplistic menu system, since
theres just one.lol
so far so good... I got nothing to bitch about......yet.
**********************************

[vinny]

Post by vinny

Post by vinny
Feel free to correct me when im wrong. I plan a comparison of the two.
Hopefully when I'm wrong I will be corrected.
The beauty of Usenet, to publish wrong things others can correct.
Mastercam is a standalone product, and HSMworks is a Solidworks addon
for machining.
I'm using Mastercam as the comparison because it's the number one
selling cam system in the USA, and lots in here use it.
***********
First thing I looked at is "constant angle of engagement".
The ability to rough steel with endmills using freakish feeds and speeds
by maintaining a constant load on the tool.
As far as I can tell, mastercam does not have it.
HSMworks does, they call it "adaptive clearing".
Havn't cut with it yet, just aknowledging the existance of it, or in
Mastercam's case the nonexistance of it.
Mastercam has something called Trochoidal milling, but its not the same,
it does not control the engagement of the tool to create a constant load.
It's a way of lowering the load on the tool, but its not creating path
to maintain a contant load.
***********

Ok, so I give the stuff a good old rockwell test. Hardness lol
So here's the test...
Previously installed solidworks sp0 in my home box. 2.8 gig dell(dell sux)
1 gig ram. crap graphics intel extreme 2.
START CLOCK>>>>>>
Download and install the current HSM works beta.
(roadrunner, fast download, 2 minutes max)
Version point something.
download licence file from email. small executable.
start HSMworks, which in turn starts Solidworks.
adds "one" pulldown to solidworks main menu.
load sample part, semi complicated multi connection pipe elbow. Like a
thermostat housing on a car with multiple pipes, 3 pipes actually. 3"
total size.
using 1/8" ballmill parallel plane, or slice cut the part at 90 degrees to
.0001 accuracy and .0001 surface finish.
Then verify or simulate using solids the part.
Then make a setup sheet and print it.(beautiful setup sheet template)
Then post process the part for a haas and edit the program, then save the
program, and save the solidworks file.
TOTAL TIME....
under 5 minutes.
I am in shock. I swear this stuff is easier than even bobcam!
It's like the anti-esprit!
5 minutes! think about it for a minute? Used to have to send people to
another part of the country for a week, now, code in 5 minutes, saved and
verified!

snipped wrong info.

Post by vinny
I see people taking...nevermind....
Guys, so far it's the easiest stuff Ive ever used. First impressions suck
I know, so the tests go on.
So far, tiny download. Flawless install. Simplistic menu system, since
theres just one.lol
so far so good... I got nothing to bitch about......yet.
**********************************

OK, code comparison.
I ran the same parrallell plane cut on both systems.
I zoomed up on the toolpath and was quite surprised at what i saw.
(this is not g code, only visual)

The mastercam code looked ok, but zooming in real close there were a lot of
sharp corners, lots of toolpaths that changed direction radically. Nothing
new there. of course this is NON HSM toolpath. Not a fair comparison, I will
use HSM later in another comparison.
HSMworks toolpath...no sharp corners. In fact there was nothing even
remotely sharp.

The problem is i only have mastercam X2, no MR anything. Not even a service
pack. Not a fair fight I agree.

[vinny]

Post by vinny

Post by vinny

Post by vinny
Feel free to correct me when im wrong. I plan a comparison of the two.
Hopefully when I'm wrong I will be corrected.
The beauty of Usenet, to publish wrong things others can correct.
Mastercam is a standalone product, and HSMworks is a Solidworks addon
for machining.
I'm using Mastercam as the comparison because it's the number one
selling cam system in the USA, and lots in here use it.
***********
First thing I looked at is "constant angle of engagement".
The ability to rough steel with endmills using freakish feeds and speeds
by maintaining a constant load on the tool.
As far as I can tell, mastercam does not have it.
HSMworks does, they call it "adaptive clearing".
Havn't cut with it yet, just aknowledging the existance of it, or in
Mastercam's case the nonexistance of it.
Mastercam has something called Trochoidal milling, but its not the same,
it does not control the engagement of the tool to create a constant load.
It's a way of lowering the load on the tool, but its not creating path
to maintain a contant load.
***********

Ok, so I give the stuff a good old rockwell test. Hardness lol
So here's the test...
Previously installed solidworks sp0 in my home box. 2.8 gig dell(dell sux)
1 gig ram. crap graphics intel extreme 2.
START CLOCK>>>>>>
Download and install the current HSM works beta.
(roadrunner, fast download, 2 minutes max)
Version point something.
download licence file from email. small executable.
start HSMworks, which in turn starts Solidworks.
adds "one" pulldown to solidworks main menu.
load sample part, semi complicated multi connection pipe elbow. Like a
thermostat housing on a car with multiple pipes, 3 pipes actually. 3"
total size.
using 1/8" ballmill parallel plane, or slice cut the part at 90 degrees
to .0001 accuracy and .0001 surface finish.
Then verify or simulate using solids the part.
Then make a setup sheet and print it.(beautiful setup sheet template)
Then post process the part for a haas and edit the program, then save the
program, and save the solidworks file.
TOTAL TIME....
under 5 minutes.
I am in shock. I swear this stuff is easier than even bobcam!
It's like the anti-esprit!
5 minutes! think about it for a minute? Used to have to send people to
another part of the country for a week, now, code in 5 minutes, saved and
verified!

snipped wrong info.

Post by vinny
I see people taking...nevermind....
Guys, so far it's the easiest stuff Ive ever used. First impressions
suck I know, so the tests go on.
So far, tiny download. Flawless install. Simplistic menu system, since
theres just one.lol
so far so good... I got nothing to bitch about......yet.
**********************************

OK, code comparison.
I ran the same parrallell plane cut on both systems.
I zoomed up on the toolpath and was quite surprised at what i saw.
(this is not g code, only visual)
The mastercam code looked ok, but zooming in real close there were a lot
of sharp corners, lots of toolpaths that changed direction radically.
Nothing new there. of course this is NON HSM toolpath. Not a fair
comparison, I will use HSM later in another comparison.
HSMworks toolpath...no sharp corners. In fact there was nothing even
remotely sharp.
The problem is i only have mastercam X2, no MR anything. Not even a
service pack. Not a fair fight I agree.
****************************************

Ok, I found something really useful. maybe mastercam does this, and if it
does please tell me how.
When cutting a simple contour, you can have multiple passes, and rough and
finish passes. But lets say you want to have a spring pass after your depths
and passes.
How to in mastercam?
I usually end up dragging the op to make a copy and editing it to do one
pass.
In HSMworks, there's a checkbox for repeating the pass. If mastercam can do
this someone let me know. This is extremely useful. Who doesn't want to make
a spring pass when done cutting? Even on graphite.
Looking at the options for contouring its the same as mastercam, word for
word. Like its been copied.
Except the repeat finish pass option, AND I cant see a ramp option. I dont
use the ramp in mastercam, but i know a few people that use it daily.

********************************************

[vinny]

Post by vinny

Post by vinny

Post by vinny

Post by vinny
Feel free to correct me when im wrong. I plan a comparison of the two.
Hopefully when I'm wrong I will be corrected.
The beauty of Usenet, to publish wrong things others can correct.
Mastercam is a standalone product, and HSMworks is a Solidworks addon
for machining.
I'm using Mastercam as the comparison because it's the number one
selling cam system in the USA, and lots in here use it.
***********
First thing I looked at is "constant angle of engagement".
The ability to rough steel with endmills using freakish feeds and
speeds by maintaining a constant load on the tool.
As far as I can tell, mastercam does not have it.
HSMworks does, they call it "adaptive clearing".
Havn't cut with it yet, just aknowledging the existance of it, or in
Mastercam's case the nonexistance of it.
Mastercam has something called Trochoidal milling, but its not the
same, it does not control the engagement of the tool to create a
constant load.
It's a way of lowering the load on the tool, but its not creating path
to maintain a contant load.
***********

Ok, so I give the stuff a good old rockwell test. Hardness lol
So here's the test...
Previously installed solidworks sp0 in my home box. 2.8 gig dell(dell sux)
1 gig ram. crap graphics intel extreme 2.
START CLOCK>>>>>>
Download and install the current HSM works beta.
(roadrunner, fast download, 2 minutes max)
Version point something.
download licence file from email. small executable.
start HSMworks, which in turn starts Solidworks.
adds "one" pulldown to solidworks main menu.
load sample part, semi complicated multi connection pipe elbow. Like a
thermostat housing on a car with multiple pipes, 3 pipes actually. 3"
total size.
using 1/8" ballmill parallel plane, or slice cut the part at 90 degrees
to .0001 accuracy and .0001 surface finish.
Then verify or simulate using solids the part.
Then make a setup sheet and print it.(beautiful setup sheet template)
Then post process the part for a haas and edit the program, then save
the program, and save the solidworks file.
TOTAL TIME....
under 5 minutes.
I am in shock. I swear this stuff is easier than even bobcam!
It's like the anti-esprit!
5 minutes! think about it for a minute? Used to have to send people to
another part of the country for a week, now, code in 5 minutes, saved
and verified!

snipped wrong info.

Post by vinny
I see people taking...nevermind....
Guys, so far it's the easiest stuff Ive ever used. First impressions
suck I know, so the tests go on.
So far, tiny download. Flawless install. Simplistic menu system, since
theres just one.lol
so far so good... I got nothing to bitch about......yet.
**********************************

OK, code comparison.
I ran the same parrallell plane cut on both systems.
I zoomed up on the toolpath and was quite surprised at what i saw.
(this is not g code, only visual)
The mastercam code looked ok, but zooming in real close there were a lot
of sharp corners, lots of toolpaths that changed direction radically.
Nothing new there. of course this is NON HSM toolpath. Not a fair
comparison, I will use HSM later in another comparison.
HSMworks toolpath...no sharp corners. In fact there was nothing even
remotely sharp.
The problem is i only have mastercam X2, no MR anything. Not even a
service pack. Not a fair fight I agree.
****************************************

Ok, I found something really useful. maybe mastercam does this, and if it
does please tell me how.
When cutting a simple contour, you can have multiple passes, and rough and
finish passes. But lets say you want to have a spring pass after your
depths and passes.
How to in mastercam?
I usually end up dragging the op to make a copy and editing it to do one
pass.
In HSMworks, there's a checkbox for repeating the pass. If mastercam can
do this someone let me know. This is extremely useful. Who doesn't want to
make a spring pass when done cutting? Even on graphite.
Looking at the options for contouring its the same as mastercam, word for
word. Like its been copied.
Except the repeat finish pass option, AND I cant see a ramp option. I dont
use the ramp in mastercam, but i know a few people that use it daily.
********************************************

it ramps, nevermind.
************************************************

[vinny]

Post by vinny

Post by vinny

Post by vinny

Post by vinny

Post by vinny
Feel free to correct me when im wrong. I plan a comparison of the
two. Hopefully when I'm wrong I will be corrected.
The beauty of Usenet, to publish wrong things others can correct.
Mastercam is a standalone product, and HSMworks is a Solidworks addon
for machining.
I'm using Mastercam as the comparison because it's the number one
selling cam system in the USA, and lots in here use it.
***********
First thing I looked at is "constant angle of engagement".
The ability to rough steel with endmills using freakish feeds and
speeds by maintaining a constant load on the tool.
As far as I can tell, mastercam does not have it.
HSMworks does, they call it "adaptive clearing".
Havn't cut with it yet, just aknowledging the existance of it, or in
Mastercam's case the nonexistance of it.
Mastercam has something called Trochoidal milling, but its not the
same, it does not control the engagement of the tool to create a
constant load.
It's a way of lowering the load on the tool, but its not creating
path to maintain a contant load.
***********

Ok, so I give the stuff a good old rockwell test. Hardness lol
So here's the test...
Previously installed solidworks sp0 in my home box. 2.8 gig dell(dell sux)
1 gig ram. crap graphics intel extreme 2.
START CLOCK>>>>>>
Download and install the current HSM works beta.
(roadrunner, fast download, 2 minutes max)
Version point something.
download licence file from email. small executable.
start HSMworks, which in turn starts Solidworks.
adds "one" pulldown to solidworks main menu.
load sample part, semi complicated multi connection pipe elbow. Like a
thermostat housing on a car with multiple pipes, 3 pipes actually. 3"
total size.
using 1/8" ballmill parallel plane, or slice cut the part at 90 degrees
to .0001 accuracy and .0001 surface finish.
Then verify or simulate using solids the part.
Then make a setup sheet and print it.(beautiful setup sheet template)
Then post process the part for a haas and edit the program, then save
the program, and save the solidworks file.
TOTAL TIME....
under 5 minutes.
I am in shock. I swear this stuff is easier than even bobcam!
It's like the anti-esprit!
5 minutes! think about it for a minute? Used to have to send people to
another part of the country for a week, now, code in 5 minutes, saved
and verified!

snipped wrong info.

Post by vinny
I see people taking...nevermind....
Guys, so far it's the easiest stuff Ive ever used. First impressions
suck I know, so the tests go on.
So far, tiny download. Flawless install. Simplistic menu system, since
theres just one.lol
so far so good... I got nothing to bitch about......yet.
**********************************

OK, code comparison.
I ran the same parrallell plane cut on both systems.
I zoomed up on the toolpath and was quite surprised at what i saw.
(this is not g code, only visual)
The mastercam code looked ok, but zooming in real close there were a lot
of sharp corners, lots of toolpaths that changed direction radically.
Nothing new there. of course this is NON HSM toolpath. Not a fair
comparison, I will use HSM later in another comparison.
HSMworks toolpath...no sharp corners. In fact there was nothing even
remotely sharp.
The problem is i only have mastercam X2, no MR anything. Not even a
service pack. Not a fair fight I agree.
****************************************

Ok, I found something really useful. maybe mastercam does this, and if it
does please tell me how.
When cutting a simple contour, you can have multiple passes, and rough
and finish passes. But lets say you want to have a spring pass after your
depths and passes.
How to in mastercam?
I usually end up dragging the op to make a copy and editing it to do one
pass.
In HSMworks, there's a checkbox for repeating the pass. If mastercam can
do this someone let me know. This is extremely useful. Who doesn't want
to make a spring pass when done cutting? Even on graphite.
Looking at the options for contouring its the same as mastercam, word for
word. Like its been copied.
Except the repeat finish pass option, AND I cant see a ramp option. I
dont use the ramp in mastercam, but i know a few people that use it
daily.
********************************************

it ramps, nevermind.
************************************************

Doesnt seem to be able to transform operations. Maybe i havnt figured it out
yet.
But thats a must have.
It's a cheat. cheats kick ass. Sometimes this solids stuff wont let you do
fake things like cutting something not on the model by rotating or
transforming an operation.
Guess I'll bring this one to their attention.
******************************************************

[Mike C]

Post by vinny
Then post process the part for a haas and edit the program, then save the
program, and save the solidworks file.
TOTAL TIME....
under 5 minutes.

Just curious, what did you have to edit? Do you always manually edit code?



Mike

[vinny]

Post by Mike C

Post by vinny
Then post process the part for a haas and edit the program, then save the
program, and save the solidworks file.
TOTAL TIME....
under 5 minutes.

Just curious, what did you have to edit? Do you always manually edit code?
Mike

No. It was just a time test to use all the basic operations of a cam system.
The only time i edit programs anymore is on a haas minimill, if a tool is
long, I remove the g28 z0 at the begining, becasue its lower than it can cut
and will crash the part if Im cutting above that spot.

However, I usually send code to a floppy from the editor. Its a habit from
way back. Everyonce in a while I'll grab the wrong post, or its on its
default fanuc post, shows right up when the code doesnt look familiar.

[jon_banquer]

"I plan a comparison of the two."

How about you start with the basics so others reading along who want
to learn more about the differences can understand where SolidWorks /
HSMWorks kicks Mastercam's ass or where SolidWorks / HSMWorks leaves
something to be desired / still needs work.

I think the first place to start is right here:

Compare the tools that SolidWorks / HSMWorks has for selecting
geometry to machine to MasterCAM X2 geometry selection tools. Which
are easier, better and more powerful?

Run some tests on copying machining operations and pasting them in the
SolidWorks / HSMWorks machining operations tree. Then do the same in
MasterCAM X2's machining operations tree. What do you immediately
notice?

How many dialog boxes obscure the view of the model in SolidWorks /
HSMWorks compared to Mastercam X2? Do you prefer the extensive
"Property Manager" approach taken by SolidWorks / HSMWorks or the
floating dialog boxes in Mastercam X2?

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer
"I plan a comparison of the two."
How about you start with the basics so others reading along who want
to learn more about the differences can understand where SolidWorks /
HSMWorks kicks Mastercam's ass or where SolidWorks / HSMWorks leaves
something to be desired / still needs work.

I think it's complicated as hell. They each got things going on that
rock...and suck.

Post by jon_banquer
Compare the tools that SolidWorks / HSMWorks has for selecting
geometry to machine to MasterCAM X2 geometry selection tools. Which
are easier, better and more powerful?

Mastercam x's selection power seems like it takes a little while, kinda
grows on ya. Use it at first and its a pain, but later on your in a racecar.
Lots of little things in mastercam x you cant see till you read about it or
someone tells you.

Post by jon_banquer
Run some tests on copying machining operations and pasting them in the
SolidWorks / HSMWorks machining operations tree. Then do the same in
MasterCAM X2's machining operations tree. What do you immediately
notice?

HSMworks wont tranform or copy operations, or copy them between views or
faces.
I guess you could make copies or instances and place them where you want,
example for tombstoning. But wouldn't it be a better approach to have it
reference the one operation making a smaller assembly or part? Type in an
angle of rotation, or an offset distance and number of copies.

Post by jon_banquer
How many dialog boxes obscure the view of the model in SolidWorks /
HSMWorks compared to Mastercam X2? Do you prefer the extensive
"Property Manager" approach taken by SolidWorks / HSMWorks or the
floating dialog boxes in Mastercam X2?

Personally, I love the simplistic one menu approach. But lots of people like
dialogue boxes. Especially younger people.
One thing I will say about HSMworks is it's linear. You pick a command, say
contour. then just start at the top of the property manager and go down.
mastercam has pages...
However, the pages have their place. When making moldbases or die bases its
handy to have pages, because the things you do are almost the same, usually
just holes. So once you get a page filled out, it becomes the default, so
the next op you do is already filled out.

The optimum way to run an interface like X is with 2 monitors.
And obviously at least a 19 incher. bigger the better on an interface like
that.
Then you gotta tweak it. It's very customizable, especially if you add the
vb part.
One thing I like better on X is the backround color, making it black on
the bottom and dark blue on the top is the bomb!
Seriously though, mastercam is all things to all people. You can strip it
down for your own work, and your style. Put the ops toggle on the spacebar
for instance.

Here's a homemade tweak to be funny, but will work..
Get an old keyboard, bust out all the keys but the spacebar. map the
spacebar to the operations page toggle on and off. Now plug that keyboard in
as a second keyboard and drop it on the floor. Now you have footpetal
control on the ops page. I have one for video games.


I wonder if it will engrave? I wonder where the text will come from? maybe
it will cut in drawing? I'm off to see!

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny
Mastercam x's selection power seems like it takes a little while, kinda
grows on ya. Use it at first and its a pain, but later on your in a racecar.
Lots of little things in mastercam x you cant see till you read about it or
someone tells you.

Don't agree. SolidWorks / HSMWorks selection tools are far superior so
far. Still have much more testing to do.

Post by vinny
HSMworks wont tranform or copy operations, or copy them between views or
faces.

I don't have any problems copying and pasting operations in
SolidWorks/ HSMWorks. IMO, it's far superior to Mastercam X2 Machining
Operations Manager. No hesitation / delays, no red arrow to deal with!
All you need to do is create a new Reference Geometry Coordinate
System in SolidWorks and change to the Reference Coordinate System in
the copied operation in HSMWorks. See Tutorial 3 in the HSMWorks HTML
Help: 3+2 Machining. I *greatly prefer* using SolidWorks to create
Reference Geometry Coordinate Systems vs. using Mastercam's WCS /
View Manager.

Post by vinny
I guess you could make copies or instances and place them where you want,
example for tombstoning. But wouldn't it be a better approach to have it
reference the one operation making a smaller assembly or part? Type in an
angle of rotation, or an offset distance and number of copies.

I'll see what HSMWorks position is on this and if we missed anything.
I'll poke around a little first. Not sure if this is a big deal or not
as I've been waiting for the 4th-axis stuff to really start thinking
about this kind of thing.

Post by vinny
Personally, I love the simplistic one menu approach. But lots of people like
dialogue boxes. Especially younger people.

I love how HSMWorks makes extensive use of the SolidWorks Property
Manager. I hate all those annoying dialog that pop up and have to be
moved, closed, and dragged in Mastercam X2. The Mastercam X2 UI is so
bad that you are forced into using 2 monitors!

Post by vinny
One thing I will say about HSMworks is it's linear. You pick a command, say
contour. then just start at the top of the property manager and go down.

You know it! I love this approach!!!

Post by vinny
mastercam has pages...

I think Mastercam's UI really sucks when compared to SolidWorks /
HSMWorks.

Post by vinny
One thing I like better on X is the backround color, making it black on
the bottom and dark blue on the top is the bomb!

Not sure what you mean. SolidWorks has the ability to use gradient
colors for a background. Is that what you mean?


Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
Mastercam x's selection power seems like it takes a little while, kinda
grows on ya. Use it at first and its a pain, but later on your in a racecar.
Lots of little things in mastercam x you cant see till you read about it or
someone tells you.

Don't agree. SolidWorks / HSMWorks selection tools are far superior so
far. Still have much more testing to do.

Uhhhh, not so sure man. Mastercam 9.1 gives solidworks a run for its money
on selection of geometry, cutting path, etc... It seems to give me lots more
freedom.
Mastercam x selection tools are versions 9's on steroids.
But they are hidden kinda. You gotta know what your looking for. In fact
the biggest step forward i seen in x besides HSM is in its selection tools.
I'm shocked what I can do in x after playing with it for a week strait,
all these little selection tools start to add up to one seriously badass
picking system.
I still stand by its chaining methods. Lots of power tools hidden in there
for chaining. It's one area I know I could rebuttle any debate when it comes
to selsction.

Only problem I ever seen is chaining stuff when you cant see the whole
chain due to zoom. There was definetely bugs there. Hopefully they fixed
that in x.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
HSMworks wont tranform or copy operations, or copy them between views or
faces.

I don't have any problems copying and pasting operations in
SolidWorks/ HSMWorks. IMO, it's far superior to Mastercam X2 Machining
Operations Manager.

??
Mastercam has a great copy and paste in the ops manager.? Copy before, move
after etc...?





No hesitation / delays, no red arrow to deal with!

That red arrow rocks. Its the input area. its where you are inserting.
Reminds me of the VI editor cursor.

Post by jon_banquer
All you need to do is create a new Reference Geometry Coordinate
System in SolidWorks and change to the Reference Coordinate System in
the copied operation in HSMWorks. See Tutorial 3 in the HSMWorks HTML
Help: 3+2 Machining. I *greatly prefer* using SolidWorks to create
Reference Geometry Coordinate Systems vs. using Mastercam's WCS /
View Manager.

ok...
so, First I create 4 coordinate systems on my tobstone.
Then I drag or create 4 more copies of my operation.
Then i edit each one to reflect the coordinate system of the operation.

as opposed to mastercam.

I create a transform op. I select rotate, pick the operation, select or
type in the center location, press enter. It can make a copy, a full
independent copy, or even copy the geometry and the toolpath. making editing
just one possible.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
I guess you could make copies or instances and place them where you want,
example for tombstoning. But wouldn't it be a better approach to have it
reference the one operation making a smaller assembly or part? Type in an
angle of rotation, or an offset distance and number of copies.

I'll see what HSMWorks position is on this and if we missed anything.
I'll poke around a little first. Not sure if this is a big deal or not
as I've been waiting for the 4th-axis stuff to really start thinking
about this kind of thing.

Yep, 4 axis usually is something indexed multiple times.
It's got to be an issue with that.
Guess we will wait and see.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
Personally, I love the simplistic one menu approach. But lots of people like
dialogue boxes. Especially younger people.

I love how HSMWorks makes extensive use of the SolidWorks Property
Manager. I hate all those annoying dialog that pop up and have to be
moved, closed, and dragged in Mastercam X2. The Mastercam X2 UI is so
bad that you are forced into using 2 monitors!

Naw, your not forced into two monitors.. You ARE forced into a 19" or larger
monitor though. The two monitors is the bomb, every cam guy should have
three in my book.
Not sure what I'd gain my having two monitors in solidworks. Its not
designed that way.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
One thing I will say about HSMworks is it's linear. You pick a command, say
contour. then just start at the top of the property manager and go down.

You know it! I love this approach!!!

Post by vinny
mastercam has pages...

I think Mastercam's UI really sucks when compared to SolidWorks /
HSMWorks.

Post by vinny
One thing I like better on X is the backround color, making it black on
the bottom and dark blue on the top is the bomb!

Not sure what you mean. SolidWorks has the ability to use gradient
colors for a background. Is that what you mean?

Yep. it reduces glare, expecially on a laptop,



What im looking into next is if HSMworks edits stuff.
example...
can you extend a face just for cutting? Can you overlap passes.
Another thing Id like to see is independent surface or face editing of
parameters.

Here's a good example, quite common in moldmaking.
You have a 3d body, like a soccer ball.
You have one patch thats heavy .0005" because it gets diamond polished.
Im wondering how hard it is to adjust a patch.

One thing I like is all non cutting surfaces are check surfaces. Now the
best thing would be if there were check surface lists. So I can leave
different amounts on them.

[jon_banquer]

Vinny,

I'm going to make an attempt to try to get you to think a little
differently than how you have been thinking and I'm going to try and
do this by asking you questions. I want you to keep this in mind:

The HSMWorks philosophy is to do things the SolidWorks way and not try
to reinvent what doesn't need to be reinvented.

Post by vinny
Only problem I ever seen is chaining stuff when you cant see the whole
chain due to zoom. There was definetely bugs there. Hopefully they fixed
that in x.

What method does SolidWorks provide for a user to pick through
something when what you want to select is hidden behind something
else?

Post by vinny
I create a transform op. I select rotate, pick the operation, select or
type in the center location, press enter. It can make a copy, a full
independent copy, or even copy the geometry and the toolpath. making editing
just one possible.

What is the main method that SolidWorks gives a user when you want to
duplicate something? When you transform a toolpath in Mastercam you
are duplicating your toolpath somewhere else. In SolidWorks you often
duplicate by creating a ..... ?

Post by vinny
Guess we will wait and see.

I saw how it's probably going to work today. I can't discuss the
specifics here. I can do it with you in e-mail but it can't be
discussed with anyone else.

Next set of questions:

Is it an advantage to start at ground zero or is it better to try and
shoe horn in what exists in legacy programs like Gibbs, Mastercam,
Surfcam, DP Esprit, etc. into SolidWorks?

Is an existing CAM company at an advantage or a disadvantage if they
already have a stand alone program and wish to create a program that
runs inside a SolidWorks, Inventor, SolidEdge, IronCAD, or ?

Is it better to have less but better and more powerful cam tools?

Will potential customers go with a new program to run along side
Mastercam, Gibbscam, Surfcam, etc. if the limited set of tools in the
new program is far better and far more powerful than legacy CAM
programs are?

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[J. Carroll]

Post by Joe788
Vinny,
I'm going to make an attempt to try to get you to think a little
differently than how you have been thinking and I'm going to try and
The HSMWorks philosophy is to do things the SolidWorks way and not try
to reinvent what doesn't need to be reinvented.

Post by vinny
Only problem I ever seen is chaining stuff when you cant see the
whole chain due to zoom. There was definetely bugs there. Hopefully
they fixed that in x.

What method does SolidWorks provide for a user to pick through
something when what you want to select is hidden behind something
else?

Post by vinny
I create a transform op. I select rotate, pick the operation,
select or type in the center location, press enter. It can make a
copy, a full independent copy, or even copy the geometry and the
toolpath. making editing just one possible.

What is the main method that SolidWorks gives a user when you want to
duplicate something? When you transform a toolpath in Mastercam you
are duplicating your toolpath somewhere else. In SolidWorks you often
duplicate by creating a ..... ?

Post by vinny
Guess we will wait and see.

I saw how it's probably going to work today. I can't discuss the
specifics here. I can do it with you in e-mail but it can't be
discussed with anyone else.
Is it an advantage to start at ground zero or is it better to try and
shoe horn in what exists in legacy programs like Gibbs, Mastercam,
Surfcam, DP Esprit, etc. into SolidWorks?
Is an existing CAM company at an advantage or a disadvantage if they
already have a stand alone program and wish to create a program that
runs inside a SolidWorks, Inventor, SolidEdge, IronCAD, or ?
Is it better to have less but better and more powerful cam tools?
Will potential customers go with a new program to run along side
Mastercam, Gibbscam, Surfcam, etc. if the limited set of tools in the
new program is far better and far more powerful than legacy CAM
programs are?
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608


"When I lived in Connecticut, I worked for a company where part of my job
was to look at and evaluate different CAD/CAM software. While working for
this company, I was asked what I wanted to have as my title on the business
cards that they decided I needed and were having printed up. I asked for
the title of "Janitor" because it was my job to clean up whatever mess the
owner's son wanted straightened out. "

"it's a hassle in SolidWorks because your forced to be in assembly mode
rather than part mode if you cut a solid in such a way that you would end
up with two solids. Why should I have to be in assembly mode to cut a part
this way ?? What if I want to remove a face on a solid and replace it with
another face ?? In SolidWorks part mode, this would create a "disjoint"
solid and it's not allowed. Also, in SolidWorks, surfaces are treated as
second class citizens. The idea is to only use surfaces to cut a solid.
You can thicken a surface into a solid but you still can't do feature based
operations to this thickened surface. When surfaces are imported into
Solidworks from another program, you can't turn on their U, V points and
manipulate them unless you by a third party SolidWorks product like
GeometryWorks."

Post by Joe788
I plan to move up to the CAM dept or die design one day.

Banqueer Responds:

"This is what the company, that I mentioned earlier, wanted me to do.
Perhaps if it had been progressive die design, I might have been
slightly more interested. I like making stuff. Better yet is figuring
out how to make it and fixture it in the shortest time possible. We
cheat a lot where I work now, and I'm finding this to be a valuable
help in how I look at things."

"Have almost zero CNC lathe experience and would like to fill this
void in my machining background."

"jon"

Jon, you aren't much more than a poesure and fraud.
Your own past statements bely your current representations.

[jon_banquer]

Still not interested in working for a hate filled drunken bum like
you. ;>)

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[J. Carroll]

Post by jon_banquer
Still not interested in working for a hate filled drunken bum like
you. ;>)
http://youtu.be/QBJB-nunxgE

Thank God.

[vinny]

Post by Joe788
Vinny,
I'm going to make an attempt to try to get you to think a little
differently than how you have been thinking and I'm going to try and
The HSMWorks philosophy is to do things the SolidWorks way and not try
to reinvent what doesn't need to be reinvented.

Post by vinny
Only problem I ever seen is chaining stuff when you cant see the whole
chain due to zoom. There was definetely bugs there. Hopefully they fixed
that in x.

What method does SolidWorks provide for a user to pick through
something when what you want to select is hidden behind something
else?

Post by vinny
I create a transform op. I select rotate, pick the operation, select or
type in the center location, press enter. It can make a copy, a full
independent copy, or even copy the geometry and the toolpath. making editing
just one possible.

What is the main method that SolidWorks gives a user when you want to
duplicate something? When you transform a toolpath in Mastercam you
are duplicating your toolpath somewhere else. In SolidWorks you often
duplicate by creating a ..... ?

Post by vinny
Guess we will wait and see.

I saw how it's probably going to work today. I can't discuss the
specifics here. I can do it with you in e-mail but it can't be
discussed with anyone else.
Is it an advantage to start at ground zero or is it better to try and
shoe horn in what exists in legacy programs like Gibbs, Mastercam,
Surfcam, DP Esprit, etc. into SolidWorks?
Is an existing CAM company at an advantage or a disadvantage if they
already have a stand alone program and wish to create a program that
runs inside a SolidWorks, Inventor, SolidEdge, IronCAD, or ?
Is it better to have less but better and more powerful cam tools?
Will potential customers go with a new program to run along side
Mastercam, Gibbscam, Surfcam, etc. if the limited set of tools in the
new program is far better and far more powerful than legacy CAM
programs are?
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

Well, Like I said before we always try to run new stuff like the stuff we
know. I am aware I'm doing it, and my mind is open.
Gonna run thru a few tutorials, maybe I will start thinking like the
software is designed for instead of thinking like im running mastercam.

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny
Well, Like I said before we always try to run new stuff like the stuff we
know. I am aware I'm doing it, and my mind is open.
Gonna run thru a few tutorials, maybe I will start thinking like the
software is designed for instead of thinking like im running mastercam.

It's only natural that you would do this. To undestand why there will
be no "Transform" toolpath function in HSMWorks look up Patterns in
the Solidworks help file. If you're not familiar with them get to know
both Linear and Circular Patterns.

To understand why SolidWorks / HSMWorks is far better at selecting
geometry to machine lookup Select / Other in the SolidWorks On-Line
Help.

Make use of SolidMentor.

www.solidmentor.com

The owner of SolidMentor wants a website free of trolls where you can
ask whatever it is you feel you need to ask without fear of being
judged for what you do or don't know by some asshole.

I have some very extensive SolidWorks tutorials with sample files that
I can give you. Same goes for Steve.

If you get stuck you can ask me whatever you wish here, by e-mail me
or on SolidMentor.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#comment-87836608

[Joe788]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
Well, Like I said before we always try to run new stuff like the stuff we
know. I am aware I'm doing it, and my mind is open.
Gonna run thru a few tutorials, maybe I will start thinking like the
software is designed for instead of thinking like im running mastercam.

It's only natural that you would do this. To undestand why there will
be no "Transform" toolpath function in HSMWorks look up Patterns in
the Solidworks help file. If you're not familiar with them get to know
both Linear and Circular Patterns.
To understand why SolidWorks / HSMWorks is far better at selecting
geometry to machine lookup Select / Other in the SolidWorks On-Line
Help.
Make use of SolidMentor.
www.solidmentor.com
The owner of SolidMentor wants a website free of trolls where you can
ask whatever it is you feel you need to ask without fear of being
judged for what you do or don't know by some asshole.
I have some very extensive SolidWorks tutorials with sample files that
I can give you. Same goes for Steve.
If you get stuck you can ask me whatever you wish here, by e-mail me
or on SolidMentor.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CAhttp://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#c...

Jon, can you explain the SPECIFIC differences in the geometry
selection of the two programs? What EXACTLY were you having a problem
with in Mastercam, and how is it done better in HSMWorks?

[vinny]

Post by vinny

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
Mastercam x's selection power seems like it takes a little while, kinda
grows on ya. Use it at first and its a pain, but later on your in a racecar.
Lots of little things in mastercam x you cant see till you read about it or
someone tells you.

Don't agree. SolidWorks / HSMWorks selection tools are far superior so
far. Still have much more testing to do.

Uhhhh, not so sure man. Mastercam 9.1 gives solidworks a run for its money
on selection of geometry, cutting path, etc... It seems to give me lots
more freedom.
Mastercam x selection tools are versions 9's on steroids.
But they are hidden kinda. You gotta know what your looking for. In fact
the biggest step forward i seen in x besides HSM is in its selection tools.
I'm shocked what I can do in x after playing with it for a week strait,
all these little selection tools start to add up to one seriously badass
picking system.
I still stand by its chaining methods. Lots of power tools hidden in there
for chaining. It's one area I know I could rebuttle any debate when it
comes to selsction.
Only problem I ever seen is chaining stuff when you cant see the whole
chain due to zoom. There was definetely bugs there. Hopefully they fixed
that in x.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
HSMworks wont tranform or copy operations, or copy them between views or
faces.

I don't have any problems copying and pasting operations in
SolidWorks/ HSMWorks. IMO, it's far superior to Mastercam X2 Machining
Operations Manager.

??
Mastercam has a great copy and paste in the ops manager.? Copy before,
move after etc...?
No hesitation / delays, no red arrow to deal with!
That red arrow rocks. Its the input area. its where you are inserting.
Reminds me of the VI editor cursor.

Post by jon_banquer
All you need to do is create a new Reference Geometry Coordinate
System in SolidWorks and change to the Reference Coordinate System in
the copied operation in HSMWorks. See Tutorial 3 in the HSMWorks HTML
Help: 3+2 Machining. I *greatly prefer* using SolidWorks to create
Reference Geometry Coordinate Systems vs. using Mastercam's WCS /
View Manager.

ok...
so, First I create 4 coordinate systems on my tobstone.
Then I drag or create 4 more copies of my operation.
Then i edit each one to reflect the coordinate system of the operation.
as opposed to mastercam.
I create a transform op. I select rotate, pick the operation, select or
type in the center location, press enter. It can make a copy, a full
independent copy, or even copy the geometry and the toolpath. making
editing just one possible.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
I guess you could make copies or instances and place them where you want,
example for tombstoning. But wouldn't it be a better approach to have it
reference the one operation making a smaller assembly or part? Type in an
angle of rotation, or an offset distance and number of copies.

I'll see what HSMWorks position is on this and if we missed anything.
I'll poke around a little first. Not sure if this is a big deal or not
as I've been waiting for the 4th-axis stuff to really start thinking
about this kind of thing.

Yep, 4 axis usually is something indexed multiple times.
It's got to be an issue with that.
Guess we will wait and see.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
Personally, I love the simplistic one menu approach. But lots of people like
dialogue boxes. Especially younger people.

I love how HSMWorks makes extensive use of the SolidWorks Property
Manager. I hate all those annoying dialog that pop up and have to be
moved, closed, and dragged in Mastercam X2. The Mastercam X2 UI is so
bad that you are forced into using 2 monitors!

Naw, your not forced into two monitors.. You ARE forced into a 19" or
larger monitor though. The two monitors is the bomb, every cam guy should
have three in my book.
Not sure what I'd gain my having two monitors in solidworks. Its not
designed that way.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
One thing I will say about HSMworks is it's linear. You pick a command, say
contour. then just start at the top of the property manager and go down.

You know it! I love this approach!!!

Post by vinny
mastercam has pages...

I think Mastercam's UI really sucks when compared to SolidWorks /
HSMWorks.

Post by vinny
One thing I like better on X is the backround color, making it black on
the bottom and dark blue on the top is the bomb!

Not sure what you mean. SolidWorks has the ability to use gradient
colors for a background. Is that what you mean?

Yep. it reduces glare, expecially on a laptop,
What im looking into next is if HSMworks edits stuff.
example...
can you extend a face just for cutting? Can you overlap passes.
Another thing Id like to see is independent surface or face editing of
parameters.
Here's a good example, quite common in moldmaking.
You have a 3d body, like a soccer ball.
You have one patch thats heavy .0005" because it gets diamond polished.
Im wondering how hard it is to adjust a patch.
One thing I like is all non cutting surfaces are check surfaces. Now the
best thing would be if there were check surface lists. So I can leave
different amounts on them.

Gotta bring this up, On x2, no mr...you cant use check surfaces with the
high speed milling.
That kinda sucks. I use check surfs to cheat by leaving stock on them, as
well as use them to stop the cutter from going where I dont want it to.
I can use cut depths to control how deep it cuts, but thats not always
enough.
HSMworks on the other hand makes every surface not picked a check surface.
But I can't see an ability to leave stock on a check surf, or leave minus
stock.
Back to cheating I know, I cant help it, cheating is how you win in this
world.

[gk]

According to the local Mastercam guru & VAR there are two switches that
can be set that will allow check surfaces with high speed milling. I
don't know offhand where they're located, but if you wish, I will find out.

Gary

Post by vinny

Post by vinny

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
Mastercam x's selection power seems like it takes a little while, kinda
grows on ya. Use it at first and its a pain, but later on your in a racecar.
Lots of little things in mastercam x you cant see till you read about it or
someone tells you.

Don't agree. SolidWorks / HSMWorks selection tools are far superior so
far. Still have much more testing to do.

Uhhhh, not so sure man. Mastercam 9.1 gives solidworks a run for its money
on selection of geometry, cutting path, etc... It seems to give me lots
more freedom.
Mastercam x selection tools are versions 9's on steroids.
But they are hidden kinda. You gotta know what your looking for. In fact
the biggest step forward i seen in x besides HSM is in its selection tools.
I'm shocked what I can do in x after playing with it for a week strait,
all these little selection tools start to add up to one seriously badass
picking system.
I still stand by its chaining methods. Lots of power tools hidden in there
for chaining. It's one area I know I could rebuttle any debate when it
comes to selsction.
Only problem I ever seen is chaining stuff when you cant see the whole
chain due to zoom. There was definetely bugs there. Hopefully they fixed
that in x.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
HSMworks wont tranform or copy operations, or copy them between views or
faces.

I don't have any problems copying and pasting operations in
SolidWorks/ HSMWorks. IMO, it's far superior to Mastercam X2 Machining
Operations Manager.

??
Mastercam has a great copy and paste in the ops manager.? Copy before,
move after etc...?
No hesitation / delays, no red arrow to deal with!
That red arrow rocks. Its the input area. its where you are inserting.
Reminds me of the VI editor cursor.

Post by jon_banquer
All you need to do is create a new Reference Geometry Coordinate
System in SolidWorks and change to the Reference Coordinate System in
the copied operation in HSMWorks. See Tutorial 3 in the HSMWorks HTML
Help: 3+2 Machining. I *greatly prefer* using SolidWorks to create
Reference Geometry Coordinate Systems vs. using Mastercam's WCS /
View Manager.

ok...
so, First I create 4 coordinate systems on my tobstone.
Then I drag or create 4 more copies of my operation.
Then i edit each one to reflect the coordinate system of the operation.
as opposed to mastercam.
I create a transform op. I select rotate, pick the operation, select or
type in the center location, press enter. It can make a copy, a full
independent copy, or even copy the geometry and the toolpath. making
editing just one possible.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
I guess you could make copies or instances and place them where you want,
example for tombstoning. But wouldn't it be a better approach to have it
reference the one operation making a smaller assembly or part? Type in an
angle of rotation, or an offset distance and number of copies.

I'll see what HSMWorks position is on this and if we missed anything.
I'll poke around a little first. Not sure if this is a big deal or not
as I've been waiting for the 4th-axis stuff to really start thinking
about this kind of thing.

Yep, 4 axis usually is something indexed multiple times.
It's got to be an issue with that.
Guess we will wait and see.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
Personally, I love the simplistic one menu approach. But lots of people like
dialogue boxes. Especially younger people.

I love how HSMWorks makes extensive use of the SolidWorks Property
Manager. I hate all those annoying dialog that pop up and have to be
moved, closed, and dragged in Mastercam X2. The Mastercam X2 UI is so
bad that you are forced into using 2 monitors!

Naw, your not forced into two monitors.. You ARE forced into a 19" or
larger monitor though. The two monitors is the bomb, every cam guy should
have three in my book.
Not sure what I'd gain my having two monitors in solidworks. Its not
designed that way.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
One thing I will say about HSMworks is it's linear. You pick a command, say
contour. then just start at the top of the property manager and go down.

You know it! I love this approach!!!

Post by vinny
mastercam has pages...

I think Mastercam's UI really sucks when compared to SolidWorks /
HSMWorks.

Post by vinny
One thing I like better on X is the backround color, making it black on
the bottom and dark blue on the top is the bomb!

Not sure what you mean. SolidWorks has the ability to use gradient
colors for a background. Is that what you mean?

Yep. it reduces glare, expecially on a laptop,
What im looking into next is if HSMworks edits stuff.
example...
can you extend a face just for cutting? Can you overlap passes.
Another thing Id like to see is independent surface or face editing of
parameters.
Here's a good example, quite common in moldmaking.
You have a 3d body, like a soccer ball.
You have one patch thats heavy .0005" because it gets diamond polished.
Im wondering how hard it is to adjust a patch.
One thing I like is all non cutting surfaces are check surfaces. Now the
best thing would be if there were check surface lists. So I can leave
different amounts on them.

Gotta bring this up, On x2, no mr...you cant use check surfaces with the
high speed milling.
That kinda sucks. I use check surfs to cheat by leaving stock on them, as
well as use them to stop the cutter from going where I dont want it to.
I can use cut depths to control how deep it cuts, but thats not always
enough.
HSMworks on the other hand makes every surface not picked a check surface.
But I can't see an ability to leave stock on a check surf, or leave minus
stock.
Back to cheating I know, I cant help it, cheating is how you win in this
world.

[vinny]

Post by gk
According to the local Mastercam guru & VAR there are two switches that
can be set that will allow check surfaces with high speed milling. I
don't know offhand where they're located, but if you wish, I will find out.
Gary

Unfortunitely I dont have x at work, just 9.
The x2 i have is on my laptop. Just something to play with. So I'm not
actually in need of it at the moment. I'm just using it to compare to
hsmworks because mastercam owns the cam market.
But if you do get a chance go ahead and find out, the reason is that the
help files said there's no check surfs with X HSM and I think it's important
to have.
Almost a must have. And since HSMworks does... it's not fair to post
mastercam doesnt if it actually does.
Thanks.

Post by gk

Post by vinny

Post by vinny

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
Mastercam x's selection power seems like it takes a little while, kinda
grows on ya. Use it at first and its a pain, but later on your in a racecar.
Lots of little things in mastercam x you cant see till you read about it or
someone tells you.

Don't agree. SolidWorks / HSMWorks selection tools are far superior so
far. Still have much more testing to do.

Uhhhh, not so sure man. Mastercam 9.1 gives solidworks a run for its
money on selection of geometry, cutting path, etc... It seems to give me
lots more freedom.
Mastercam x selection tools are versions 9's on steroids.
But they are hidden kinda. You gotta know what your looking for. In fact
the biggest step forward i seen in x besides HSM is in its selection tools.
I'm shocked what I can do in x after playing with it for a week strait,
all these little selection tools start to add up to one seriously badass
picking system.
I still stand by its chaining methods. Lots of power tools hidden in
there for chaining. It's one area I know I could rebuttle any debate when
it comes to selsction.
Only problem I ever seen is chaining stuff when you cant see the whole
chain due to zoom. There was definetely bugs there. Hopefully they fixed
that in x.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
HSMworks wont tranform or copy operations, or copy them between views or
faces.

I don't have any problems copying and pasting operations in
SolidWorks/ HSMWorks. IMO, it's far superior to Mastercam X2 Machining
Operations Manager.

??
Mastercam has a great copy and paste in the ops manager.? Copy before,
move after etc...?
No hesitation / delays, no red arrow to deal with!
That red arrow rocks. Its the input area. its where you are inserting.
Reminds me of the VI editor cursor.

Post by jon_banquer
All you need to do is create a new Reference Geometry Coordinate
System in SolidWorks and change to the Reference Coordinate System in
the copied operation in HSMWorks. See Tutorial 3 in the HSMWorks HTML
Help: 3+2 Machining. I *greatly prefer* using SolidWorks to create
Reference Geometry Coordinate Systems vs. using Mastercam's WCS /
View Manager.

ok...
so, First I create 4 coordinate systems on my tobstone.
Then I drag or create 4 more copies of my operation.
Then i edit each one to reflect the coordinate system of the operation.
as opposed to mastercam.
I create a transform op. I select rotate, pick the operation, select or
type in the center location, press enter. It can make a copy, a full
independent copy, or even copy the geometry and the toolpath. making
editing just one possible.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
I guess you could make copies or instances and place them where you want,
example for tombstoning. But wouldn't it be a better approach to have it
reference the one operation making a smaller assembly or part? Type in an
angle of rotation, or an offset distance and number of copies.

I'll see what HSMWorks position is on this and if we missed anything.
I'll poke around a little first. Not sure if this is a big deal or not
as I've been waiting for the 4th-axis stuff to really start thinking
about this kind of thing.

Yep, 4 axis usually is something indexed multiple times.
It's got to be an issue with that.
Guess we will wait and see.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
Personally, I love the simplistic one menu approach. But lots of people like
dialogue boxes. Especially younger people.

I love how HSMWorks makes extensive use of the SolidWorks Property
Manager. I hate all those annoying dialog that pop up and have to be
moved, closed, and dragged in Mastercam X2. The Mastercam X2 UI is so
bad that you are forced into using 2 monitors!

Naw, your not forced into two monitors.. You ARE forced into a 19" or
larger monitor though. The two monitors is the bomb, every cam guy should
have three in my book.
Not sure what I'd gain my having two monitors in solidworks. Its not
designed that way.

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
One thing I will say about HSMworks is it's linear. You pick a command, say
contour. then just start at the top of the property manager and go down.

You know it! I love this approach!!!

Post by vinny
mastercam has pages...

I think Mastercam's UI really sucks when compared to SolidWorks /
HSMWorks.

Post by vinny
One thing I like better on X is the backround color, making it black on
the bottom and dark blue on the top is the bomb!

Not sure what you mean. SolidWorks has the ability to use gradient
colors for a background. Is that what you mean?

Yep. it reduces glare, expecially on a laptop,
What im looking into next is if HSMworks edits stuff.
example...
can you extend a face just for cutting? Can you overlap passes.
Another thing Id like to see is independent surface or face editing of
parameters.
Here's a good example, quite common in moldmaking.
You have a 3d body, like a soccer ball.
You have one patch thats heavy .0005" because it gets diamond polished.
Im wondering how hard it is to adjust a patch.
One thing I like is all non cutting surfaces are check surfaces. Now the
best thing would be if there were check surface lists. So I can leave
different amounts on them.

Gotta bring this up, On x2, no mr...you cant use check surfaces with the
high speed milling.
That kinda sucks. I use check surfs to cheat by leaving stock on them,
as well as use them to stop the cutter from going where I dont want it
to.
I can use cut depths to control how deep it cuts, but thats not always
enough.
HSMworks on the other hand makes every surface not picked a check surface.
But I can't see an ability to leave stock on a check surf, or leave
minus stock.
Back to cheating I know, I cant help it, cheating is how you win in this
world.

[jon_banquer]

Posted today to the e-mastercam forum:

"We just purchased Cimco-hsm for mastercam. I would put the Cimco
adaptive roughing against Truemill any day. The first production job
we have used it on we saved 50% roughing time. $4000/yr svaings plus
extended tool life. The part is 416T SS 28Rc, we now rough at 125
IPM, .75deep cuts, .015-stepover.

There is a free trial download from Cimco. You will be impressed. We
have one floating license on the network to share among three
programmers. Well worth the money."

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/ptc-acquires-co.html#comment-88443502

[vinny]

Post by jon_banquer
"We just purchased Cimco-hsm for mastercam. I would put the Cimco
adaptive roughing against Truemill any day. The first production job
we have used it on we saved 50% roughing time. $4000/yr svaings plus
extended tool life. The part is 416T SS 28Rc, we now rough at 125
IPM, .75deep cuts, .015-stepover.
There is a free trial download from Cimco. You will be impressed. We
have one floating license on the network to share among three
programmers. Well worth the money."
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/ptc-acquires-co.html#comment-88443502

we cant get a hold of them. Even our mastercam guy can't. I emailed them
personally 3 times. They have a version for 9 we wanted to get.
I just went to their site, I can't see any free trial. Is it the demo?

[jon_banquer]

Post by vinny

Post by jon_banquer
"We just purchased Cimco-hsm for mastercam. I would put the Cimco
adaptive roughing against Truemill any day. The first production job
we have used it on we saved 50% roughing time. $4000/yr svaings plus
extended tool life. The part is 416T SS 28Rc, we now rough at 125
IPM, .75deep cuts, .015-stepover.
There is a free trial download from Cimco. You will be impressed. We
have one floating license on the network to share among three
programmers. Well worth the money."
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/ptc-acquires-co.html#c...

we cant get a hold of them. Even our mastercam guy can't. I emailed them
personally 3 times. They have a version for 9 we wanted to get.
I just went to their site, I can't see any free trial. Is it the demo?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Call the North Carolina office. Ask for Anthony. Tell him I sent you.

1 704 644 3587

If you have a problem let me know. I have his cell phone number.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/ptc-acquires-co.html#comment-88443502

[Joe788]

Post by vinny

Post by jon_banquer
"We just purchased Cimco-hsm for mastercam. I would put the Cimco
adaptive roughing against Truemill any day. The first production job
we have used it on we saved 50% roughing time. $4000/yr svaings plus
extended tool life. The part is 416T SS 28Rc, we now rough at 125
IPM, .75deep cuts, .015-stepover.
There is a free trial download from Cimco. You will be impressed. We
have one floating license on the network to share among three
programmers. Well worth the money."
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/ptc-acquires-co.html#c...

we cant get a hold of them. Even our mastercam guy can't. I emailed them
personally 3 times. They have a version for 9 we wanted to get.
I just went to their site, I can't see any free trial. Is it the demo?

I wanted to download it and try it out a few months ago. I never heard
back from anybody.

[vinny]

Post by Joe788

Post by vinny

Post by jon_banquer
"We just purchased Cimco-hsm for mastercam. I would put the Cimco
adaptive roughing against Truemill any day. The first production job
we have used it on we saved 50% roughing time. $4000/yr svaings plus
extended tool life. The part is 416T SS 28Rc, we now rough at 125
IPM, .75deep cuts, .015-stepover.
There is a free trial download from Cimco. You will be impressed. We
have one floating license on the network to share among three
programmers. Well worth the money."
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/ptc-acquires-co.html#c...

we cant get a hold of them. Even our mastercam guy can't. I emailed them
personally 3 times. They have a version for 9 we wanted to get.
I just went to their site, I can't see any free trial. Is it the demo?

I wanted to download it and try it out a few months ago. I never heard
back from anybody.

because///shhhh...its a secret...they are busy...making..HSMworks.

[Joe788]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
Mastercam x's selection power seems like it takes a little while, kinda
grows on ya. Use it at first and its a pain, but later on your in a racecar.
Lots of little things in mastercam x you cant see till you read about it or
someone tells you.

Don't agree. SolidWorks / HSMWorks selection tools are far superior so
far. Still have much more testing to do.

Please elaborate. Just saying the tools are "far superior" doesn't
really explain anything. What SPECIFICALLY makes them better than
SPECIFIC functions in Mastercam?

Post by jon_banquer

Post by vinny
HSMworks wont tranform or copy operations, or copy them between views or
faces.

I don't have any problems copying and pasting operations in
SolidWorks/ HSMWorks. IMO, it's far superior to Mastercam X2 Machining
Operations Manager. No hesitation / delays, no red arrow to deal with!
All you need to do is create a new Reference Geometry Coordinate
System in SolidWorks and change to the Reference Coordinate System in
the copied operation in HSMWorks. See Tutorial 3 in the HSMWorks HTML
Help: 3+2 Machining. I *greatly prefer* using SolidWorks to create
Reference Geometry Coordinate Systems vs. using Mastercam's WCS /
View Manager.

'snip'

Post by jon_banquer
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CAhttp://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/how-goes-free-s.html#c...

The red arrow is necessary. What would YOU prefer instead? And why?

And WHY do you "greatly prefer" Solidworks' Reference Coordinate
System instead of Mastercam's WCS? What are the differences you've
found that make you "greatly prefer" one over the other?