Removing roll marked material data from aluminum bar stock

[Jon Anderson]

Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they
bought from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is
roll marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser
material is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.

Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?

Jon

[Tove Momerathsson]

Post by Jon Anderson
Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they
bought from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is
roll marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser
material is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

Ok, just to be sure we're talking about the same stuff, my Kaiser 6061
flat bar is printed with something blackish that might have a trace of
red in it. (Or maybe that was the light.)

It didn't come off with Contractor's Solvent, turpentine or lighter fluid.

It *did* come off with GoJo orange hand cleaner with pumice, but I'm not
sure whether it was the orange goop that took it off or the pumice. And
I'm out of the hand cleaner without pumice, so I can't check.

HTH,
Tove

[Jon Anderson]

Post by Tove Momerathsson
It *did* come off with GoJo orange hand cleaner with pumice, but I'm not
sure whether it was the orange goop that took it off or the pumice. And
I'm out of the hand cleaner without pumice, so I can't check.

Well I'll be damned. Thanks! I'd never have thought of that. Using the
NAPA variant, but it works with a lot less effort than scotchbrite pads.


Jon

[clay]

Post by Jon Anderson

Post by Tove Momerathsson
It *did* come off with GoJo orange hand cleaner with pumice, but I'm not
sure whether it was the orange goop that took it off or the pumice. And
I'm out of the hand cleaner without pumice, so I can't check.

Well I'll be damned. Thanks! I'd never have thought of that. Using the
NAPA variant, but it works with a lot less effort than scotchbrite pads.
Jon

So it is organic, or water based, rather than hydrocarbon.

ca

[Jon Anderson]

Post by clay
So it is organic, or water based, rather than hydrocarbon.

Well, I have the pumice version too. So not sure if it's some citrus
based component or the pumice. But it does work.

I called Kaiser, got the number of someone that should be able to answer
definitively, but got the answering machine. Be interesting to see if he
calls me back tomorrow or Monday...

Jon

[Cliff]

Post by clay
So it is organic, or water based, rather than hydrocarbon.

Organics are hydrocarbons.

[RB]

Post by Tove Momerathsson

Post by Jon Anderson
Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they
bought from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is
roll marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser
material is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

Ok, just to be sure we're talking about the same stuff, my Kaiser 6061
flat bar is printed with something blackish that might have a trace of
red in it. (Or maybe that was the light.)
It didn't come off with Contractor's Solvent, turpentine or lighter fluid.
It *did* come off with GoJo orange hand cleaner with pumice, but I'm not
sure whether it was the orange goop that took it off or the pumice. And
I'm out of the hand cleaner without pumice, so I can't check.
HTH,
Tove

Hah! A few weeks ago I used that stuff just to clean grungy Al bars I
had laying around.

That stuff is good for a lot of things.
I use it to remove grease spots from those times I would not take time
to change from my office clothes before running the lathe. Just rub it
into the spots right before running the clothes washer.

And believe it or not, it works pretty darned well as a mosquito repellent.

[Jon Anderson]

Maybe the mystery ink is water-soluble?
I didn't see water in the solvent list.

Don't think so, I also tried Windex and good old fashioned spit...


Jon

[s***@yahoo.com]

Post by Tove Momerathsson

Post by Jon Anderson
Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they
bought from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is
roll marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser
material is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

Ok, just to be sure we're talking about the same stuff, my Kaiser 6061
flat bar is printed with something blackish that might have a trace of
red in it.  (Or maybe that was the light.)
It didn't come off with Contractor's Solvent, turpentine or lighter fluid.
It *did* come off with GoJo orange hand cleaner with pumice, but I'm not
sure whether it was the orange goop that took it off or the pumice.  And
I'm out of the hand cleaner without pumice, so I can't check.
HTH,
Tove

Hah! A few weeks ago I used that stuff just to clean grungy Al bars I
had laying around.


Maybe the mystery ink is water-soluble?
I didn't see water in the solvent list.

Dave

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Maybe the mystery ink is water-soluble?
I didn't see water in the solvent list.

Don't know about water, but an end-mill removes it just perfectly.

(why would you want parts with all those extrusion marks on them,
anyway?)

LLoyd

[Charlie Gary]

Post by Tove Momerathsson

Post by Jon Anderson
Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they
bought from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is
roll marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser
material is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

Ok, just to be sure we're talking about the same stuff, my Kaiser 6061
flat bar is printed with something blackish that might have a trace of
red in it. (Or maybe that was the light.)
It didn't come off with Contractor's Solvent, turpentine or lighter fluid.
It *did* come off with GoJo orange hand cleaner with pumice, but I'm not
sure whether it was the orange goop that took it off or the pumice. And
I'm out of the hand cleaner without pumice, so I can't check.
HTH,
Tove

Hah! A few weeks ago I used that stuff just to clean grungy Al bars I
had laying around.
Maybe the mystery ink is water-soluble?
I didn't see water in the solvent list.
Dave

I kind of doubt material shipped and stored outdoors would be marked
with water-soluble ink.

[Cliff]

Post by Tove Momerathsson
It *did* come off with GoJo orange hand cleaner with pumice, but I'm not
sure whether it was the orange goop that took it off or the pumice. And
I'm out of the hand cleaner without pumice, so I can't check.

Just let a blob of it sit on it for a bit & rinse it off.
If it's unchanged it was the abrasive pumice.

[Jon Anderson]

Could be laser marked.

No, it's printed.

Scotchbrite should do it. Can get it in belts for a belt sander, which is
pretty fast, and gives a nice finish.

Too much work. Customer is all about low cost on this, and it's one of
those perception issues, if I make them look too nice, they're likely to
complain about the price....

I'm curious about what the hell this is printed with, in 25 years I've
never seen material markings on aluminum that didn't come right off with
acetone.

Jon

[pyotr filipivich]

I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that Jon Anderson

Post by Jon Anderson

Could be laser marked.

No, it's printed.

Scotchbrite should do it. Can get it in belts for a belt sander, which is
pretty fast, and gives a nice finish.

Too much work. Customer is all about low cost on this, and it's one of
those perception issues, if I make them look too nice, they're likely to
complain about the price....
I'm curious about what the hell this is printed with, in 25 years I've
never seen material markings on aluminum that didn't come right off with
acetone.

Pardon my obtuseness, but why remove the markings? Either it comes
off as part of the prep before painting, or it gets mechanically
removed in the manufacturing process. Or you're working to hard. Or
there is some other reasons I'm unaware of, (which is obvious, or I
wouldn't be asking.).

Post by Jon Anderson
Jon

--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

[Jon Anderson]

Post by pyotr filipivich
Pardon my obtuseness, but why remove the markings? Either it comes
off as part of the prep before painting, or it gets mechanically
removed in the manufacturing process. Or you're working to hard. Or
there is some other reasons I'm unaware of, (which is obvious, or I
wouldn't be asking.).

The bar stock is part of a simple mounting bracket for a medical device
used in blood collection. It does not get machined all over, nor
painted, nor anodized. Saw to length, round 4 corners, drill 2 holes,
deburr. If I had a good vibratory deburr setup, that would take care of
the deburring and printed marking in one step.

There are thousands of these devices in use with the original mounting.
A very few customers have unique needs, thus this special bracket.
The co-founder and designer of the device, who sadly passed away last
week, had a real talent for not getting carried away in design, always
coming up with a simple and inexpensive way to get the job done, but
getting the job done right.


Jon

[Jim Stewart]

Post by Jon Anderson
Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they
bought from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is
roll marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser
material is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.

When those things fail, I reach for the MEK.

[Proctologically Violated©®]

Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they bought
from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is roll
marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser material
is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?

Could be laser marked.

Scotchbrite should do it. Can get it in belts for a belt sander, which is
pretty fast, and gives a nice finish.
--
Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav Congressman) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
Hey, Big Boy, is that a wad (of cash) in yer pocket, or are you just
glad to see me??

Jon

[Jon Anderson]

I just gotta ask -- why remove the marking? Customer supplied it
marked, then customer can remove the mark or pay extra for you to
do it. Perhaps the customer would prefer to keep the mark to
prove they used 6061.

This was my #1 customer for several years, their work basically paid for
my CNC lathe. I'd also become friends with one of the owners and his
family. It's a small run of parts that I might make once every 18
months, so not a big deal.

A PITA customer, I might say tough, but not these folks.


Jon

[Bill Marrs]

Not sure about your aluminum, but if you want to remove magic marker, the
paint they
mark steel with, carpenters crayon etc., use welding anti-spatter.

You have to read the label and get the right stuff, but some
anti-spatter/nozzle spray is
aerosol methylene chloride. Works great on a lot of stuff that acetone and
MEK won't
touch.

[Chris Jones]

Post by Jon Anderson
Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they
bought from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is
roll marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser
material is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

biodiesel dissolves most things that aren't metal, given time. Don't know
about your printing though.

Chris

[F. George McDuffee]

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 11:55:10 -0800, Jon Anderson

Post by Jon Anderson
Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they
bought from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is
roll marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser
material is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

------------
I just gotta ask -- why remove the marking? Customer supplied it
marked, then customer can remove the mark or pay extra for you to
do it. Perhaps the customer would prefer to keep the mark to
prove they used 6061.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

[Bipolar Bear]

Post by Jon Anderson
Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they
bought from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is
roll marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser
material is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?

https://buyat.ppg.com/refinishProductCatalog/ViewProduct.aspx?ProductID=76f0
34e7-ff1a-453f-a5ce-55df6c0a9237

--

[Rarius]

All the solvents you seem to have tried are covalent-organic compounds.
Perhaps it will respond to an ionic solvent... like water! Its called the
universal solvent for a reason!

Rarius

Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they bought
from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is roll
marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser material
is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

[K Ludger]

Post by Rarius

Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they bought
from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is roll
marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser material
is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

All the solvents you seem to have tried are covalent-organic compounds.
Perhaps it will respond to an ionic solvent... like water! Its called the
universal solvent for a reason!
Rarius

Just out of interest - what are the main groups of solvents and their useful
properties.

Polar - water


Non polar ? Acetone, naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid???


Others as per Barts "Hot melt glue removal (tip of the day)"

[Pete Keillor]

Post by K Ludger

Post by Rarius

Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they bought
from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is roll
marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser material
is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

All the solvents you seem to have tried are covalent-organic compounds.
Perhaps it will respond to an ionic solvent... like water! Its called the
universal solvent for a reason!
Rarius

Just out of interest - what are the main groups of solvents and their useful
properties.
Polar - water
Non polar ? Acetone, naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid???
Others as per Barts "Hot melt glue removal (tip of the day)"

There's a range. Acetone is also polar, no hydrogen bonding (hydrogen
only on carbon), alchohol is slightly less polar, has OH- groups, will
hydrogen bond. WD-40 is aliphatic (no double bonds) straight chain
hydrocarbon which is non-polar, B-12 has aromatic (double bonds and
cyclic) iirc, including toluene, etc. Brake fluid is probably polar,
maybe a glycol with lots of OH- groups since it should be miscible
with water.

They all have different uses as solvents depending upon what you're
trying to dissolve, as you're most likely aware.

Pete Keillor

[Proctologically Violated©®]

Post by Pete Keillor

Post by K Ludger

Post by Rarius

Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they bought
from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is roll
marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser material
is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

All the solvents you seem to have tried are covalent-organic compounds.
Perhaps it will respond to an ionic solvent... like water! Its called the
universal solvent for a reason!
Rarius

Just out of interest - what are the main groups of solvents and their useful
properties.
Polar - water
Non polar ? Acetone, naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid???
Others as per Barts "Hot melt glue removal (tip of the day)"

There's a range. Acetone is also polar, no hydrogen bonding (hydrogen
only on carbon), alchohol is slightly less polar, has OH- groups, will
hydrogen bond. WD-40 is aliphatic (no double bonds) straight chain
hydrocarbon which is non-polar, B-12 has aromatic (double bonds and
cyclic) iirc, including toluene, etc. Brake fluid is probably polar,
maybe a glycol with lots of OH- groups since it should be miscible
with water.
They all have different uses as solvents depending upon what you're
trying to dissolve, as you're most likely aware.

What is B-12?

I thought WD40 was jut kerosene, at about 50x the price.
--
Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav Congressman) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
Hey, Big Boy, is that a wad (of cash) in yer pocket, or are you just
glad to see me??

Post by Pete Keillor
Pete Keillor

[Proctologically Violated©®]

Post by Rarius
All the solvents you seem to have tried are covalent-organic compounds.
Perhaps it will respond to an ionic solvent... like water! Its called the
universal solvent for a reason!

And what reason would that be??
Even you just characterized water as an ionic solvent.

DMSO (dimethylsulfoxide) is considered to be the "universal solvent" from a
pure chemical pov, and even that is just a hyperbole that chemists indulge
in, acknowledging that it does dissolve more stuff than other solvents.

Someone mentioned alcohols. These are inneresting because you can "tailor"
their solvent properties by smoothly varying the number of carbons *and* the
geometry of said carbons, as well as the number of -OHs.

With single OHs, past 4 or 5 carbons (butanol, pentanol), alcohols
dramatically drop in miscibility with water, at 8 carbons (octanol), it
starts becoming greasy.
Methanol would of course be the most water like.

Ditto the "fatty acids", with the shortest (formic and acetic (vinegar) )
being decidedly good polar solvents, with the same pattern as the alcohols,
and the mid-length and longer ones being what you eat -- olive oil, lard,
etc.

The vegetable oils are surprisingly good solvents for really miserable
shop-grease, superior to dishwashing liquid in a number of cases, and proly
close to the industrial GoJo type stuff. Slower in their action, but really
good, depending on the grease at hand.

You read pretty often this "universal solvent" bidniss about water, but I
think it is a mis-appropriation of the idea that water seems to be
universally required for life -- at least life as we know it. And, there
might be some gray areas, even there.
--
Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav Congressman) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
Hey, Big Boy, is that a wad (of cash) in yer pocket, or are you just
glad to see me??

Post by Rarius
Rarius

Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they bought
from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is roll
marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser material
is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

[Mike]

Post by Rarius
All the solvents you seem to have tried are covalent-organic compounds.
Perhaps it will respond to an ionic solvent... like water! Its called the
universal solvent for a reason!

The only true universal solvent is spit, specifically that of your
mother.


--

[e***@whidbey.com]

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 11:55:10 -0800, Jon Anderson

Post by Jon Anderson
Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they
bought from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is
roll marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser
material is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

My son told me about aluminum from McMaster Carr that he uses and the
only solvent he's found that works is laquer thinner.
ERS

[Jon Anderson]

Post by e***@whidbey.com
My son told me about aluminum from McMaster Carr that he uses and the
only solvent he's found that works is laquer thinner.

The one solvent I don't have on hand.... I'll pick up a can next time
I'm in town and give it a try.


Thanks,

Jon

[Sheck]

What did you come up with ? I too have a customer that requests the markings to be removed . My customer does pay extra for it but it's still alot of time to hit each part with scotchbrite . I've been looking for a more efficient way . I use a surface conditioning tool with a scotchbrite "drum" . Does speed things up but there has to be a better wa

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Sheck
What did you come up with ? I too have a customer that requests the
markings to be removed . My customer does pay extra for it but it's
still alot of time to hit each part with scotchbrite . I've been looking
for a more efficient way . I use a surface conditioning tool with a
scotchbrite "drum" . Does speed things up but there has to be a better way

Some wire wheels are softer than others. If removing the paint/ink
markings is all you need to do that is more than adequate, and will not
gum up like a surface conditioning belt or wheel. It still takes a
little time for each piece.

[Cliff]

Post by Jon Anderson
Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they
bought from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is
roll marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser
material is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

Methylene Chloride if you can get it & use it safely,
probably.
"OSHA considers methylene chloride to be a potential occupational carcinogen."

Removes magic marker too IIRC.

[Cliff]

Post by Jon Anderson
Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they
bought from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is
roll marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser
material is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

Did you try any alcohol or acetone?

[BottleBob]

Post by Cliff

Post by Jon Anderson
Started a job for a customer with some supplied 6061 flat bar they
bought from McMaster. I've always removed the material/mfg data that is
roll marked down the length with acetone. To my surprise, this Kaiser
material is printed with something that acetone won't even touch.
I tried naphtha, alcohol, WD-40, Berryman B-12, brake fluid, and starter
fluid as well with no success.
Anyone run across this before and find something that will remove this
printing?
Jon

Did you try any alcohol or acetone?

C:

Did you perhaps miss this part of what you were responding to:

"To my surprise, this Kaiser material is printed with something that
acetone won't even touch."

AND:

"I tried naphtha, alcohol..."

Don't you think it would be advisable to actually read what you're
responding to before replying?

[Jon Anderson]

Post by BottleBob
Don't you think it would be advisable to actually read what you're
responding to before replying?

Why? It would only slow him down and reduce the number of inane posts he
can make...


Jon