Discussion:
It's Been Years And Tom Brewer Still Can't Grasp The Problems With History Based Modeling
(too old to reply)
jon_banquer
2012-06-29 18:02:56 UTC
Permalink
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx

"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I, are not finished in 2D sections – they are only started there and
grow up to much bigger problems in 3D history-based models.

As you know, features are created in history-based applications (like
Creo Parametric, SolidWorks, Sloid Edge, Inventor, etc.) one by one in
hierarchic order. Each feature in this hierarchy corresponds to some
sketch and this sketch is driven by the corresponding system of
equations.

The problems of feature-based methodology may be described as problems
of parent/child relationship. If a parent level feature is deleted or
changed in some way, it can cause unexpected effects on child-level
features. As a result after any changes in the top-level features we
are to regenerate all the child features, i.e. to solve all the
systems of equations, corresponding to the 2D sections of these
features. For complicated parts (containing, may be, 1000 features)
this might be a significant amount of time. In extreme cases (and
sometimes in cases that are not particularly that extreme), user might
be forced to recreate the model from scratch.

The drawback of the feature-based (in other words – history based)
design technique, which is founded on regenerating a model from its
history tree, is that, as more features are added, the geometry is
dependent upon more and more features created earlier. This often
leads to problems, if designer decides to do modifications in some
features at the top of the feature hierarchy.

In order to avoid these modification problems, users of a history-
based application have to plan carefully the design, defining ahead of
time which major elements would be dependent upon other elements. But
planning a long hierarchical sequence of features (if the parts to be
designed are complicated enough) might be not an easy task.

On the other hand, non-efficient 2D Solver (that is not able to
resolve really big sketches) leaves to designer no way around but to
create a lot of small features. Very often designers have to divide
parts into numerous “unnatural” features, because the “natural”
features have such a complicated underlying sketches, that 2D Solver
is not able to solve corresponding systems of equations. As a result
this leads to the history tree of the part, which is much more
extended. And the whole design process becomes much trickier.

These observations show that when it comes the time to do some
modifications in the existing feature-based models we are in front of
numerous problems. But interactive modification of the model is the
fundamental aspect in any design activity! Designer is constantly
going forward and backwards, re-elaborating once and again some
particular aspect of the model, or its general layout, or even coming
back to a previous solution that had been temporarily abandoned. With
feature-based CAD these modifications are tricky.

The principal limitation of the parametric feature-based approach is
the lack of simple instruments to modify interactively a model once it
has been created.

As a respond to all these history-based troubles the CAD industry
proposed the history-free approach. In explicit modeling applications
(like Creo Direct (formerly CoCreate), SpaceClaim, KeyCreator,
SketchUp etc.) users have these simple modification instruments for
their convenience.

But adepts of the history-free approach went from one extreme into
another. Throwing away the features history-tree (which is definitely
step in the right direction) they throw away the most brilliant part
of the history-based approach – the parametrics. History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations! So all the
advantages of the parametric approach are lost!

Why it happened? Why parametric modeling and explicit modeling exist
as two separate worlds?

If both parametric feature-based and direct-modeling approaches have
their advantages (and their drawbacks) why not to merge their best
characteristics in one system (and throw away their drawbacks)? Isn’t
it strange that until now nobody managed to implement such a system?"
Kelly D. Grills
2012-06-29 18:37:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx
<huge snip>

Yawn.
jon_banquer
2012-06-29 18:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kelly D. Grills
<huge snip>
Yawn.
Past your bed time. Nighty, night.
brewertr
2012-07-01 15:04:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx
"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I,
Part I, is not an issue for me, it's something I have come across
maybe once in the last ten years.
Post by jon_banquer
History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations!
Which is a point I brought up years ago and often when you were on the
NX bandwagon. You know where you ignored the questions and statements
altogether. You didn't answer those simple questions regrading use and
how to lock/constrain geometry (design intent) because you hadn't a
clue (no videos).

http://www.cloud-invent.com/CAD-Revolution/Competition.aspx

"If the potetial Partner will not be ready for such kind of a
partnership, we can suggest the same relations to its competitors."

A threat is NOT a good way to woo a customer (partner) and secure
investment capital from them. If they feel this is a good business
practice it means THEY can NOT be trusted.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-01 16:09:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx
"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I,
Part I, is not an issue for me, it's something I have come across
maybe once in the last ten years.
Post by jon_banquer
History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations!
Which is a point I brought up years ago and often when you were on the
NX bandwagon. You know where you ignored the questions and statements
altogether. You didn't answer those simple questions regrading use and
how to lock/constrain geometry (design intent) because you hadn't a
clue (no videos).
http://www.cloud-invent.com/CAD-Revolution/Competition.aspx
"If the potetial Partner will not be ready for such kind of a
partnership, we can suggest the same relations to its competitors."
A threat is NOT a good way to woo a customer (partner) and secure
investment capital from them.  If they feel this is a good business
practice it means THEY can NOT be trusted.
Tom
Brewer, for years in this newsgroup you showed beyond a shadow of a
doubt that you had no idea what was wrong with history based CAD and
that you have no understanding of the need for direct modeling. You
continue to do so.

Now you think you can give advice to a mathematics PhD's with years of
industry experience (He worked for PTC on Pro/E ) who know exactly
what's wrong.

You're a sad, pathetic joke that has no clues about CADCAM and never
will.
brewertr
2012-07-01 21:40:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx
"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I,
Part I, is not an issue for me, it's something I have come across
maybe once in the last ten years.
Post by jon_banquer
History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations!
Which is a point I brought up years ago and often when you were on the
NX bandwagon. You know where you ignored the questions and statements
altogether. You didn't answer those simple questions regrading use and
how to lock/constrain geometry (design intent) because you hadn't a
clue (no videos).
http://www.cloud-invent.com/CAD-Revolution/Competition.aspx
"If the potetial Partner will not be ready for such kind of a
partnership, we can suggest the same relations to its competitors."
A threat is NOT a good way to woo a customer (partner) and secure
investment capital from them.  If they feel this is a good business
practice it means THEY can NOT be trusted.
Tom
Brewer, for years in this newsgroup you showed beyond a shadow of a
doubt that you had no idea what was wrong with history based CAD and
that you have no understanding of the need for direct modeling. You
continue to do so.
All I did is question YOUR need for it Jon, where you claim to be a
machinist/CAM contract programmer.
Post by jon_banquer
Now you think you can give advice to a mathematics PhD's
Mathematics PhD doesn't make him/them good business people. IMO,
threatening prospective partners, investors and customers is not a
good corner stone to build a business relationship on. It is a
warning, a red flag to stay away. If you disagree, prove me wrong by
investing, give them all your money, see what happens.
Post by jon_banquer
with years of
industry experience (He worked for PTC on Pro/E ) who know exactly
what's wrong.
1) If he knew exactly what was wrong, why wasn't it fixed when he was
there? Was he developing this new venture on their dime?
2) Meaning he knew exactly how to stack the deck in the video.
3) They don't have a product, they have a proposal and are fishing for
venture capital.
3) More often than not, the grass is greener on the other side because
it's fertilized with bull shit.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-01 22:13:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx
"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I,
Part I, is not an issue for me, it's something I have come across
maybe once in the last ten years.
Post by jon_banquer
History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations!
Which is a point I brought up years ago and often when you were on the
NX bandwagon. You know where you ignored the questions and statements
altogether. You didn't answer those simple questions regrading use and
how to lock/constrain geometry (design intent) because you hadn't a
clue (no videos).
http://www.cloud-invent.com/CAD-Revolution/Competition.aspx
"If the potetial Partner will not be ready for such kind of a
partnership, we can suggest the same relations to its competitors."
A threat is NOT a good way to woo a customer (partner) and secure
investment capital from them.  If they feel this is a good business
practice it means THEY can NOT be trusted.
Tom
Brewer, for years in this newsgroup you showed beyond a shadow of a
doubt that you had no idea what was wrong with history based CAD and
that you have no understanding of the need for direct modeling. You
continue to do so.
All I did is question YOUR need for it Jon, where you claim to be a
machinist/CAM contract programmer.
Post by jon_banquer
Now you think you can give advice to a mathematics PhD's
Mathematics PhD doesn't make him/them good business people. IMO,
threatening prospective partners, investors and customers is not a
good corner stone to build a business relationship on. It is a
warning, a red flag to stay away. If you disagree, prove me wrong by
investing, give them all your money, see what happens.
Post by jon_banquer
with years of
industry experience (He worked for PTC on Pro/E ) who know exactly
what's wrong.
1) If he knew exactly what was wrong, why wasn't it fixed when he was
there? Was he developing this new venture on their dime?
2) Meaning he knew exactly how to stack the deck in the video.
3) They don't have a product, they have a proposal and are fishing for
venture capital.
3) More often than not, the grass is greener on the other side because
it's fertilized with bull shit.
Tom
"All I did is question YOUR need for it Jon..."

You're a complete moron that can't use basic reason, Brewer. You have
proved this over and over again for many years in this newsgroup.
You're way too stupid to understand what others far smarter and far
more knowledgeable than your have to say about the problems with
history based modeling.

You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
integrated CADCAM even when they are shown in detail in video:



You can barely manage simple parts and scenarios in SolidWorks.

The FACT is you never comment on CADCAM blogs because you have
*nothing* to say about CADCAM, Brewer

You don't have your own blog for the same reason as above.

You don't have any input to the SolidWorks forum because you have no
insight and nothing to say.
brewertr
2012-07-02 01:27:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx
"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I,
Part I, is not an issue for me, it's something I have come across
maybe once in the last ten years.
Post by jon_banquer
History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations!
Which is a point I brought up years ago and often when you were on the
NX bandwagon. You know where you ignored the questions and statements
altogether. You didn't answer those simple questions regrading use and
how to lock/constrain geometry (design intent) because you hadn't a
clue (no videos).
http://www.cloud-invent.com/CAD-Revolution/Competition.aspx
"If the potetial Partner will not be ready for such kind of a
partnership, we can suggest the same relations to its competitors."
A threat is NOT a good way to woo a customer (partner) and secure
investment capital from them.  If they feel this is a good business
practice it means THEY can NOT be trusted.
Tom
Brewer, for years in this newsgroup you showed beyond a shadow of a
doubt that you had no idea what was wrong with history based CAD and
that you have no understanding of the need for direct modeling. You
continue to do so.
All I did is question YOUR need for it Jon, where you claim to be a
machinist/CAM contract programmer.
Post by jon_banquer
Now you think you can give advice to a mathematics PhD's
Mathematics PhD doesn't make him/them good business people. IMO,
threatening prospective partners, investors and customers is not a
good corner stone to build a business relationship on. It is a
warning, a red flag to stay away. If you disagree, prove me wrong by
investing, give them all your money, see what happens.
Post by jon_banquer
with years of
industry experience (He worked for PTC on Pro/E ) who know exactly
what's wrong.
1) If he knew exactly what was wrong, why wasn't it fixed when he was
there? Was he developing this new venture on their dime?
2) Meaning he knew exactly how to stack the deck in the video.
3) They don't have a product, they have a proposal and are fishing for
venture capital.
3) More often than not, the grass is greener on the other side because
it's fertilized with bull shit.
Tom
"All I did is question YOUR need for it Jon..."
You're a complete moron that can't use basic reason, Brewer. You have
proved this over and over again for many years in this newsgroup.
You're way too stupid to understand what others far smarter and far
more knowledgeable than your have to say about the problems with
history based modeling.
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
You can barely manage simple parts and scenarios in SolidWorks.
The FACT is you never comment on CADCAM blogs because you have
*nothing* to say about CADCAM, Brewer
You don't have your own blog for the same reason as above.
You don't have any input to the SolidWorks forum because you have no
insight and nothing to say.
LOL
brewertr
2012-07-02 01:32:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-02 01:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?

Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?

The picture you are able to see is very tiny.
brewertr
2012-07-02 02:58:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-02 03:33:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.

Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
brewertr
2012-07-02 19:06:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.

The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-02 19:58:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?

Specifically:

Which has more robust feature recognition?

Which has a more powerful toolpath library?

Also:

Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?

Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.

Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
jon_banquer
2012-07-02 20:49:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
"Which has a more powerful toolpath library?"

I should have said: Which has the more powerful machining operations
library?
brewertr
2012-07-03 00:05:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-03 00:17:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.

Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.

Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
brewertr
2012-07-03 04:26:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Not unable, I just needed clarification.

Why are you so upset when I don't answer one of your questions
promptly considering more times than not you refuse to answer my
simple direct on topic questions to you?
Post by jon_banquer
Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.
Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
Well if it's videos you're talking about then Siemens wins hands down,
their videos are the best.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-03 04:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Not unable, I just needed clarification.
Why are you so upset when I don't answer one of your questions
promptly considering more times than not you refuse to answer my
simple direct on topic questions to you?
Post by jon_banquer
Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.
Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
Well if it's videos you're talking about then Siemens wins hands down,
their videos are the best.
Tom
Wrong. Almost all of Siemens NX CADCAM videos suck and don't give a
realistic picture. There are some exceptions like what I've linked to
in other threads. I'm *still* waiting for you to answer the questions
I've asked you.
jon_banquer
2012-07-03 04:41:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Not unable, I just needed clarification.
Why are you so upset when I don't answer one of your questions
promptly considering more times than not you refuse to answer my
simple direct on topic questions to you?
Post by jon_banquer
Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.
Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
Well if it's videos you're talking about then Siemens wins hands down,
their videos are the best.
Tom
Wrong. Almost all of Siemens NX CADCAM videos suck and don't give a
realistic picture. There are some exceptions like what I've linked to
in other threads. I'm *still* waiting for you to answer the questions
I've asked you.
Here are the questions again you continue to refuse to answer:

How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?

Specifically:

Which has more robust feature recognition?

Which has a more powerful toolpath library?

Also:

Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?

Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.

Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
brewertr
2012-07-04 06:41:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Not unable, I just needed clarification.
Why are you so upset when I don't answer one of your questions
promptly considering more times than not you refuse to answer my
simple direct on topic questions to you?
Post by jon_banquer
Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.
Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
Well if it's videos you're talking about then Siemens wins hands down,
their videos are the best.
Tom
Wrong. Almost all of Siemens NX CADCAM videos suck and don't give a
realistic picture. There are some exceptions like what I've linked to
in other threads. I'm *still* waiting for you to answer the questions
I've asked you.
Here are the questions again you continue to refuse to answer.
I am unaware of any question you posed to me in a thread I've been
active where I haven't answered. However on a consistent basis you
refuse to answer my questions to you.

As stated before, I am not unwilling to answer, I need clarification
(from you). This is not going to be a one sided discussion, for me to
answer your questions you need to do the same and answer mine as well.

Tom
brewertr
2012-07-04 06:12:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Not unable, I just needed clarification.
Why are you so upset when I don't answer one of your questions
promptly considering more times than not you refuse to answer my
simple direct on topic questions to you?
Post by jon_banquer
Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.
Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
Well if it's videos you're talking about then Siemens wins hands down,
their videos are the best.
Tom
Wrong. Almost all of Siemens NX CADCAM videos suck and don't give a
realistic picture. There are some exceptions like what I've linked to
in other threads. I'm *still* waiting for you to answer the questions
I've asked you.
To date you rarely if ever to answer my questions to you, just as you
did here responding to my post.

Does this mean you will answer my questions?

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-04 06:19:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Not unable, I just needed clarification.
Why are you so upset when I don't answer one of your questions
promptly considering more times than not you refuse to answer my
simple direct on topic questions to you?
Post by jon_banquer
Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.
Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
Well if it's videos you're talking about then Siemens wins hands down,
their videos are the best.
Tom
Wrong. Almost all of Siemens NX CADCAM videos suck and don't give a
realistic picture. There are some exceptions like what I've linked to
in other threads. I'm *still* waiting for you to answer the questions
I've asked you.
To date you rarely if ever to answer my questions to you, just as you
did here responding to my post.
Does this mean you will answer my questions?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
brewertr
2012-07-04 06:49:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Not unable, I just needed clarification.
Why are you so upset when I don't answer one of your questions
promptly considering more times than not you refuse to answer my
simple direct on topic questions to you?
Post by jon_banquer
Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.
Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
Well if it's videos you're talking about then Siemens wins hands down,
their videos are the best.
Tom
Wrong. Almost all of Siemens NX CADCAM videos suck and don't give a
realistic picture. There are some exceptions like what I've linked to
in other threads. I'm *still* waiting for you to answer the questions
I've asked you.
To date you rarely if ever to answer my questions to you, just as you
did here responding to my post.
Does this mean you will answer my questions?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
I did answer, "I need clarification". I need clarification and a
commitment from you to answer my questions as well.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-04 07:25:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Not unable, I just needed clarification.
Why are you so upset when I don't answer one of your questions
promptly considering more times than not you refuse to answer my
simple direct on topic questions to you?
Post by jon_banquer
Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.
Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
Well if it's videos you're talking about then Siemens wins hands down,
their videos are the best.
Tom
Wrong. Almost all of Siemens NX CADCAM videos suck and don't give a
realistic picture. There are some exceptions like what I've linked to
in other threads. I'm *still* waiting for you to answer the questions
I've asked you.
To date you rarely if ever to answer my questions to you, just as you
did here responding to my post.
Does this mean you will answer my questions?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
I did answer, "I need clarification". I need clarification and a
commitment from you to answer my questions as well.
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
brewertr
2012-07-04 08:30:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Not unable, I just needed clarification.
Why are you so upset when I don't answer one of your questions
promptly considering more times than not you refuse to answer my
simple direct on topic questions to you?
Post by jon_banquer
Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.
Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
Well if it's videos you're talking about then Siemens wins hands down,
their videos are the best.
Tom
Wrong. Almost all of Siemens NX CADCAM videos suck and don't give a
realistic picture. There are some exceptions like what I've linked to
in other threads. I'm *still* waiting for you to answer the questions
I've asked you.
To date you rarely if ever to answer my questions to you, just as you
did here responding to my post.
Does this mean you will answer my questions?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
I did answer, "I need clarification". I need clarification and a
commitment from you to answer my questions as well.
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-04 14:33:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Not unable, I just needed clarification.
Why are you so upset when I don't answer one of your questions
promptly considering more times than not you refuse to answer my
simple direct on topic questions to you?
Post by jon_banquer
Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.
Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
Well if it's videos you're talking about then Siemens wins hands down,
their videos are the best.
Tom
Wrong. Almost all of Siemens NX CADCAM videos suck and don't give a
realistic picture. There are some exceptions like what I've linked to
in other threads. I'm *still* waiting for you to answer the questions
I've asked you.
To date you rarely if ever to answer my questions to you, just as you
did here responding to my post.
Does this mean you will answer my questions?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
I did answer, "I need clarification". I need clarification and a
commitment from you to answer my questions as well.
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.

For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
vinny
2012-07-04 14:54:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.

For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.


BOBCAM RULEZ!
jon_banquer
2012-07-04 15:00:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.
For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
BOBCAM RULEZ!
Your trolls get lamer all the time.
vinny
2012-07-04 15:03:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.
For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
BOBCAM RULEZ!
Your trolls get lamer all the time.

It's no troll.
It's a diamond in the ruff.
jon_banquer
2012-07-04 15:10:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.
For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
BOBCAM RULEZ!
Your trolls get lamer all the time.
It's no troll.
It's a diamond in the ruff.
Yup, this is even lamer than your last troll.
vinny
2012-07-04 15:21:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.
For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
BOBCAM RULEZ!
Your trolls get lamer all the time.
It's no troll.
It's a diamond in the ruff.
Yup, this is even lamer than your last troll.

It has the toolpaths to do the job, but...
It's sub 32 bit. It can only access 2 gig of ram.
nice.
Their documented solution to complex model machining is to rope em off into
sections.

ok, so it doesn't exactly rule lol
jon_banquer
2012-07-04 15:41:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.
For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
BOBCAM RULEZ!
Your trolls get lamer all the time.
It's no troll.
It's a diamond in the ruff.
Yup, this is even lamer than your last troll.
It has the toolpaths to do the job, but...
It's sub 32 bit. It can only access 2 gig of ram.
nice.
Their documented solution to complex model machining  is to rope em off into
sections.
ok, so it doesn't exactly rule lol
Suggest you go with BobCAM For SolidWorks.

BobCAMFor SolidWorks is brilliantly designed to only run in Part mode
so you don't have to deal with any of that nasty Assembly mode stuff.

BBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
DanP
2012-07-05 15:43:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
BobCAMFor SolidWorks is brilliantly designed to only run in Part mode
so you don't have to deal with any of that nasty Assembly mode stuff.
Assembly too complicated for you?

DanP
vinny
2012-07-05 18:17:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.
For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
BOBCAM RULEZ!
Your trolls get lamer all the time.
It's no troll.
It's a diamond in the ruff.
Yup, this is even lamer than your last troll.
It has the toolpaths to do the job, but...
It's sub 32 bit. It can only access 2 gig of ram.
nice.
Their documented solution to complex model machining is to rope em off
into
sections.
ok, so it doesn't exactly rule lol
Suggest you go with BobCAM For SolidWorks.

BobCAMFor SolidWorks is brilliantly designed to only run in Part mode
so you don't have to deal with any of that nasty Assembly mode stuff.

BBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


**********
It's side work in local shop, all I know is they have version 24. I don't
know if it's solidworks or not.
My guess is not.
Iv'e been reading up on version 25, seems relatively powerful. Supports
stock models in toolpaths.
jon_banquer
2012-07-05 18:44:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.
For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
BOBCAM RULEZ!
Your trolls get lamer all the time.
It's no troll.
It's a diamond in the ruff.
Yup, this is even lamer than your last troll.
It has the toolpaths to do the job, but...
It's sub 32 bit. It can only access 2 gig of ram.
nice.
Their documented solution to complex model machining is to rope em off
into
sections.
ok, so it doesn't exactly rule lol
Suggest you go with BobCAM For SolidWorks.
BobCAMFor SolidWorks is brilliantly designed to only run in Part mode
so you don't have to deal with any of that nasty Assembly mode stuff.
BBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
**********
It's side work in local shop, all I know is they have version 24. I don't
know if it's solidworks or not.
My guess is not.
Iv'e been reading up on version 25, seems relatively powerful. Supports
stock models in toolpaths.
I'm sure you can find some way to make parts with it. I always did. I
didn't enjoy the bugs, the workarounds or all the lies from BobCAD
employee Chris Corbell but I found away to get the job done.
brewertr
2012-07-05 06:23:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.
For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
BOBCAM RULEZ!
[
I use BobCAD/CAM DOS on the shop floor to quickly figure out points
for manual programming.
]- jon banquer

[
I like and use lowly BobCAD DOS on the shop floor when I need to find
the points for a lathe toolpath.
] - jon banquer
jon_banquer
2012-07-05 06:32:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.
For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
BOBCAM RULEZ!
[
I use BobCAD/CAM DOS on the shop floor to quickly figure out points
for manual programming.
]- jon banquer
 [
I like and use lowly BobCAD DOS on the shop floor when I need to find
the points for a lathe toolpath.
] - jon banquer
Just another way that you show your massive stupidity and CADCAM
ignorance, Brewer.

BobCAD DOS wasn't written by BobCAD. It was written by Tensor. It's a
brilliant 2D CAD program that's so clever it doesn't require mouse
input. The only thing BobCAD about it is the name.

Thanks again for showing how fucking dumb you truly are and now little
you truly know.
brewertr
2012-07-05 14:04:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.
For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
BOBCAM RULEZ!
[
I use BobCAD/CAM DOS on the shop floor to quickly figure out points
for manual programming.
]- jon banquer
 [
I like and use lowly BobCAD DOS on the shop floor when I need to find
the points for a lathe toolpath.
] - jon banquer
Just another way that you show your massive stupidity and CADCAM
ignorance, Brewer.
BobCAD DOS wasn't written by BobCAD. It was written by Tensor. It's a
brilliant 2D CAD program that's so clever it doesn't require mouse
input. The only thing BobCAD about it is the name.
Thanks again for showing how fucking dumb you truly are and now little
you truly know.
It was good for the humor content.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-04 14:34:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Not unable, I just needed clarification.
Why are you so upset when I don't answer one of your questions
promptly considering more times than not you refuse to answer my
simple direct on topic questions to you?
Post by jon_banquer
Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.
Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
Well if it's videos you're talking about then Siemens wins hands down,
their videos are the best.
Tom
Wrong. Almost all of Siemens NX CADCAM videos suck and don't give a
realistic picture. There are some exceptions like what I've linked to
in other threads. I'm *still* waiting for you to answer the questions
I've asked you.
To date you rarely if ever to answer my questions to you, just as you
did here responding to my post.
Does this mean you will answer my questions?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
I did answer, "I need clarification". I need clarification and a
commitment from you to answer my questions as well.
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.
For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
Once again:

Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
jon_banquer
2012-07-04 18:00:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Not unable, I just needed clarification.
Why are you so upset when I don't answer one of your questions
promptly considering more times than not you refuse to answer my
simple direct on topic questions to you?
Post by jon_banquer
Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.
Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
Well if it's videos you're talking about then Siemens wins hands down,
their videos are the best.
Tom
Wrong. Almost all of Siemens NX CADCAM videos suck and don't give a
realistic picture. There are some exceptions like what I've linked to
in other threads. I'm *still* waiting for you to answer the questions
I've asked you.
To date you rarely if ever to answer my questions to you, just as you
did here responding to my post.
Does this mean you will answer my questions?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
I did answer, "I need clarification". I need clarification and a
commitment from you to answer my questions as well.
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.
For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Been waiting for days for answers from you, Brewer. This is what
happens when I kick bullshiters like you to the curb who pretend to
know CADCAM but don't really know jack shit about it.

Idiots like you (and there are plenty of them.) want easy, simple
answers where none exist. Look at the bright side, Brewer... you can
still fool fucking morons like Gummer. ;>)

Suggest start at 1:39 of this video and think about what they show and
compare it to a much less powerful template type approach. Who uses
the much less powerful template approach, Brewer? ;>)



Pick yourself up out of the gutter I kicked you in, dust yourself off
and tell me again how NX CAM isn't anything special, Brewer.
jon_banquer
2012-07-04 18:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Not unable, I just needed clarification.
Why are you so upset when I don't answer one of your questions
promptly considering more times than not you refuse to answer my
simple direct on topic questions to you?
Post by jon_banquer
Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.
Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
Well if it's videos you're talking about then Siemens wins hands down,
their videos are the best.
Tom
Wrong. Almost all of Siemens NX CADCAM videos suck and don't give a
realistic picture. There are some exceptions like what I've linked to
in other threads. I'm *still* waiting for you to answer the questions
I've asked you.
To date you rarely if ever to answer my questions to you, just as you
did here responding to my post.
Does this mean you will answer my questions?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
I did answer, "I need clarification". I need clarification and a
commitment from you to answer my questions as well.
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.
For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Been waiting for days for answers from you, Brewer. This is what
happens when I kick bullshiters like you to the curb who pretend to
know CADCAM but don't really know jack shit about it.
Idiots like you (and there are plenty of them.) want easy, simple
answers where none exist. Look at the bright side, Brewer... you can
still fool fucking morons like Gummer. ;>)
Suggest start at 1:39 of this video and think about what they show and
compare it to a much less powerful template type approach. Who uses
the much less powerful template approach, Brewer? ;>)
http://youtu.be/JbXazVrlTXs
Pick yourself up out of the gutter I kicked you in, dust yourself off
and tell me again how NX CAM isn't anything special, Brewer.
Since video isn't your strong point, Brewer and was also a failing of
the person you spent so much time stalking in this newsgroup while he
was still breathing perhaps this will help:

http://www.imakenews.com/ugscorp/e_article001399325.cfm?x=b11,0,w

"Generating the machining process for each feature on demand

Having recognized the features on a part model the next step is to
determine the best process. This is where the clever technology comes
in. The system automatically selects the operations needed to machine
a feature starting with the finishing operations and working backwards
to the roughing operations. The selection of operations is based on
priorities and an in-process geometry conditions concept. This concept
allows the user to re-use operation rules across a variety of
different feature types. Each machining step is selected using this
configurable logic and criteria that are managed in a machining
database provided as a part of the system. Customers need only
maintain this library of possible operations. This is much better than
a typical template based system that must store and maintain thousands
of possible machining combinations to cover all the possible feature
configurations. Any logic is held only in the central machining
database and not in numerous, complex feature machining templates. A
machining knowledge editor with a graphical user interface makes it
easy to work with the entries in the machining data library. A single
edit made in the database will affect all features that call the
edited machining process next time in future machining jobs. Of course
stored parts and NC programs are unaffected unless they are re-
programmed against the updated database. The result – a whole new way
of defining and managing feature based automation, a vastly reduced
amount of data to store, and centralized unique record only for each
separate machining method. These simple method components can be
assembled into multiple machining processes to address complete and
complex features."

Is any of this sinking in and expanding your tiny CADCAM knowledge,
Brewer? Seems like this would be a great place to use your favorite
line which you use to hide your very limited CADCAM knowledge....


"LOL"
jon_banquer
2012-07-04 20:49:36 UTC
Permalink
Once again:

Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
brewertr
2012-07-04 22:02:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Why are you afraid to agree to a free and even exchange?

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-04 22:33:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Why are you afraid to agree to a free and even exchange?
Tom
Because it's never a free and even exchange with a lying, no good,
fucktard like you, Brewer.

A much better question is why are you afraid to answer the questions I
asked you and why do you keep avoiding them.

I already know how limited your CADCAM knowledge is. It's not like I'm
going to be surprised because you don't know jack shit about NX CAM or
how advanced its Feature Recognition is. Hell, I evenh anded you all
the clues on a silver platter, not that a scumbag, piece of shit like
you will ever admit it. ;>) As I've proven there are major differences
in the Feature Recognition between CAMWorks and NX CAM. You claimed
there was nothing special about NX CAM and now you're having to face
the reality that once again you're dead wrong. You don't know dick
about CADCAM Brewer because your a fake, a phony and a CADCAM moron
along the lines of someone like lil Timmy Markoski who is about one
step above a script kiddie.
brewertr
2012-07-04 23:44:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Because it's never a free and even exchange with a lying, no good,
fucktard like
Jon Banquer
jon_banquer
2012-07-04 23:52:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Because it's never a free and even exchange with a lying, no good,
fucktard like
Jon Banquer
As stupid as your typical LOL response.
brewertr
2012-07-05 00:09:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
A much better question is why are you afraid to answer the questions I
asked you and why do you keep avoiding them.
I did answer, my answer is "I need clarification". Your questions like
your opinions are grand generalities using sales and marketing terms
lacking empirical, quantifiable data in support. To compare and
evaluate programs you left out the most important part.

Do you know what you left out?

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-05 00:27:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
A much better question is why are you afraid to answer the questions I
asked you and why do you keep avoiding them.
I did answer, my answer is "I need clarification". Your questions like
your opinions are grand generalities using sales and marketing terms
lacking empirical, quantifiable data in support. To compare and
evaluate programs you left out the most important part.
Do you know what you left out?
Tom
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.

You have no blog for a reason.

You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason.

You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason.

You associate with fucking morons for a reason.

The reasons for the above are your a bullshiter, a phoney and a fake
with very little CADCAM knowledge.
brewertr
2012-07-05 01:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
A much better question is why are you afraid to answer the questions I
asked you and why do you keep avoiding them.
I did answer, my answer is "I need clarification". Your questions like
your opinions are grand generalities using sales and marketing terms
lacking empirical, quantifiable data in support. To compare and
evaluate programs you left out the most important part.
Do you know what you left out?
Tom
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason.
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason.
You associate with fucking morons for a reason.
The reasons for the above are your a bullshiter, a phoney and a fake
with very little CADCAM knowledge.
So does this mean you don't know what you left out, what needs to be
defined in great detail from the very beginning, before you can
effectively evaluate and compare CAM, CAD/CAM programs?

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-05 01:42:42 UTC
Permalink
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.

You have no blog for a reason.

You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason.

You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason.

You associate with fucking morons for a reason.

The reasons for the above are your a bullshiter, a phony and a fake
with very little CADCAM knowledge.
brewertr
2012-07-05 06:21:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
Just because you didn't like the answer doesn't mean I didn't answer.

Why did you not ask what I need clarification on and/or why?
Post by jon_banquer
You have no blog for a reason.
What qualifications did you have to show in order to start your blog?

How many of yours have been shut down for violating terms of service?
Post by jon_banquer
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason.
Because I don't read them?
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason.
You have YouTube videos, are they as good as your machining tips page
(before that blog was shut down)?
Post by jon_banquer
You associate with fucking morons for a reason.
Those who can do, those who can't blog.
Post by jon_banquer
The reasons for the above are your a bullshiter, a phony and a fake
with very little CADCAM knowledge.
[
I'm committed to working with HSMWorks to doing just that. Shouldn't
be too hard because their head of US operations and I see things in
almost the exact same way and because HSMWorks is interested in what I
have to say and wants to work with me.
]- Jon Banquer -

[
Who I'm working with to deliver what truly will be the next generation
of CAM: www.hsmworks.com
]-Jon Banquer-

[
Jon is not affiliated with HSMWorks ApS in any way and that we cannot
control what people are writing on the web. Anybody can get
evaluation licenses of HSMWorks and test it themselves. I hope this
clarifies any doubt.
] - HSMWorks ApS -

[
He pushes UG as THE CAD/CAM solution. Can't think of worse advice for
many small job shops.
] - Jon Banquer -

[
If I were to guess at this point what system is best it would be UG
NX CAM / UG NX CAM Express.
] - Jon Banquer-

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-05 06:35:45 UTC
Permalink
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.

You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.

You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.

You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.

You associate with fucking morons for a reason... you're too fucking
dumb to know the difference.

You're a bullshiter, a phony and a fake with very little CADCAM
knowledge.
brewertr
2012-07-05 14:28:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
Can't compare CAM packages using empirical data without first
describing the end users work, the mix, machines, capabilities, wants,
needs, future expansion plans, what the customer supplies them with,
operating system, etc.

Which program is "more robust", has "better Libraries", "better
Feature Recognition".....bla, bla, bla is simply opinion not based on
empirical data unless you first describe:

1) Parts, assemblies to be machined
2) what the customer/s supplies you
3) machines and capabilities to be programmed
4) Mix
5) Needs and Wants
6) Future expansion plans

To determine which does the work better, faster, more reliable, error
free code, produces the best optimized code you actually have to try
it out on parts. Real parts and assemblies that have all the features
you run, for machines that actually have the capabilities.

So Jon, what you left out was the most important part, describing the
parts and machines to be programmed. So we can take the programs heads
up and compare each.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-05 14:42:37 UTC
Permalink
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.

You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.

You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.

You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.

You associate with fucking morons for a reason... you're too fucking
dumb to know the difference.

You're a bullshiter, a phony and a fake with very little CADCAM
knowledge
brewertr
2012-07-05 18:04:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
You associate with fucking morons for a reason... you're too fucking
dumb to know the difference.
You're a bullshiter, a phony and a fake with very little CADCAM
knowledge
LOL
brewertr
2012-07-14 16:23:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk

http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-14 16:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
You claim you're from San Diego, CA, Brewer. Name an account in San
Diego, CA that uses SmartCAM.

No one except old existing users wants to use SmartCAM because of its
obsolete user interface which their management refuses to update.
brewertr
2012-07-14 18:21:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
You claim you're from San Diego, CA, Brewer. Name an account in San
Diego, CA that uses SmartCAM.
No one except old existing users wants to use SmartCAM because of its
obsolete user interface which their management refuses to update.
As usual you miss the point..........Mr. CAD/CAM Dummy.
jon_banquer
2012-07-14 18:37:43 UTC
Permalink
As usual, Brewer you try and apply a hammer (in this case AFR) because
it's the only tool you know.

Sometimes a screwdriver is the tool needed / a better tool to use.

You're a "tool", Brewer and I enjoy using you. ;>)
brewertr
2012-07-14 19:21:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
As usual, Brewer you try and apply a hammer (in this case AFR) because
it's the only tool you know.
Sometimes a screwdriver is the tool needed / a better tool to use.
You're a "tool", Brewer and I enjoy using you. ;>)
Post to the wrong thread did you Jon?

Tom
brewertr
2012-07-14 18:48:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
You claim you're from San Diego, CA, Brewer. Name an account in San
Diego, CA that uses SmartCAM.
No one except old existing users wants to use SmartCAM because of its
obsolete user interface which their management refuses to update.
It's throughput in a shop that counts, NOT pretty user interfaces nor
solid models.

Those macros were created about 15 years ago. Show me anything easier
to create, faster and better programming a family of parts than what I
showed. The video's are in real time, a few seconds and the machine
operator has error free code generated and sent to the machine.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-14 19:01:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
You claim you're from San Diego, CA, Brewer. Name an account in San
Diego, CA that uses SmartCAM.
No one except old existing users wants to use SmartCAM because of its
obsolete user interface which their management refuses to update.
It's throughput in a shop that counts, NOT pretty user interfaces nor
solid models.
Those macros were created about 15 years ago. Show me anything easier
to create, faster and better programming a family of parts than what I
showed. The video's are in real time, a few seconds and the machine
operator has error free code generated and sent to the machine.
Tom
I figured the kind of simple parts you show in your video were all
made in China now. For more complex parts that are still made in the
USA you can't get throughput if you're wasting time doing needless
Chaining because the CADCAM system is stupid and can't use the
information a solid model contains.
brewertr
2012-07-14 19:39:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
You claim you're from San Diego, CA, Brewer. Name an account in San
Diego, CA that uses SmartCAM.
No one except old existing users wants to use SmartCAM because of its
obsolete user interface which their management refuses to update.
It's throughput in a shop that counts, NOT pretty user interfaces nor
solid models.
Those macros were created about 15 years ago. Show me anything easier
to create, faster and better programming a family of parts than what I
showed. The video's are in real time, a few seconds and the machine
operator has error free code generated and sent to the machine.
Tom
I figured the kind of simple parts you show in your video were all
made in China now. For more complex parts that are still made in the
USA
They are aerospace parts that still require domestic content, so no
they are not made in China.
Post by jon_banquer
you can't get throughput if you're wasting time doing needless
Chaining because the CADCAM system is stupid and can't use the
information a solid model contains.
No manual chaining JON, it's ALL AUTOMATIC, it's in the macro, because
I wrote the macro to do it that way......ROFLMAO.

Of course I could have given it a cool name, hide it in the code so
you can be fooled again into believing "There is no such thing as
chaining, it's not necessary".

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-14 21:55:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
You claim you're from San Diego, CA, Brewer. Name an account in San
Diego, CA that uses SmartCAM.
No one except old existing users wants to use SmartCAM because of its
obsolete user interface which their management refuses to update.
It's throughput in a shop that counts, NOT pretty user interfaces nor
solid models.
Those macros were created about 15 years ago. Show me anything easier
to create, faster and better programming a family of parts than what I
showed. The video's are in real time, a few seconds and the machine
operator has error free code generated and sent to the machine.
Tom
I figured the kind of simple parts you show in your video were all
made in China now. For more complex parts that are still made in the
USA
They are aerospace parts that still require domestic content, so no
they are not made in China.
Post by jon_banquer
you can't get throughput if you're wasting time doing needless
Chaining because the CADCAM system is stupid and can't use the
information a solid model contains.
No manual chaining JON, it's ALL AUTOMATIC, it's in the macro, because
I wrote the macro to do it that way......ROFLMAO.
Of course I could have given it a cool name, hide it in the code so
you can be fooled again into believing "There is no such thing as
chaining, it's not necessary".
Tom
"They are aerospace parts that still require domestic content, so no
they are not made in China."

Good thing for an idiot like you who is ten years behind when it come
to understanding what's needed in a modern CADCAM system. Look at the
bright side, Brewer: Cliffy Huprich was 20 years behind.

ROTFLMFAO

"No manual chaining JON, it's ALL AUTOMATIC, it's in the macro,
because I wrote the macro to do it that way......ROFLMAO"

The joke, as per usual, is on you Brewer.

StupidCAM, like a lot of CAM programs, can't extract the needed
information from a solid model like TopSolid CADCAM 7 can:

http://www.clear-cut.com/?p=818

"TopSolid’Cam 7 actually uses the information of the solid model on
which you are machining. And here’s the best part. Are you ready for
it?

You almost never have to chain anything for 2D milling or turning!"
brewertr
2012-07-15 00:20:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
You claim you're from San Diego, CA, Brewer. Name an account in San
Diego, CA that uses SmartCAM.
No one except old existing users wants to use SmartCAM because of its
obsolete user interface which their management refuses to update.
It's throughput in a shop that counts, NOT pretty user interfaces nor
solid models.
Those macros were created about 15 years ago. Show me anything easier
to create, faster and better programming a family of parts than what I
showed. The video's are in real time, a few seconds and the machine
operator has error free code generated and sent to the machine.
Tom
I figured the kind of simple parts you show in your video were all
made in China now. For more complex parts that are still made in the
USA
They are aerospace parts that still require domestic content, so no
they are not made in China.
Post by jon_banquer
you can't get throughput if you're wasting time doing needless
Chaining because the CADCAM system is stupid and can't use the
information a solid model contains.
No manual chaining JON, it's ALL AUTOMATIC, it's in the macro, because
I wrote the macro to do it that way......ROFLMAO.
Of course I could have given it a cool name, hide it in the code so
you can be fooled again into believing "There is no such thing as
chaining, it's not necessary".
Tom
"They are aerospace parts that still require domestic content, so no
they are not made in China."
Good thing for an idiot like you who is ten years behind when it come
to understanding what's needed in a modern CADCAM system. Look at the
bright side, Brewer: Cliffy Huprich was 20 years behind.
ROTFLMFAO
"No manual chaining JON, it's ALL AUTOMATIC, it's in the macro,
because I wrote the macro to do it that way......ROFLMAO"
The joke, as per usual, is on you Brewer.
StupidCAM, like a lot of CAM programs, can't extract the needed
Hint: Tabulated drawings Jon. There's, no information to extract till
you program the model. In the (real time) videos I made, good G-Code
gets to the machine well before you can boot your modern program, let
alone create a solid model.
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.clear-cut.com/?p=818
"TopSolid’Cam 7 actually uses the information of the solid model on
which you are machining.
See, that's where you keep making your mistake. Tabulated drawings,
which are still the standard for many part family standards today are
NOT solid models they are "tabulated drawings".

So with regards to family of parts similar to those shown in the
video, a 15-20 year old program like SmartCAM can still kick the crap
our of your CAD/CAM-De-Jour. As shown in the videos anyone can
generate and have error free code to the machine tool before you can
even draw a part(s) in your modern CAD/CAM-De-Jour. Now multiply that
by thousands of variations, dash numbers, material types, barstock,
forgings, castings, machines, controllers, tooling etc. and tell me
which is more powerful, robust and cost effective.
Post by jon_banquer
And here’s the best part. Are you ready for it?
You almost never have to chain anything for 2D milling or turning!"
You ALWAYS have to chain Jon, that's how CAD, CAM and CAD/CAM programs
work, you just don't know how it's done.......LOL.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-15 02:11:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
You claim you're from San Diego, CA, Brewer. Name an account in San
Diego, CA that uses SmartCAM.
No one except old existing users wants to use SmartCAM because of its
obsolete user interface which their management refuses to update.
It's throughput in a shop that counts, NOT pretty user interfaces nor
solid models.
Those macros were created about 15 years ago. Show me anything easier
to create, faster and better programming a family of parts than what I
showed. The video's are in real time, a few seconds and the machine
operator has error free code generated and sent to the machine.
Tom
I figured the kind of simple parts you show in your video were all
made in China now. For more complex parts that are still made in the
USA
They are aerospace parts that still require domestic content, so no
they are not made in China.
Post by jon_banquer
you can't get throughput if you're wasting time doing needless
Chaining because the CADCAM system is stupid and can't use the
information a solid model contains.
No manual chaining JON, it's ALL AUTOMATIC, it's in the macro, because
I wrote the macro to do it that way......ROFLMAO.
Of course I could have given it a cool name, hide it in the code so
you can be fooled again into believing "There is no such thing as
chaining, it's not necessary".
Tom
"They are aerospace parts that still require domestic content, so no
they are not made in China."
Good thing for an idiot like you who is ten years behind when it come
to understanding what's needed in a modern CADCAM system. Look at the
bright side, Brewer: Cliffy Huprich was 20 years behind.
ROTFLMFAO
"No manual chaining JON, it's ALL AUTOMATIC, it's in the macro,
because I wrote the macro to do it that way......ROFLMAO"
The joke, as per usual, is on you Brewer.
StupidCAM, like a lot of CAM programs, can't extract the needed
Hint: Tabulated drawings Jon. There's, no information to extract till
you program the model. In the (real time) videos I made, good G-Code
gets to the machine well before you can boot your modern program, let
alone create a solid model.
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.clear-cut.com/?p=818
"TopSolid’Cam 7 actually uses the information of the solid model on
which you are machining.
See, that's where you keep making your mistake. Tabulated drawings,
which are still the standard for many part family standards today are
NOT solid models they are "tabulated drawings".
So with regards to family of parts similar to those shown in the
video, a 15-20 year old program like SmartCAM can still kick the crap
our of your CAD/CAM-De-Jour. As shown in the videos anyone can
generate and have error free code to the machine tool before you can
even draw a part(s) in your modern CAD/CAM-De-Jour. Now multiply that
by thousands of variations, dash numbers, material types, barstock,
forgings, castings, machines, controllers, tooling etc. and tell me
which is more powerful, robust and cost effective.
Post by jon_banquer
And here’s the best part. Are you ready for it?
You almost never have to chain anything for 2D milling or turning!"
You ALWAYS have to chain Jon, that's how CAD, CAM and CAD/CAM programs
work, you just don't know how it's done.......LOL.
Tom
What part of I don't care about automating programs for simple parts
like these that are now made in China don't you understand, Brewer?
brewertr
2012-07-15 03:31:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
You claim you're from San Diego, CA, Brewer. Name an account in San
Diego, CA that uses SmartCAM.
No one except old existing users wants to use SmartCAM because of its
obsolete user interface which their management refuses to update.
It's throughput in a shop that counts, NOT pretty user interfaces nor
solid models.
Those macros were created about 15 years ago. Show me anything easier
to create, faster and better programming a family of parts than what I
showed. The video's are in real time, a few seconds and the machine
operator has error free code generated and sent to the machine.
Tom
I figured the kind of simple parts you show in your video were all
made in China now. For more complex parts that are still made in the
USA
They are aerospace parts that still require domestic content, so no
they are not made in China.
Post by jon_banquer
you can't get throughput if you're wasting time doing needless
Chaining because the CADCAM system is stupid and can't use the
information a solid model contains.
No manual chaining JON, it's ALL AUTOMATIC, it's in the macro, because
I wrote the macro to do it that way......ROFLMAO.
Of course I could have given it a cool name, hide it in the code so
you can be fooled again into believing "There is no such thing as
chaining, it's not necessary".
Tom
"They are aerospace parts that still require domestic content, so no
they are not made in China."
Good thing for an idiot like you who is ten years behind when it come
to understanding what's needed in a modern CADCAM system. Look at the
bright side, Brewer: Cliffy Huprich was 20 years behind.
ROTFLMFAO
"No manual chaining JON, it's ALL AUTOMATIC, it's in the macro,
because I wrote the macro to do it that way......ROFLMAO"
The joke, as per usual, is on you Brewer.
StupidCAM, like a lot of CAM programs, can't extract the needed
Hint: Tabulated drawings Jon. There's, no information to extract till
you program the model. In the (real time) videos I made, good G-Code
gets to the machine well before you can boot your modern program, let
alone create a solid model.
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.clear-cut.com/?p=818
"TopSolid’Cam 7 actually uses the information of the solid model on
which you are machining.
See, that's where you keep making your mistake. Tabulated drawings,
which are still the standard for many part family standards today are
NOT solid models they are "tabulated drawings".
So with regards to family of parts similar to those shown in the
video, a 15-20 year old program like SmartCAM can still kick the crap
our of your CAD/CAM-De-Jour. As shown in the videos anyone can
generate and have error free code to the machine tool before you can
even draw a part(s) in your modern CAD/CAM-De-Jour. Now multiply that
by thousands of variations, dash numbers, material types, barstock,
forgings, castings, machines, controllers, tooling etc. and tell me
which is more powerful, robust and cost effective.
Post by jon_banquer
And here’s the best part. Are you ready for it?
You almost never have to chain anything for 2D milling or turning!"
You ALWAYS have to chain Jon, that's how CAD, CAM and CAD/CAM programs
work, you just don't know how it's done.......LOL.
Tom
What part of I don't care about automating programs for simple parts
You are aware the vast majority of work IS repetitive and pretty
simple stuff really. So automating simple stuff produces huge
returns............Mr. Jonnie Donk'ers....answered my own
question......of course you're not aware.
Post by jon_banquer
for simple parts like these that are now made in China don't you understand, Brewer?
What is shown are aerospace parts and are still made right here in
Southern California, by non-banquer types.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-15 03:33:32 UTC
Permalink
What part of I don't care about automating programs for simple parts
like these that are now made in China don't you understand, Brewer?
brewertr
2012-07-15 04:03:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
What part of I don't care about automating programs for simple parts
like these that are now made in China don't you understand, Brewer?
LOL............
jon_banquer
2012-07-14 20:32:43 UTC
Permalink
I figured the kind of simple parts you show in your video were all
made in China now. For more complex parts that are still made in the
USA you can't get throughput if you're wasting time doing needless
Chaining because the CADCAM system is stupid and can't use the
information a solid model contains.
jon_banquer
2012-07-14 16:43:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
Here is a video showing the most current version of SmartCAM which
can't make use of the information a solid model contains and forces
the user to extract wireframe geometry from the solid model:



When it comes to using the information contained in a solid model it
should be called StupidCAM not SmartCAM. Much like you, Brewer
StupidCAM is obsolete in so many ways. Not all but way too many.
jon_banquer
2012-07-14 16:49:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
Here is a video showing the most current version of SmartCAM which
can't make use of the information a solid model contains and forces
http://youtu.be/hMgOauOQBLI
When it comes to using the information contained in a solid model it
should be called StupidCAM not SmartCAM. Much like you, Brewer
StupidCAM is obsolete in so many ways. Not all but way too many.
Question: Why do you have to create so many macros in SmartCAM?

Answer: SmartCAM requires so many steps that you have to find a way to
automate it.
brewertr
2012-07-14 18:41:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
Here is a video showing the most current version of SmartCAM which
can't make use of the information a solid model contains and forces
http://youtu.be/hMgOauOQBLI
When it comes to using the information contained in a solid model it
should be called StupidCAM not SmartCAM. Much like you, Brewer
StupidCAM is obsolete in so many ways. Not all but way too many.
Question: Why do you have to create so many macros in SmartCAM?
Answer: SmartCAM requires so many steps that you have to find a way to
automate it.
What part of tabulated drawings do you NOT understand?

Instead of having to create, control, update and edit THOUSAND(s)
models and machine programs to cover all the tabulated parts,
materials, barstock, casting, forging and machine combinations. About
4 custom macro programs I created cover them all, no legacy programs
to worry about. Programs are deleted after each use and are
regenerated whenever a new part (order) comes to the shop floor. So as
Machines change, tooling improvements are made the only edits needed
are to the macros themselves instead of THOUSANDS OF LEGACY PROGRAMS.

Still no program today that I've seen can do this type work easier,
faster or better.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-14 18:56:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
Here is a video showing the most current version of SmartCAM which
can't make use of the information a solid model contains and forces
http://youtu.be/hMgOauOQBLI
When it comes to using the information contained in a solid model it
should be called StupidCAM not SmartCAM. Much like you, Brewer
StupidCAM is obsolete in so many ways. Not all but way too many.
Question: Why do you have to create so many macros in SmartCAM?
Answer: SmartCAM requires so many steps that you have to find a way to
automate it.
What part of tabulated drawings do you NOT understand?
Instead of having to create, control, update and edit THOUSAND(s)
models and machine programs to cover all the tabulated parts,
materials, barstock, casting, forging and machine combinations. About
4 custom macro programs I created cover them all, no legacy programs
to worry about. Programs are deleted after each use and are
regenerated whenever a new part (order) comes to the shop floor. So as
Machines change, tooling improvements are made the only edits needed
are to the macros themselves instead of THOUSANDS OF LEGACY PROGRAMS.
Still no program today that I've seen can do this type work easier,
faster or better.
Tom
I don't do this type of work, Brewer. This type of work seems to be
the only kind of work you have any knowledge of.
brewertr
2012-07-14 19:28:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
Here is a video showing the most current version of SmartCAM which
can't make use of the information a solid model contains and forces
http://youtu.be/hMgOauOQBLI
When it comes to using the information contained in a solid model it
should be called StupidCAM not SmartCAM. Much like you, Brewer
StupidCAM is obsolete in so many ways. Not all but way too many.
Question: Why do you have to create so many macros in SmartCAM?
Answer: SmartCAM requires so many steps that you have to find a way to
automate it.
What part of tabulated drawings do you NOT understand?
Instead of having to create, control, update and edit THOUSAND(s)
models and machine programs to cover all the tabulated parts,
materials, barstock, casting, forging and machine combinations. About
4 custom macro programs I created cover them all, no legacy programs
to worry about. Programs are deleted after each use and are
regenerated whenever a new part (order) comes to the shop floor. So as
Machines change, tooling improvements are made the only edits needed
are to the macros themselves instead of THOUSANDS OF LEGACY PROGRAMS.
Still no program today that I've seen can do this type work easier,
faster or better.
Tom
I don't do this type of work, Brewer. This type of work seems to be
the only kind of work you have any knowledge of.
Just one of the many types of work performed over the years.

Remember when you were complaining about Fanuc not having G12-G13 like
the clapped out Hass's you ran. Where I said stop complaining and
program them yourself. I even created and sent the custom macro code
to you (not all of it but 99%). Even gave you instructions on how to
link the macros to G12 & G13, a simple edit you never did/could
complete.

LOL,
Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-14 20:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Question: Why do you have to create so many macros in SmartCAM?

Answer: SmartCAM requires so many steps that you have to find a way to
automate it.
jon_banquer
2012-07-14 17:02:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You didn't answer, Brewer. Instead you pulled your usual evasive
bullshit that I easily see through.
You have no blog for a reason... you have absolutely nothing to say.
You don't post to any CADCAM blogs for a reason... you have absolutely
nothing to say.
http://tinyurl.com/7v7vj2w
Post by jon_banquer
You don't have any You Tube videos on CADCAM for a reason... you have
absolutely nothing to show.
http://tinyurl.com/d3jgdk
http://tinyurl.com/bs3kqs
Tom
Here is a video showing the most current version of SmartCAM which
can't make use of the information a solid model contains and forces
http://youtu.be/hMgOauOQBLI
When it comes to using the information contained in a solid model it
should be called StupidCAM not SmartCAM. Much like you, Brewer
StupidCAM is obsolete in so many ways. Not all but way too many.
There are no "User Regions" needed in TopSolid CADCAM 7. Unlike
StupidCAM, TopSolid CADCAM 7 looks at the solid model and analyzes the
solid model topology and adjusts the toolpath to what exists in the
solid model.

StupidCAM doesn't use the information in the solid model and needs
manual user input. This results in more machining operations and tons
of wasted time.

StupidCAM is the ideal product for you, Brewer. StupidCAM makes you
feel like you're actually doing something useful. ;>)
jon_banquer
2012-07-14 20:36:24 UTC
Permalink
There are no "User Regions" needed in TopSolid CADCAM 7. Unlike
StupidCAM, TopSolid CADCAM 7 looks at the solid model and analyzes the
solid model topology and adjusts the toolpath to what exists in the
solid model.

StupidCAM doesn't use the information in the solid model and needs
manual user input. This results in more machining operations and tons
of wasted time.

StupidCAM is the ideal product for you, Brewer. StupidCAM makes you
feel like you're actually doing something useful. ;>)
jon_banquer
2012-07-14 20:35:46 UTC
Permalink
Here is a video showing the most current version of SmartCAM which
can't make use of the information a solid model contains and forces
the user to extract wireframe geometry from the solid model:

http://youtu.be/hMgOauOQBLI

When it comes to using the information contained in a solid model it
should be called StupidCAM not SmartCAM. Much like you, Brewer
StupidCAM is obsolete in so many ways. Not all but way too many.
brewertr
2012-07-19 19:27:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Why are you afraid to agree to a free and even exchange?
Tom
Now I see why, in the (vanity) group you just started you state you've
NEVER used NX.

How exactly did you evaluate NX and come to the conclusion it's "The
BEST CAD/CAM product on the market today?????

Tom
brewertr
2012-07-04 20:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
You're so stupid that you can't comprehend the very basics of fully
http://youtu.be/a5i52Hvp6hw
It locked up and crashed more times in one live demo than my
SolidWorks and CAMWorks has in a year.
Tom
If NX CADCAM was that unstable do you think Ford, GM, Pratt and
Whitney, etc. would use it?
Ever think about that you ignorant, fucking moron?
Siemens/NX should be a good fit for them, where design, engineering
and assembly are the driving forces and CAM is a very, very small
piece of their pie.
Tom
Typical evasive answer from Brewer that attempts to cover up his
massive CADCAM stupidity.
Brewer's bogus answer doesn't address the FACT that NX CACAM is stable
enough to stay in very large companies who depend on it.
All I can go by is what I see first hand, and for me it's not a very
good CAM product. There is nothing there, no killer CAM application to
justify changing programs. What I have now works much the same or
better.
The conglomerates you listed have different priorities. For them with
a thousand seats of CAD for every few seats of CAM the shortcomings in
the CAM module are not significant. For me it's the CAM module that is
the deal maker or breaker.
Tom
How much time have you really spent comparing the feature based
machining in NX CAM to CAMWorks?
Which has more robust feature recognition?
Which has a more powerful toolpath library?
Which program is better for creating and managing stock models?
Which program has a much more robust Feature Manager / Machining
Manager? ... There is no way in hell that SolidWorks/CAMWorks even
comes remotely close to NX CADCAM in this area. NX CADCAM has the most
powerful Operation Navigator of any product I've even seen including
TopSolid CADCAM 7.
Which program requires less boundary creation for surfacing toolpath?
Are we talking video's or real life?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Not unable, I just needed clarification.
Why are you so upset when I don't answer one of your questions
promptly considering more times than not you refuse to answer my
simple direct on topic questions to you?
Post by jon_banquer
Based on the people I've dealt with from Siemens, good videos on NX
CADCAM are far better than many of the people they employ.
Just because you (And Cliff Huprich while he was still breathing)
don't grasp the power of video, doesn't mean that video isn't a great
tool.
Well if it's videos you're talking about then Siemens wins hands down,
their videos are the best.
Tom
Wrong. Almost all of Siemens NX CADCAM videos suck and don't give a
realistic picture. There are some exceptions like what I've linked to
in other threads. I'm *still* waiting for you to answer the questions
I've asked you.
To date you rarely if ever to answer my questions to you, just as you
did here responding to my post.
Does this mean you will answer my questions?
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
I did answer, "I need clarification". I need clarification and a
commitment from you to answer my questions as well.
Tom
Fucktard, just answer the questions. If you haven't done the proper
research admit it and state why you are unable to answers the
questions I asked.
Do you not comprehend the meaning of "Clarification" and/or the
concept of fairness?
Tom
I don't believe for one second that you have any concept of fairness.
What is not fair about my proposal that BOTH of us (equally) ask and
answer questions of each other?
Post by jon_banquer
For many years your posts have proven that you're a scumbag with no
clues who refuses to admit his many mistakes.
Then why Is the self proclaimed "CADCAM Technology Leader" afraid to
engage me in a fair and even discussion?

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-15 03:35:00 UTC
Permalink
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx

"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I, are not finished in 2D sections – they are only started there and
grow up to much bigger problems in 3D history-based models.

As you know, features are created in history-based applications (like
Creo Parametric, SolidWorks, Sloid Edge, Inventor, etc.) one by one in
hierarchic order. Each feature in this hierarchy corresponds to some
sketch and this sketch is driven by the corresponding system of
equations.

The problems of feature-based methodology may be described as problems
of parent/child relationship. If a parent level feature is deleted or
changed in some way, it can cause unexpected effects on child-level
features. As a result after any changes in the top-level features we
are to regenerate all the child features, i.e. to solve all the
systems of equations, corresponding to the 2D sections of these
features. For complicated parts (containing, may be, 1000 features)
this might be a significant amount of time. In extreme cases (and
sometimes in cases that are not particularly that extreme), user might
be forced to recreate the model from scratch.

The drawback of the feature-based (in other words – history based)
design technique, which is founded on regenerating a model from its
history tree, is that, as more features are added, the geometry is
dependent upon more and more features created earlier. This often
leads to problems, if designer decides to do modifications in some
features at the top of the feature hierarchy.

In order to avoid these modification problems, users of a history-
based application have to plan carefully the design, defining ahead of
time which major elements would be dependent upon other elements. But
planning a long hierarchical sequence of features (if the parts to be
designed are complicated enough) might be not an easy task.

On the other hand, non-efficient 2D Solver (that is not able to
resolve really big sketches) leaves to designer no way around but to
create a lot of small features. Very often designers have to divide
parts into numerous “unnatural” features, because the “natural”
features have such a complicated underlying sketches, that 2D Solver
is not able to solve corresponding systems of equations. As a result
this leads to the history tree of the part, which is much more
extended. And the whole design process becomes much trickier.

These observations show that when it comes the time to do some
modifications in the existing feature-based models we are in front of
numerous problems. But interactive modification of the model is the
fundamental aspect in any design activity! Designer is constantly
going forward and backwards, re-elaborating once and again some
particular aspect of the model, or its general layout, or even coming
back to a previous solution that had been temporarily abandoned. With
feature-based CAD these modifications are tricky.

The principal limitation of the parametric feature-based approach is
the lack of simple instruments to modify interactively a model once it
has been created.

As a respond to all these history-based troubles the CAD industry
proposed the history-free approach. In explicit modeling applications
(like Creo Direct (formerly CoCreate), SpaceClaim, KeyCreator,
SketchUp etc.) users have these simple modification instruments for
their convenience.

But adepts of the history-free approach went from one extreme into
another. Throwing away the features history-tree (which is definitely
step in the right direction) they throw away the most brilliant part
of the history-based approach – the parametrics. History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations! So all the
advantages of the parametric approach are lost!

Why it happened? Why parametric modeling and explicit modeling exist
as two separate worlds?

If both parametric feature-based and direct-modeling approaches have
their advantages (and their drawbacks) why not to merge their best
characteristics in one system (and throw away their drawbacks)? Isn’t
it strange that until now nobody managed to implement such a system?"
brewertr
2012-07-15 04:07:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx
"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I, are not finished in 2D sections – they are only started there and
grow up to much bigger problems in 3D history-based models.
As you know, features are created in history-based applications (like
Creo Parametric, SolidWorks, Sloid Edge, Inventor, etc.) one by one in
hierarchic order. Each feature in this hierarchy corresponds to some
sketch and this sketch is driven by the corresponding system of
equations.
The problems of feature-based methodology may be described as problems
of parent/child relationship. If a parent level feature is deleted or
changed in some way, it can cause unexpected effects on child-level
features. As a result after any changes in the top-level features we
are to regenerate all the child features, i.e. to solve all the
systems of equations, corresponding to the 2D sections of these
features. For complicated parts (containing, may be, 1000 features)
this might be a significant amount of time. In extreme cases (and
sometimes in cases that are not particularly that extreme), user might
be forced to recreate the model from scratch.
The drawback of the feature-based (in other words – history based)
design technique, which is founded on regenerating a model from its
history tree, is that, as more features are added, the geometry is
dependent upon more and more features created earlier. This often
leads to problems, if designer decides to do modifications in some
features at the top of the feature hierarchy.
In order to avoid these modification problems, users of a history-
based application have to plan carefully the design, defining ahead of
time which major elements would be dependent upon other elements. But
planning a long hierarchical sequence of features (if the parts to be
designed are complicated enough) might be not an easy task.
On the other hand, non-efficient 2D Solver (that is not able to
resolve really big sketches) leaves to designer no way around but to
create a lot of small features. Very often designers have to divide
parts into numerous “unnatural” features, because the “natural”
features have such a complicated underlying sketches, that 2D Solver
is not able to solve corresponding systems of equations. As a result
this leads to the history tree of the part, which is much more
extended. And the whole design process becomes much trickier.
These observations show that when it comes the time to do some
modifications in the existing feature-based models we are in front of
numerous problems. But interactive modification of the model is the
fundamental aspect in any design activity! Designer is constantly
going forward and backwards, re-elaborating once and again some
particular aspect of the model, or its general layout, or even coming
back to a previous solution that had been temporarily abandoned. With
feature-based CAD these modifications are tricky.
The principal limitation of the parametric feature-based approach is
the lack of simple instruments to modify interactively a model once it
has been created.
As a respond to all these history-based troubles the CAD industry
proposed the history-free approach. In explicit modeling applications
(like Creo Direct (formerly CoCreate), SpaceClaim, KeyCreator,
SketchUp etc.) users have these simple modification instruments for
their convenience.
But adepts of the history-free approach went from one extreme into
another. Throwing away the features history-tree (which is definitely
step in the right direction) they throw away the most brilliant part
of the history-based approach – the parametrics. History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations! So all the
advantages of the parametric approach are lost!
Why it happened? Why parametric modeling and explicit modeling exist
as two separate worlds?
If both parametric feature-based and direct-modeling approaches have
their advantages (and their drawbacks) why not to merge their best
characteristics in one system (and throw away their drawbacks)? Isn’t
it strange that until now nobody managed to implement such a system?"
You riding in the car pool to work makes it a clown car, you by any
chance work for Ringling Bros?
jon_banquer
2012-07-15 04:08:57 UTC
Permalink
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx

"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I, are not finished in 2D sections – they are only started there and
grow up to much bigger problems in 3D history-based models.

As you know, features are created in history-based applications (like
Creo Parametric, SolidWorks, Sloid Edge, Inventor, etc.) one by one in
hierarchic order. Each feature in this hierarchy corresponds to some
sketch and this sketch is driven by the corresponding system of
equations.

The problems of feature-based methodology may be described as problems
of parent/child relationship. If a parent level feature is deleted or
changed in some way, it can cause unexpected effects on child-level
features. As a result after any changes in the top-level features we
are to regenerate all the child features, i.e. to solve all the
systems of equations, corresponding to the 2D sections of these
features. For complicated parts (containing, may be, 1000 features)
this might be a significant amount of time. In extreme cases (and
sometimes in cases that are not particularly that extreme), user might
be forced to recreate the model from scratch.

The drawback of the feature-based (in other words – history based)
design technique, which is founded on regenerating a model from its
history tree, is that, as more features are added, the geometry is
dependent upon more and more features created earlier. This often
leads to problems, if designer decides to do modifications in some
features at the top of the feature hierarchy.

In order to avoid these modification problems, users of a history-
based application have to plan carefully the design, defining ahead of
time which major elements would be dependent upon other elements. But
planning a long hierarchical sequence of features (if the parts to be
designed are complicated enough) might be not an easy task.

On the other hand, non-efficient 2D Solver (that is not able to
resolve really big sketches) leaves to designer no way around but to
create a lot of small features. Very often designers have to divide
parts into numerous “unnatural” features, because the “natural”
features have such a complicated underlying sketches, that 2D Solver
is not able to solve corresponding systems of equations. As a result
this leads to the history tree of the part, which is much more
extended. And the whole design process becomes much trickier.

These observations show that when it comes the time to do some
modifications in the existing feature-based models we are in front of
numerous problems. But interactive modification of the model is the
fundamental aspect in any design activity! Designer is constantly
going forward and backwards, re-elaborating once and again some
particular aspect of the model, or its general layout, or even coming
back to a previous solution that had been temporarily abandoned. With
feature-based CAD these modifications are tricky.

The principal limitation of the parametric feature-based approach is
the lack of simple instruments to modify interactively a model once it
has been created.

As a respond to all these history-based troubles the CAD industry
proposed the history-free approach. In explicit modeling applications
(like Creo Direct (formerly CoCreate), SpaceClaim, KeyCreator,
SketchUp etc.) users have these simple modification instruments for
their convenience.

But adepts of the history-free approach went from one extreme into
another. Throwing away the features history-tree (which is definitely
step in the right direction) they throw away the most brilliant part
of the history-based approach – the parametrics. History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations! So all the
advantages of the parametric approach are lost!

Why it happened? Why parametric modeling and explicit modeling exist
as two separate worlds?

If both parametric feature-based and direct-modeling approaches have
their advantages (and their drawbacks) why not to merge their best
characteristics in one system (and throw away their drawbacks)? Isn’t
it strange that until now nobody managed to implement such a system?"
brewertr
2012-07-15 05:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx
"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I, are not finished in 2D sections – they are only started there and
grow up to much bigger problems in 3D history-based models.
As you know, features are created in history-based applications (like
Creo Parametric, SolidWorks, Sloid Edge, Inventor, etc.) one by one in
hierarchic order. Each feature in this hierarchy corresponds to some
sketch and this sketch is driven by the corresponding system of
equations.
The problems of feature-based methodology may be described as problems
of parent/child relationship. If a parent level feature is deleted or
changed in some way, it can cause unexpected effects on child-level
features. As a result after any changes in the top-level features we
are to regenerate all the child features, i.e. to solve all the
systems of equations, corresponding to the 2D sections of these
features. For complicated parts (containing, may be, 1000 features)
this might be a significant amount of time. In extreme cases (and
sometimes in cases that are not particularly that extreme), user might
be forced to recreate the model from scratch.
The drawback of the feature-based (in other words – history based)
design technique, which is founded on regenerating a model from its
history tree, is that, as more features are added, the geometry is
dependent upon more and more features created earlier. This often
leads to problems, if designer decides to do modifications in some
features at the top of the feature hierarchy.
In order to avoid these modification problems, users of a history-
based application have to plan carefully the design, defining ahead of
time which major elements would be dependent upon other elements. But
planning a long hierarchical sequence of features (if the parts to be
designed are complicated enough) might be not an easy task.
On the other hand, non-efficient 2D Solver (that is not able to
resolve really big sketches) leaves to designer no way around but to
create a lot of small features. Very often designers have to divide
parts into numerous “unnatural” features, because the “natural”
features have such a complicated underlying sketches, that 2D Solver
is not able to solve corresponding systems of equations. As a result
this leads to the history tree of the part, which is much more
extended. And the whole design process becomes much trickier.
These observations show that when it comes the time to do some
modifications in the existing feature-based models we are in front of
numerous problems. But interactive modification of the model is the
fundamental aspect in any design activity! Designer is constantly
going forward and backwards, re-elaborating once and again some
particular aspect of the model, or its general layout, or even coming
back to a previous solution that had been temporarily abandoned. With
feature-based CAD these modifications are tricky.
The principal limitation of the parametric feature-based approach is
the lack of simple instruments to modify interactively a model once it
has been created.
As a respond to all these history-based troubles the CAD industry
proposed the history-free approach. In explicit modeling applications
(like Creo Direct (formerly CoCreate), SpaceClaim, KeyCreator,
SketchUp etc.) users have these simple modification instruments for
their convenience.
But adepts of the history-free approach went from one extreme into
another. Throwing away the features history-tree (which is definitely
step in the right direction) they throw away the most brilliant part
of the history-based approach – the parametrics. History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations! So all the
advantages of the parametric approach are lost!
Why it happened? Why parametric modeling and explicit modeling exist
as two separate worlds?
If both parametric feature-based and direct-modeling approaches have
their advantages (and their drawbacks) why not to merge their best
characteristics in one system (and throw away their drawbacks)? Isn’t
it strange that until now nobody managed to implement such a system?"
So program a part using their CAD/CAM package and post the video here!

Tom
brewertr
2012-07-15 05:21:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewertr
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx
"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I, are not finished in 2D sections – they are only started there and
grow up to much bigger problems in 3D history-based models.
As you know, features are created in history-based applications (like
Creo Parametric, SolidWorks, Sloid Edge, Inventor, etc.) one by one in
hierarchic order. Each feature in this hierarchy corresponds to some
sketch and this sketch is driven by the corresponding system of
equations.
The problems of feature-based methodology may be described as problems
of parent/child relationship. If a parent level feature is deleted or
changed in some way, it can cause unexpected effects on child-level
features. As a result after any changes in the top-level features we
are to regenerate all the child features, i.e. to solve all the
systems of equations, corresponding to the 2D sections of these
features. For complicated parts (containing, may be, 1000 features)
this might be a significant amount of time. In extreme cases (and
sometimes in cases that are not particularly that extreme), user might
be forced to recreate the model from scratch.
The drawback of the feature-based (in other words – history based)
design technique, which is founded on regenerating a model from its
history tree, is that, as more features are added, the geometry is
dependent upon more and more features created earlier. This often
leads to problems, if designer decides to do modifications in some
features at the top of the feature hierarchy.
In order to avoid these modification problems, users of a history-
based application have to plan carefully the design, defining ahead of
time which major elements would be dependent upon other elements. But
planning a long hierarchical sequence of features (if the parts to be
designed are complicated enough) might be not an easy task.
On the other hand, non-efficient 2D Solver (that is not able to
resolve really big sketches) leaves to designer no way around but to
create a lot of small features. Very often designers have to divide
parts into numerous “unnatural” features, because the “natural”
features have such a complicated underlying sketches, that 2D Solver
is not able to solve corresponding systems of equations. As a result
this leads to the history tree of the part, which is much more
extended. And the whole design process becomes much trickier.
These observations show that when it comes the time to do some
modifications in the existing feature-based models we are in front of
numerous problems. But interactive modification of the model is the
fundamental aspect in any design activity! Designer is constantly
going forward and backwards, re-elaborating once and again some
particular aspect of the model, or its general layout, or even coming
back to a previous solution that had been temporarily abandoned. With
feature-based CAD these modifications are tricky.
The principal limitation of the parametric feature-based approach is
the lack of simple instruments to modify interactively a model once it
has been created.
As a respond to all these history-based troubles the CAD industry
proposed the history-free approach. In explicit modeling applications
(like Creo Direct (formerly CoCreate), SpaceClaim, KeyCreator,
SketchUp etc.) users have these simple modification instruments for
their convenience.
But adepts of the history-free approach went from one extreme into
another. Throwing away the features history-tree (which is definitely
step in the right direction) they throw away the most brilliant part
of the history-based approach – the parametrics. History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations! So all the
advantages of the parametric approach are lost!
Why it happened? Why parametric modeling and explicit modeling exist
as two separate worlds?
If both parametric feature-based and direct-modeling approaches have
their advantages (and their drawbacks) why not to merge their best
characteristics in one system (and throw away their drawbacks)? Isn’t
it strange that until now nobody managed to implement such a system?"
So program a part using their CAD/CAM package and post the video here!
Tom
Still waiting................
jon_banquer
2012-07-15 05:56:46 UTC
Permalink
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx

"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I, are not finished in 2D sections – they are only started there and
grow up to much bigger problems in 3D history-based models.

As you know, features are created in history-based applications (like
Creo Parametric, SolidWorks, Sloid Edge, Inventor, etc.) one by one in
hierarchic order. Each feature in this hierarchy corresponds to some
sketch and this sketch is driven by the corresponding system of
equations.

The problems of feature-based methodology may be described as problems
of parent/child relationship. If a parent level feature is deleted or
changed in some way, it can cause unexpected effects on child-level
features. As a result after any changes in the top-level features we
are to regenerate all the child features, i.e. to solve all the
systems of equations, corresponding to the 2D sections of these
features. For complicated parts (containing, may be, 1000 features)
this might be a significant amount of time. In extreme cases (and
sometimes in cases that are not particularly that extreme), user might
be forced to recreate the model from scratch.

The drawback of the feature-based (in other words – history based)
design technique, which is founded on regenerating a model from its
history tree, is that, as more features are added, the geometry is
dependent upon more and more features created earlier. This often
leads to problems, if designer decides to do modifications in some
features at the top of the feature hierarchy.

In order to avoid these modification problems, users of a history-
based application have to plan carefully the design, defining ahead of
time which major elements would be dependent upon other elements. But
planning a long hierarchical sequence of features (if the parts to be
designed are complicated enough) might be not an easy task.

On the other hand, non-efficient 2D Solver (that is not able to
resolve really big sketches) leaves to designer no way around but to
create a lot of small features. Very often designers have to divide
parts into numerous “unnatural” features, because the “natural”
features have such a complicated underlying sketches, that 2D Solver
is not able to solve corresponding systems of equations. As a result
this leads to the history tree of the part, which is much more
extended. And the whole design process becomes much trickier.

These observations show that when it comes the time to do some
modifications in the existing feature-based models we are in front of
numerous problems. But interactive modification of the model is the
fundamental aspect in any design activity! Designer is constantly
going forward and backwards, re-elaborating once and again some
particular aspect of the model, or its general layout, or even coming
back to a previous solution that had been temporarily abandoned. With
feature-based CAD these modifications are tricky.

The principal limitation of the parametric feature-based approach is
the lack of simple instruments to modify interactively a model once it
has been created.

As a respond to all these history-based troubles the CAD industry
proposed the history-free approach. In explicit modeling applications
(like Creo Direct (formerly CoCreate), SpaceClaim, KeyCreator,
SketchUp etc.) users have these simple modification instruments for
their convenience.

But adepts of the history-free approach went from one extreme into
another. Throwing away the features history-tree (which is definitely
step in the right direction) they throw away the most brilliant part
of the history-based approach – the parametrics. History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations! So all the
advantages of the parametric approach are lost!

Why it happened? Why parametric modeling and explicit modeling exist
as two separate worlds?

If both parametric feature-based and direct-modeling approaches have
their advantages (and their drawbacks) why not to merge their best
characteristics in one system (and throw away their drawbacks)? Isn’t
it strange that until now nobody managed to implement such a system?"
brewertr
2012-07-15 06:04:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx
"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I, are not finished in 2D sections – they are only started there and
grow up to much bigger problems in 3D history-based models.
As you know, features are created in history-based applications (like
Creo Parametric, SolidWorks, Sloid Edge, Inventor, etc.) one by one in
hierarchic order. Each feature in this hierarchy corresponds to some
sketch and this sketch is driven by the corresponding system of
equations.
The problems of feature-based methodology may be described as problems
of parent/child relationship. If a parent level feature is deleted or
changed in some way, it can cause unexpected effects on child-level
features. As a result after any changes in the top-level features we
are to regenerate all the child features, i.e. to solve all the
systems of equations, corresponding to the 2D sections of these
features. For complicated parts (containing, may be, 1000 features)
this might be a significant amount of time. In extreme cases (and
sometimes in cases that are not particularly that extreme), user might
be forced to recreate the model from scratch.
The drawback of the feature-based (in other words – history based)
design technique, which is founded on regenerating a model from its
history tree, is that, as more features are added, the geometry is
dependent upon more and more features created earlier. This often
leads to problems, if designer decides to do modifications in some
features at the top of the feature hierarchy.
In order to avoid these modification problems, users of a history-
based application have to plan carefully the design, defining ahead of
time which major elements would be dependent upon other elements. But
planning a long hierarchical sequence of features (if the parts to be
designed are complicated enough) might be not an easy task.
On the other hand, non-efficient 2D Solver (that is not able to
resolve really big sketches) leaves to designer no way around but to
create a lot of small features. Very often designers have to divide
parts into numerous “unnatural” features, because the “natural”
features have such a complicated underlying sketches, that 2D Solver
is not able to solve corresponding systems of equations. As a result
this leads to the history tree of the part, which is much more
extended. And the whole design process becomes much trickier.
These observations show that when it comes the time to do some
modifications in the existing feature-based models we are in front of
numerous problems. But interactive modification of the model is the
fundamental aspect in any design activity! Designer is constantly
going forward and backwards, re-elaborating once and again some
particular aspect of the model, or its general layout, or even coming
back to a previous solution that had been temporarily abandoned. With
feature-based CAD these modifications are tricky.
The principal limitation of the parametric feature-based approach is
the lack of simple instruments to modify interactively a model once it
has been created.
As a respond to all these history-based troubles the CAD industry
proposed the history-free approach. In explicit modeling applications
(like Creo Direct (formerly CoCreate), SpaceClaim, KeyCreator,
SketchUp etc.) users have these simple modification instruments for
their convenience.
But adepts of the history-free approach went from one extreme into
another. Throwing away the features history-tree (which is definitely
step in the right direction) they throw away the most brilliant part
of the history-based approach – the parametrics. History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations! So all the
advantages of the parametric approach are lost!
Why it happened? Why parametric modeling and explicit modeling exist
as two separate worlds?
If both parametric feature-based and direct-modeling approaches have
their advantages (and their drawbacks) why not to merge their best
characteristics in one system (and throw away their drawbacks)? Isn’t
it strange that until now nobody managed to implement such a system?"
So when can we expect you to program a part using their CAD/CAM
package and post the video here!

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-15 09:44:31 UTC
Permalink
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx

"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I, are not finished in 2D sections – they are only started there and
grow up to much bigger problems in 3D history-based models.

As you know, features are created in history-based applications (like
Creo Parametric, SolidWorks, Sloid Edge, Inventor, etc.) one by one in
hierarchic order. Each feature in this hierarchy corresponds to some
sketch and this sketch is driven by the corresponding system of
equations.

The problems of feature-based methodology may be described as problems
of parent/child relationship. If a parent level feature is deleted or
changed in some way, it can cause unexpected effects on child-level
features. As a result after any changes in the top-level features we
are to regenerate all the child features, i.e. to solve all the
systems of equations, corresponding to the 2D sections of these
features. For complicated parts (containing, may be, 1000 features)
this might be a significant amount of time. In extreme cases (and
sometimes in cases that are not particularly that extreme), user might
be forced to recreate the model from scratch.

The drawback of the feature-based (in other words – history based)
design technique, which is founded on regenerating a model from its
history tree, is that, as more features are added, the geometry is
dependent upon more and more features created earlier. This often
leads to problems, if designer decides to do modifications in some
features at the top of the feature hierarchy.

In order to avoid these modification problems, users of a history-
based application have to plan carefully the design, defining ahead of
time which major elements would be dependent upon other elements. But
planning a long hierarchical sequence of features (if the parts to be
designed are complicated enough) might be not an easy task.

On the other hand, non-efficient 2D Solver (that is not able to
resolve really big sketches) leaves to designer no way around but to
create a lot of small features. Very often designers have to divide
parts into numerous “unnatural” features, because the “natural”
features have such a complicated underlying sketches, that 2D Solver
is not able to solve corresponding systems of equations. As a result
this leads to the history tree of the part, which is much more
extended. And the whole design process becomes much trickier.

These observations show that when it comes the time to do some
modifications in the existing feature-based models we are in front of
numerous problems. But interactive modification of the model is the
fundamental aspect in any design activity! Designer is constantly
going forward and backwards, re-elaborating once and again some
particular aspect of the model, or its general layout, or even coming
back to a previous solution that had been temporarily abandoned. With
feature-based CAD these modifications are tricky.

The principal limitation of the parametric feature-based approach is
the lack of simple instruments to modify interactively a model once it
has been created.

As a respond to all these history-based troubles the CAD industry
proposed the history-free approach. In explicit modeling applications
(like Creo Direct (formerly CoCreate), SpaceClaim, KeyCreator,
SketchUp etc.) users have these simple modification instruments for
their convenience.

But adepts of the history-free approach went from one extreme into
another. Throwing away the features history-tree (which is definitely
step in the right direction) they throw away the most brilliant part
of the history-based approach – the parametrics. History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations! So all the
advantages of the parametric approach are lost!

Why it happened? Why parametric modeling and explicit modeling exist
as two separate worlds?

If both parametric feature-based and direct-modeling approaches have
their advantages (and their drawbacks) why not to merge their best
characteristics in one system (and throw away their drawbacks)? Isn’t
it strange that until now nobody managed to implement such a system?"
vinny
2012-07-15 12:52:54 UTC
Permalink
"jon_banquer" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:41471d3b-e37d-44d8-91f3-***@km7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx

"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I, are not finished in 2D sections – they are only started there and
grow up to much bigger problems in 3D history-based models.

As you know, features are created in history-based applications (like
Creo Parametric, SolidWorks, Sloid Edge, Inventor, etc.) one by one in
hierarchic order. Each feature in this hierarchy corresponds to some
sketch and this sketch is driven by the corresponding system of
equations.

The problems of feature-based methodology may be described as problems
of parent/child relationship. If a parent level feature is deleted or
changed in some way, it can cause unexpected effects on child-level
features. As a result after any changes in the top-level features we
are to regenerate all the child features, i.e. to solve all the
systems of equations, corresponding to the 2D sections of these
features. For complicated parts (containing, may be, 1000 features)
this might be a significant amount of time. In extreme cases (and
sometimes in cases that are not particularly that extreme), user might
be forced to recreate the model from scratch.

The drawback of the feature-based (in other words – history based)
design technique, which is founded on regenerating a model from its
history tree, is that, as more features are added, the geometry is
dependent upon more and more features created earlier. This often
leads to problems, if designer decides to do modifications in some
features at the top of the feature hierarchy.

In order to avoid these modification problems, users of a history-
based application have to plan carefully the design, defining ahead of
time which major elements would be dependent upon other elements. But
planning a long hierarchical sequence of features (if the parts to be
designed are complicated enough) might be not an easy task.

On the other hand, non-efficient 2D Solver (that is not able to
resolve really big sketches) leaves to designer no way around but to
create a lot of small features. Very often designers have to divide
parts into numerous “unnatural” features, because the “natural”
features have such a complicated underlying sketches, that 2D Solver
is not able to solve corresponding systems of equations. As a result
this leads to the history tree of the part, which is much more
extended. And the whole design process becomes much trickier.

These observations show that when it comes the time to do some
modifications in the existing feature-based models we are in front of
numerous problems. But interactive modification of the model is the
fundamental aspect in any design activity! Designer is constantly
going forward and backwards, re-elaborating once and again some
particular aspect of the model, or its general layout, or even coming
back to a previous solution that had been temporarily abandoned. With
feature-based CAD these modifications are tricky.

The principal limitation of the parametric feature-based approach is
the lack of simple instruments to modify interactively a model once it
has been created.

As a respond to all these history-based troubles the CAD industry
proposed the history-free approach. In explicit modeling applications
(like Creo Direct (formerly CoCreate), SpaceClaim, KeyCreator,
SketchUp etc.) users have these simple modification instruments for
their convenience.

But adepts of the history-free approach went from one extreme into
another. Throwing away the features history-tree (which is definitely
step in the right direction) they throw away the most brilliant part
of the history-based approach – the parametrics. History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations! So all the
advantages of the parametric approach are lost!

Why it happened? Why parametric modeling and explicit modeling exist
as two separate worlds?

If both parametric feature-based and direct-modeling approaches have
their advantages (and their drawbacks) why not to merge their best
characteristics in one system (and throw away their drawbacks)? Isn’t
it strange that until now nobody managed to implement such a system?"

********
When I was running nx every damn time i opened a design file it was marked
dirty.
The damn designers when done designing would go back and make stupid
changes,
little things that effect the design in no way, but I was working on the
thing by then.
THAT SUCKED!
But it wasn't the modeler, it was the designer procedures that fell short.

That history based stuff is totally awesome when designing a plastic part
from crap written on a napkin.
It becomes a tool that helps you fill in the blanks, make changes that
effect everything if done smartly.
The problem starts when the model goes down the line.
We would get a model from a customer, then designers would build a mold
around it, then we would cut it.
If people are going to use history modelers down the line they need to
follow rules. As in not making changes after the
thing has been released (not usually possible).

I think the history based modeler is perfect for designing from scratch,
idea to model. It's what it was designed to do, and
to an experienced modeler it is as good as it gets. That history is awesome
when used for the right purpose.
However, when it comes down the pike, Id like to see a dumb model with
direct modeling capabilities.
To pass on a history based model to other people is silly. Nobody knows
their design intent, or cares.
jon_banquer
2012-07-15 17:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I, are not finished in 2D sections – they are only started there and
grow up to much bigger problems in 3D history-based models.
As you know, features are created in history-based applications (like
Creo Parametric, SolidWorks, Sloid Edge, Inventor, etc.) one by one in
hierarchic order. Each feature in this hierarchy corresponds to some
sketch and this sketch is driven by the corresponding system of
equations.
The problems of feature-based methodology may be described as problems
of parent/child relationship. If a parent level feature is deleted or
changed in some way, it can cause unexpected effects on child-level
features. As a result after any changes in the top-level features we
are to regenerate all the child features, i.e. to solve all the
systems of equations, corresponding to the 2D sections of these
features. For complicated parts (containing, may be, 1000 features)
this might be a significant amount of time. In extreme cases (and
sometimes in cases that are not particularly that extreme), user might
be forced to recreate the model from scratch.
The drawback of the feature-based (in other words – history based)
design technique, which is founded on regenerating a model from its
history tree, is that, as more features are added, the geometry is
dependent upon more and more features created earlier. This often
leads to problems, if designer decides to do modifications in some
features at the top of the feature hierarchy.
In order to avoid these modification problems, users of a history-
based application have to plan carefully the design, defining ahead of
time which major elements would be dependent upon other elements. But
planning a long hierarchical sequence of features (if the parts to be
designed are complicated enough) might be not an easy task.
On the other hand, non-efficient 2D Solver (that is not able to
resolve really big sketches) leaves to designer no way around but to
create a lot of small features. Very often designers have to divide
parts into numerous “unnatural” features, because the “natural”
features have such a complicated underlying sketches, that 2D Solver
is not able to solve corresponding systems of equations. As a result
this leads to the history tree of the part, which is much more
extended. And the whole design process becomes much trickier.
These observations show that when it comes the time to do some
modifications in the existing feature-based models we are in front of
numerous problems. But interactive modification of the model is the
fundamental aspect in any design activity! Designer is constantly
going forward and backwards, re-elaborating once and again some
particular aspect of the model, or its general layout, or even coming
back to a previous solution that had been temporarily abandoned. With
feature-based CAD these modifications are tricky.
The principal limitation of the parametric feature-based approach is
the lack of simple instruments to modify interactively a model once it
has been created.
As a respond to all these history-based troubles the CAD industry
proposed the history-free approach. In explicit modeling applications
(like Creo Direct (formerly CoCreate), SpaceClaim, KeyCreator,
SketchUp etc.) users have these simple modification instruments for
their convenience.
But adepts of the history-free approach went from one extreme into
another. Throwing away the features history-tree (which is definitely
step in the right direction) they throw away the most brilliant part
of the history-based approach – the parametrics. History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations! So all the
advantages of the parametric approach are lost!
Why it happened? Why parametric modeling and explicit modeling exist
as two separate worlds?
If both parametric feature-based and direct-modeling approaches have
their advantages (and their drawbacks) why not to merge their best
characteristics in one system (and throw away their drawbacks)? Isn’t
it strange that until now nobody managed to implement such a system?"
********
When I was running nx every damn time i opened a design file it was marked
dirty.
The damn designers when done designing would go back and make stupid
changes,
little things that effect the design in no way, but I was working on the
thing by then.
THAT SUCKED!
 But it wasn't the modeler, it was the designer procedures that fell short.
That history based stuff is totally awesome when designing a plastic part
from crap written on a napkin.
It becomes a tool that helps you fill in the blanks, make changes that
effect everything if done smartly.
The problem starts when the model goes down the line.
We would get a model from a customer, then designers would build a mold
around it, then we would cut it.
If people are going to use history modelers down the line they need to
follow rules. As in not making changes after the
thing has been released (not usually possible).
I think the history based modeler is perfect for designing from scratch,
idea to model. It's what it was designed to do, and
to an experienced modeler it is as good as it gets. That history is awesome
when used for the right purpose.
However, when it comes down the pike, Id like to see a dumb model with
direct modeling capabilities.
To pass on a history based model to other people is silly. Nobody knows
their design intent, or cares.
You sometimes display the kind of insight someone like Brewer just
isn't capable of.
brewertr
2012-07-15 20:39:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
You sometimes display the kind of insight someone like Brewer just
isn't capable of.
Just because Jon Banquer believes ten birds in the hand are worth one
in the bush doesn't mean everyone need jump on the bandwagon before
it's fully assembled and tested.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-15 20:58:55 UTC
Permalink
You sometimes display the kind of insight someone like Brewer just
isn't capable of.
brewertr
2012-07-16 01:46:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
You sometimes display the kind of insight someone like Brewer just
isn't capable of.
Jon "CAD/CAM Clown" Banquer displays the kind of insight where ten
birds in the hand are worth one in the bush.

Tom
jon_banquer
2012-07-16 01:57:17 UTC
Permalink
You sometimes display the kind of insight someone like Brewer just
isn't capable of.
jon_banquer
2012-07-19 23:33:41 UTC
Permalink
You sometimes display the kind of insight someone like Brewer just
isn't capable of.
brewertr
2012-07-20 16:19:02 UTC
Permalink
Jon Banquer posing as "CADCAM Technology Leader" judging CAD/CAM
programs same as Stevie Wonder judging a photo contest.

Tom

jon_banquer
2012-07-19 19:39:13 UTC
Permalink
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx

"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I, are not finished in 2D sections – they are only started there and
grow up to much bigger problems in 3D history-based models.

As you know, features are created in history-based applications (like
Creo Parametric, SolidWorks, Sloid Edge, Inventor, etc.) one by one in
hierarchic order. Each feature in this hierarchy corresponds to some
sketch and this sketch is driven by the corresponding system of
equations.

The problems of feature-based methodology may be described as problems
of parent/child relationship. If a parent level feature is deleted or
changed in some way, it can cause unexpected effects on child-level
features. As a result after any changes in the top-level features we
are to regenerate all the child features, i.e. to solve all the
systems of equations, corresponding to the 2D sections of these
features. For complicated parts (containing, may be, 1000 features)
this might be a significant amount of time. In extreme cases (and
sometimes in cases that are not particularly that extreme), user might
be forced to recreate the model from scratch.

The drawback of the feature-based (in other words – history based)
design technique, which is founded on regenerating a model from its
history tree, is that, as more features are added, the geometry is
dependent upon more and more features created earlier. This often
leads to problems, if designer decides to do modifications in some
features at the top of the feature hierarchy.

In order to avoid these modification problems, users of a history-
based application have to plan carefully the design, defining ahead of
time which major elements would be dependent upon other elements. But
planning a long hierarchical sequence of features (if the parts to be
designed are complicated enough) might be not an easy task.

On the other hand, non-efficient 2D Solver (that is not able to
resolve really big sketches) leaves to designer no way around but to
create a lot of small features. Very often designers have to divide
parts into numerous “unnatural” features, because the “natural”
features have such a complicated underlying sketches, that 2D Solver
is not able to solve corresponding systems of equations. As a result
this leads to the history tree of the part, which is much more
extended. And the whole design process becomes much trickier.

These observations show that when it comes the time to do some
modifications in the existing feature-based models we are in front of
numerous problems. But interactive modification of the model is the
fundamental aspect in any design activity! Designer is constantly
going forward and backwards, re-elaborating once and again some
particular aspect of the model, or its general layout, or even coming
back to a previous solution that had been temporarily abandoned. With
feature-based CAD these modifications are tricky.

The principal limitation of the parametric feature-based approach is
the lack of simple instruments to modify interactively a model once it
has been created.

As a respond to all these history-based troubles the CAD industry
proposed the history-free approach. In explicit modeling applications
(like Creo Direct (formerly CoCreate), SpaceClaim, KeyCreator,
SketchUp etc.) users have these simple modification instruments for
their convenience.

But adepts of the history-free approach went from one extreme into
another. Throwing away the features history-tree (which is definitely
step in the right direction) they throw away the most brilliant part
of the history-based approach – the parametrics. History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations! So all the
advantages of the parametric approach are lost!

Why it happened? Why parametric modeling and explicit modeling exist
as two separate worlds?

If both parametric feature-based and direct-modeling approaches have
their advantages (and their drawbacks) why not to merge their best
characteristics in one system (and throw away their drawbacks)? Isn’t
it strange that until now nobody managed to implement such a system?"
brewertr
2012-07-19 23:27:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.cloud-invent.com/Parametric-CAD/Bottleneck2.aspx
"The troubles of parametric feature-based approach, described in Part
I, are not finished in 2D sections – they are only started there and
grow up to much bigger problems in 3D history-based models.
As you know, features are created in history-based applications (like
Creo Parametric, SolidWorks, Sloid Edge, Inventor, etc.) one by one in
hierarchic order. Each feature in this hierarchy corresponds to some
sketch and this sketch is driven by the corresponding system of
equations.
The problems of feature-based methodology may be described as problems
of parent/child relationship. If a parent level feature is deleted or
changed in some way, it can cause unexpected effects on child-level
features. As a result after any changes in the top-level features we
are to regenerate all the child features, i.e. to solve all the
systems of equations, corresponding to the 2D sections of these
features. For complicated parts (containing, may be, 1000 features)
this might be a significant amount of time. In extreme cases (and
sometimes in cases that are not particularly that extreme), user might
be forced to recreate the model from scratch.
The drawback of the feature-based (in other words – history based)
design technique, which is founded on regenerating a model from its
history tree, is that, as more features are added, the geometry is
dependent upon more and more features created earlier. This often
leads to problems, if designer decides to do modifications in some
features at the top of the feature hierarchy.
In order to avoid these modification problems, users of a history-
based application have to plan carefully the design, defining ahead of
time which major elements would be dependent upon other elements. But
planning a long hierarchical sequence of features (if the parts to be
designed are complicated enough) might be not an easy task.
On the other hand, non-efficient 2D Solver (that is not able to
resolve really big sketches) leaves to designer no way around but to
create a lot of small features. Very often designers have to divide
parts into numerous “unnatural” features, because the “natural”
features have such a complicated underlying sketches, that 2D Solver
is not able to solve corresponding systems of equations. As a result
this leads to the history tree of the part, which is much more
extended. And the whole design process becomes much trickier.
These observations show that when it comes the time to do some
modifications in the existing feature-based models we are in front of
numerous problems. But interactive modification of the model is the
fundamental aspect in any design activity! Designer is constantly
going forward and backwards, re-elaborating once and again some
particular aspect of the model, or its general layout, or even coming
back to a previous solution that had been temporarily abandoned. With
feature-based CAD these modifications are tricky.
The principal limitation of the parametric feature-based approach is
the lack of simple instruments to modify interactively a model once it
has been created.
As a respond to all these history-based troubles the CAD industry
proposed the history-free approach. In explicit modeling applications
(like Creo Direct (formerly CoCreate), SpaceClaim, KeyCreator,
SketchUp etc.) users have these simple modification instruments for
their convenience.
But adepts of the history-free approach went from one extreme into
another. Throwing away the features history-tree (which is definitely
step in the right direction) they throw away the most brilliant part
of the history-based approach – the parametrics. History-free models
are no more driven by the constrains systems of equations! So all the
advantages of the parametric approach are lost!
Why it happened? Why parametric modeling and explicit modeling exist
as two separate worlds?
If both parametric feature-based and direct-modeling approaches have
their advantages (and their drawbacks) why not to merge their best
characteristics in one system (and throw away their drawbacks)? Isn’t
it strange that until now nobody managed to implement such a system?"
Not much of a stretch for you Jon where you start by boasting about a
program you've never used and now to a product that doesn't even
exist.

How many bandwagons do you have to jump on before they let you drive?

Tom
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