When to give up on the 4x6 horz'l bandsaw?

[Existential Angst]

Awl --

How do you know when to junk it, and just get another one?

I've had two main problems: Blade tracking (jumping off the wheels), and
wildly non-vertical cuts.

Now, I know the blade tracking can be adjusted by a kind of camber screw on
the top wheel, and that the blade guides can be rotated for cut
perpendicularity, but neither of these seem to be helping.

The blade wheels don't seem to be worn, altho I'm not sure if the blade
surface of those wheels is supposed to be exactly parallel to the rotation
axis, or have a slight rake toward the back flange, to help keep the blade
on the wheel.
Would it be useful to put a rake on this face, on the lathe?

Next, how much play in the blade guide bearings is acceptable? The ones I
replaced had very little play, but replacing them seemed to solve the
problem.

Now, the perspicacious amongst 4x6 owners will be asking:
Wtf did MOI get replacement parts from ????

Ahhhh, li'l Grasshoppers......
My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts, so that I could in fact make complete saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.

If you want a nice stand, spend $50 on one of them wheeled/shelved wire
carts from Sams/Costco.... good rolling cart, with good storage. I
actually have TWO 4x6's mounted side by side on one of these carts, one for
alum, one for steel -- vastly reduced belt/blade changing, you really get
spoiled by this, AND your blades last a lot longer.

But, the Q remains: If one does not have that type of parts bonanza (which
moi no longer has), just how DO you get parts??
You can find all kinds of help/tips for these saws, but no real parts
source. Which suggests that this is, essentially, a throw-away tool, after
a while.
I wonder how many sep. factories there are for this tool, in Taiwan/China,
because some saws seem to be made a bit better than others. Is there a
known outlet for the better saws?? I can't imagine it would be
effingHF.....

I essentially gave up on these saws, let them sit for about 2 years, since I
do little steel cutting these days, and discovered the RAS for aluminum,
even 3" bar.
But, the RAS can requires some testosterone (and boucou ear plugs), and I'm
running low on the former. Plus, tough to use the RAS at 3 a.m.....

But on a massive cleanup of the shop, I decided to take care of bidness, but
still, the problems were curious in their intractability, and I don't know
if brute-force parts replacement was the best solution, altho it appears to
be A solution.

I like the tip about an oil drip, for the blade. I made a pretty
sophisticated (well, at least for THIS saw) recirculating coolant
system/stand, which eventually got stolen (a left handed compliment, if
there ever was one), but realize that the oil drip idear may be a lot more
practical. Inyone done this?

Idears, experiences, war stories on repairs??

[Jon Danniken]

Post by Existential Angst
My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts, so that I could in fact make complete saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.

Got a gear shaft (the one between the lower pulley wheel and the brass
worm gear) you want to get rid of? Mine snapped just past the bearings.

Jon

[Existential Angst]

Post by Jon Danniken

Post by Existential Angst
My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts, so that I could in fact make complete saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.

Got a gear shaft (the one between the lower pulley wheel and the brass
worm gear) you want to get rid of? Mine snapped just past the bearings.

The worm gear/shaft attaches to the stepped belt pulley. That can't be
removed, at least not by me -- wonder how they got that in there, cuz the
worm gear is not pinned to the shaft. I don't think that worm gear is
brass.

The shaft for the blade pulley connects to a "regular" brass gear. I got a
cupla of those (shaft+brass gear) in varying conditions. Those can be
pounded out, altho in pounding them back in, not sure how that will affect
seals, etc.

[jon_banquer]

Post by Jon Danniken

   My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts,  so that I could in fact make complete saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.

Got a gear shaft (the one between the lower pulley wheel and the brass
worm gear) you want to get rid of?  Mine snapped just past the bearings.

The worm gear/shaft attaches to the stepped belt pulley.  That can't be
removed, at least not by me -- wonder how they got that in there, cuz the
worm gear is not pinned to the shaft.  I don't think that worm gear is
brass.
The shaft for the blade pulley connects to a "regular" brass gear.  I got a
cupla of those (shaft+brass gear)  in varying conditions.  Those can be
pounded out, altho in pounding them back in, not sure how that will affect
seals, etc.
--
EA

Post by Jon Danniken
Jon

This guy use to be a lawyer. The detail he goes into is painful at
times to watch but if you really want a serious understanding of how
to tune and modify a bandsaw it's worth it. His DVD is almost 8 hours
of beyond anal retentive information exclusively on bandsaws.

http://www.passionforwood.com/dvds-bandsaw.htm

http://www.passionforwood.com/dvdpreview-bandsaw.html

[Existential Angst]

Post by Jon Danniken

Post by Existential Angst
My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts, so that I could in fact make complete
saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.

Got a gear shaft (the one between the lower pulley wheel and the brass
worm gear) you want to get rid of? Mine snapped just past the bearings.

The worm gear/shaft attaches to the stepped belt pulley. That can't be
removed, at least not by me -- wonder how they got that in there, cuz the
worm gear is not pinned to the shaft. I don't think that worm gear is
brass.
The shaft for the blade pulley connects to a "regular" brass gear. I got a
cupla of those (shaft+brass gear) in varying conditions. Those can be
pounded out, altho in pounding them back in, not sure how that will affect
seals, etc.
--
EA

Post by Jon Danniken
Jon

This guy use to be a lawyer. The detail he goes into is painful at
times to watch but if you really want a serious understanding of how
to tune and modify a bandsaw it's worth it. His DVD is almost 8 hours
of beyond anal retentive information exclusively on bandsaws.

http://www.passionforwood.com/dvds-bandsaw.htm

http://www.passionforwood.com/dvdpreview-bandsaw.html

=======================================================

Nice site, guy seems to really enjoy his craft. The rec.woodworking peeple
would proly appreciate this as well. I have to post my home-moaners
travails of spray painting over there (HF pressurized paint pot), I'll give
them the link.

[jon_banquer]

Post by jon_banquer

Post by Jon Danniken

Post by Existential Angst
My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts, so that I could in fact make complete
saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.

Got a gear shaft (the one between the lower pulley wheel and the brass
worm gear) you want to get rid of? Mine snapped just past the bearings.

The worm gear/shaft attaches to the stepped belt pulley. That can't be
removed, at least not by me -- wonder how they got that in there, cuz the
worm gear is not pinned to the shaft. I don't think that worm gear is
brass.
The shaft for the blade pulley connects to a "regular" brass gear. I got a
cupla of those (shaft+brass gear) in varying conditions. Those can be
pounded out, altho in pounding them back in, not sure how that will affect
seals, etc.
--
EA

Post by Jon Danniken
Jon

This guy use to be a lawyer. The detail he goes into is painful at
times to watch but if you really want a serious understanding of how
to tune and modify a bandsaw it's worth it. His DVD is almost 8 hours
of beyond anal retentive information exclusively on bandsaws.
http://www.passionforwood.com/dvds-bandsaw.htm
http://www.passionforwood.com/dvdpreview-bandsaw.html
=======================================================
Nice site, guy seems to really enjoy his craft.  The rec.woodworking peeple
would proly appreciate this as well.  I have to post my home-moaners
travails of spray painting over there (HF pressurized paint pot), I'll give
them the link.
--
EA

He really understands the technical details of woodworking tools and
how to properly cut wood where I feel most don't. That he takes the
time to explain the important details in full is what I think really
sets him apart.

At first glance many people think a bandsaw is a simple piece of
equipment. In truth it's very fussy to tune and keep running right.

[Jon Danniken]

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message

Post by Jon Danniken
Got a gear shaft (the one between the lower pulley wheel and the brass
worm gear) you want to get rid of? Mine snapped just past the bearings.

The worm gear/shaft attaches to the stepped belt pulley. That can't be
removed, at least not by me -- wonder how they got that in there, cuz the
worm gear is not pinned to the shaft. I don't think that worm gear is
brass.
The shaft for the blade pulley connects to a "regular" brass gear. I got a
cupla of those (shaft+brass gear) in varying conditions. Those can be
pounded out, altho in pounding them back in, not sure how that will affect
seals, etc.

Ah, you are correct, it has been a few months since mine went south.

Funny thing about it is that the hole drilled for the pin is off-center;
I don't know if they are all off center, or if it just depends on who is
running the drill press that day:

Loading Image...

Jon

[David Billington]

Post by Jon Danniken

Post by Existential Angst
My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts, so that I could in fact make complete saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.

Got a gear shaft (the one between the lower pulley wheel and the brass
worm gear) you want to get rid of? Mine snapped just past the bearings.
Jon

Is the spares back up from the suppliers poor in the US? When I needed a
new worm and wheel for my 4x6 here in the UK I just went and asked the
supplier MachineMart http://www.machinemart.co.uk/ and they had them in
stock and I had the new items in a couple of days for about £17 total
which I thought was very reasonable. That was about 7 years ago and the
saw was about 7 years old at the time and the parts fitted fine. When I
first got the saw the worm and wheel mesh was very tight and had to be
adjusted and at sometime subsequently moved again and eventually wore
the wheel badly, I suspect as the tops of the worm teeth were very
sharp. I fitted 4 new ball bearings to support the bits as at least one
of the originals had a bore about 0.005" over size so not a good fit
with the shaft. On the few occasions I have gone to MachineMart for
spares they have always had them in stock and delivered quickly so might
be an option although shipping to the US would add some to the final price.

[Jon Danniken]

Post by David Billington

Post by Jon Danniken
Got a gear shaft (the one between the lower pulley wheel and the brass
worm gear) you want to get rid of? Mine snapped just past the bearings.
Jon

Is the spares back up from the suppliers poor in the US? When I needed a
new worm and wheel for my 4x6 here in the UK I just went and asked the
supplier MachineMart http://www.machinemart.co.uk/ and they had them in
stock and I had the new items in a couple of days for about £17 total
which I thought was very reasonable. That was about 7 years ago and the
saw was about 7 years old at the time and the parts fitted fine. When I
first got the saw the worm and wheel mesh was very tight and had to be
adjusted and at sometime subsequently moved again and eventually wore
the wheel badly, I suspect as the tops of the worm teeth were very
sharp. I fitted 4 new ball bearings to support the bits as at least one
of the originals had a bore about 0.005" over size so not a good fit
with the shaft. On the few occasions I have gone to MachineMart for
spares they have always had them in stock and delivered quickly so might
be an option although shipping to the US would add some to the final price.

Thanks for the tip, David. I bought mine from an outfit called Harbor
Freight, and I'm pretty sure they don't have parts available.

Nice to know there is at least one place that still does that!

Jon

[Pete S]

Regarding parts from Harbor Freight:
I have never been disappointed when I needed parts from them.
-Simply go to their website.
-Search for the item you have
-Somewhere on that page will be a link to the "Manual".
-Open it up and you will find the parts list toward the back of the manual
-Locate and write down the numbers of the parts you need.
-Write down the model number of the product.
-Call Harbor Freight tech support (or customer service if you can't find the
tech support number) and tell them what you want to order.

You will be surprised at the wide variety of parts that they do have in
stock. Sometimes, though, I have had to wait several weeks for a part, but
they tell you that up front. This can happen when you need a part that
isn't normally called for.

I don't work for HF, and I do realize that you get what you pay for.
HF works for me, with the above in mind.

Now, here's my dirty little HF-as-a-parts-source secret:
Since the Chinese rip off many, many tool designs, the parts they use are
often exact copies of the original designs. I go there to get parts for the
original machines when the price for a "real one" is 'way too high for me.
Example:
I needed a 12" long tool rest for an old Delta wood lathe. Ebay price for a
used one was about $50, if you could find one.
HF has a similar size lathe, obviously very cheaply made, but with a cast
iron tool rest, just like the original. I copied down the model number,
went home and looked up the manual. Price brand new: $7.00!

Pete Stanaitis
---------------

Post by Jon Danniken
Thanks for the tip, David. I bought mine from an outfit called Harbor
Freight, and I'm pretty sure they don't have parts available.
Nice to know there is at least one place that still does that!
Jon

[Jon Danniken]

Post by Pete S
I have never been disappointed when I needed parts from them.
-Simply go to their website.
-Search for the item you have
-Somewhere on that page will be a link to the "Manual".
-Open it up and you will find the parts list toward the back of the manual
-Locate and write down the numbers of the parts you need.
-Write down the model number of the product.
-Call Harbor Freight tech support (or customer service if you can't find
the tech support number) and tell them what you want to order.
You will be surprised at the wide variety of parts that they do have in
stock. Sometimes, though, I have had to wait several weeks for a part,
but they tell you that up front. This can happen when you need a part
that isn't normally called for.

[snip]

Thanks for that information, Pete, I wouldn't have guessed that they
were able to order parts. I'll give them a jingle tomorrow and see what
they have to say.

Jon

[Existential Angst]

Post by Pete S
I have never been disappointed when I needed parts from them.
-Simply go to their website.
-Search for the item you have
-Somewhere on that page will be a link to the "Manual".
-Open it up and you will find the parts list toward the back of the manual
-Locate and write down the numbers of the parts you need.
-Write down the model number of the product.
-Call Harbor Freight tech support (or customer service if you can't find
the tech support number) and tell them what you want to order.
You will be surprised at the wide variety of parts that they do have in
stock. Sometimes, though, I have had to wait several weeks for a part,
but they tell you that up front. This can happen when you need a part
that isn't normally called for.
I don't work for HF, and I do realize that you get what you pay for.
HF works for me, with the above in mind.
Since the Chinese rip off many, many tool designs, the parts they use are
often exact copies of the original designs. I go there to get parts for
the original machines when the price for a "real one" is 'way too high for
me.
I needed a 12" long tool rest for an old Delta wood lathe. Ebay price for
a used one was about $50, if you could find one.
HF has a similar size lathe, obviously very cheaply made, but with a cast
iron tool rest, just like the original. I copied down the model number,
went home and looked up the manual. Price brand new: $7.00!

Great info.
--
EA

Post by Pete S
Pete Stanaitis
---------------

Post by Jon Danniken
Thanks for the tip, David. I bought mine from an outfit called Harbor
Freight, and I'm pretty sure they don't have parts available.
Nice to know there is at least one place that still does that!
Jon

[Too_Many_Tools]

  I have never been disappointed when I needed parts from them.
-Simply go to their website.
-Search for the item you have
-Somewhere on that page will be a link to the "Manual".
-Open it up and you will find the parts list toward the back of the manual
-Locate and write down the numbers of the parts you need.
-Write down the model number of the product.
-Call Harbor Freight tech support (or customer service if you can't find the
tech support number) and tell them what you want to order.
You will be surprised at the wide variety of parts that they do have in
stock.  Sometimes, though, I have had to wait several weeks for a part, but
they tell you that up front.  This can happen when you need a part that
isn't normally called for.
I don't work for HF, and I do realize that you get what you pay for.
HF works for me, with the above in mind.
Since the Chinese rip off many, many tool designs, the parts they use are
often exact copies of the original designs.  I go there to get parts for the
original machines when the price for a "real one" is 'way too high for me.
I needed a 12" long tool rest for an old Delta wood lathe.  Ebay price for a
used one was about $50, if you could find one.
HF has a similar size lathe, obviously very cheaply made, but with a cast
iron tool rest, just like the original.  I copied down the model number,
went home and looked up the manual.  Price brand new: $7.00!
Pete Stanaitis
---------------

Thanks for the tip, David.  I bought mine from an outfit called Harbor
Freight, and I'm pretty sure they don't have parts available.
Nice to know there is at least one place that still does that!
Jon- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I use HF for a parts source for other non-HF tools also.

Great prices.

As for your example of a tool rest, HF is a great source for
accessories that other manufacturers either do not carry or will rape
you for the honor of buying from them.

TMT

[Gunner]

On Sun, 2 Dec 2012 11:02:18 -0600, "Pete S"

Post by Pete S
I have never been disappointed when I needed parts from them.
-Simply go to their website.
-Search for the item you have
-Somewhere on that page will be a link to the "Manual".
-Open it up and you will find the parts list toward the back of the manual
-Locate and write down the numbers of the parts you need.
-Write down the model number of the product.
-Call Harbor Freight tech support (or customer service if you can't find the
tech support number) and tell them what you want to order.
You will be surprised at the wide variety of parts that they do have in
stock. Sometimes, though, I have had to wait several weeks for a part, but
they tell you that up front. This can happen when you need a part that
isn't normally called for.
I don't work for HF, and I do realize that you get what you pay for.
HF works for me, with the above in mind.
Since the Chinese rip off many, many tool designs, the parts they use are
often exact copies of the original designs. I go there to get parts for the
original machines when the price for a "real one" is 'way too high for me.
I needed a 12" long tool rest for an old Delta wood lathe. Ebay price for a
used one was about $50, if you could find one.
HF has a similar size lathe, obviously very cheaply made, but with a cast
iron tool rest, just like the original. I copied down the model number,
went home and looked up the manual. Price brand new: $7.00!
Pete Stanaitis
---------------

Well stated and 100% correct

Post by Pete S

Post by Jon Danniken
Thanks for the tip, David. I bought mine from an outfit called Harbor
Freight, and I'm pretty sure they don't have parts available.
Nice to know there is at least one place that still does that!
Jon

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

[Jon Danniken]

Post by Pete S
I have never been disappointed when I needed parts from them.
-Simply go to their website.
-Search for the item you have
-Somewhere on that page will be a link to the "Manual".
-Open it up and you will find the parts list toward the back of the manual
-Locate and write down the numbers of the parts you need.
-Write down the model number of the product.
-Call Harbor Freight tech support (or customer service if you can't find
the tech support number) and tell them what you want to order.
You will be surprised at the wide variety of parts that they do have in
stock. Sometimes, though, I have had to wait several weeks for a part,
but they tell you that up front. This can happen when you need a part
that isn't normally called for.
I don't work for HF, and I do realize that you get what you pay for.
HF works for me, with the above in mind.
Since the Chinese rip off many, many tool designs, the parts they use
are often exact copies of the original designs. I go there to get parts
for the original machines when the price for a "real one" is 'way too
high for me.
I needed a 12" long tool rest for an old Delta wood lathe. Ebay price
for a used one was about $50, if you could find one.
HF has a similar size lathe, obviously very cheaply made, but with a
cast iron tool rest, just like the original. I copied down the model
number, went home and looked up the manual. Price brand new: $7.00!

To follow up on this, I got an email from HF this afternoon, letting me
know that the gear shaft for my 4x6 was available, and less than five
bucks.

Thanks to Pete and Gunner for the suggestion.

Jon

[Gunner]

On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 16:02:12 -0800, Jon Danniken

Post by Jon Danniken

Post by Pete S
I have never been disappointed when I needed parts from them.
-Simply go to their website.
-Search for the item you have
-Somewhere on that page will be a link to the "Manual".
-Open it up and you will find the parts list toward the back of the manual
-Locate and write down the numbers of the parts you need.
-Write down the model number of the product.
-Call Harbor Freight tech support (or customer service if you can't find
the tech support number) and tell them what you want to order.
You will be surprised at the wide variety of parts that they do have in
stock. Sometimes, though, I have had to wait several weeks for a part,
but they tell you that up front. This can happen when you need a part
that isn't normally called for.
I don't work for HF, and I do realize that you get what you pay for.
HF works for me, with the above in mind.
Since the Chinese rip off many, many tool designs, the parts they use
are often exact copies of the original designs. I go there to get parts
for the original machines when the price for a "real one" is 'way too
high for me.
I needed a 12" long tool rest for an old Delta wood lathe. Ebay price
for a used one was about $50, if you could find one.
HF has a similar size lathe, obviously very cheaply made, but with a
cast iron tool rest, just like the original. I copied down the model
number, went home and looked up the manual. Price brand new: $7.00!

To follow up on this, I got an email from HF this afternoon, letting me
know that the gear shaft for my 4x6 was available, and less than five
bucks.
Thanks to Pete and Gunner for the suggestion.
Jon

Gunner tips his hat


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

[Gunner]

On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:04:24 -0800, Jon Danniken

Post by Jon Danniken

Post by David Billington

Post by Jon Danniken
Got a gear shaft (the one between the lower pulley wheel and the brass
worm gear) you want to get rid of? Mine snapped just past the bearings.
Jon

Is the spares back up from the suppliers poor in the US? When I needed a
new worm and wheel for my 4x6 here in the UK I just went and asked the
supplier MachineMart http://www.machinemart.co.uk/ and they had them in
stock and I had the new items in a couple of days for about £17 total
which I thought was very reasonable. That was about 7 years ago and the
saw was about 7 years old at the time and the parts fitted fine. When I
first got the saw the worm and wheel mesh was very tight and had to be
adjusted and at sometime subsequently moved again and eventually wore
the wheel badly, I suspect as the tops of the worm teeth were very
sharp. I fitted 4 new ball bearings to support the bits as at least one
of the originals had a bore about 0.005" over size so not a good fit
with the shaft. On the few occasions I have gone to MachineMart for
spares they have always had them in stock and delivered quickly so might
be an option although shipping to the US would add some to the final price.

Thanks for the tip, David. I bought mine from an outfit called Harbor
Freight, and I'm pretty sure they don't have parts available.
Nice to know there is at least one place that still does that!
Jon

Actually Harbor Freight is pretty good about supplying parts. They
have been known to strip parts from a brand new good machine to make
sure the customer is taken care of. Parts that make the brand new
machine no longer usable to any degree.

http://www.harborfreight.com/contact-customer-service

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

[Jon Danniken]

Post by Gunner
Actually Harbor Freight is pretty good about supplying parts. They
have been known to strip parts from a brand new good machine to make
sure the customer is taken care of. Parts that make the brand new
machine no longer usable to any degree.
http://www.harborfreight.com/contact-customer-service

Even easier; thanks Gunner!

Jon

[Existential Angst]

Post by David Billington

Post by Jon Danniken

Post by Existential Angst
My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and
their "sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month
I just scavenged zillions of parts, so that I could in fact make
complete saws. Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those
bullshit guards, protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit
out.

Got a gear shaft (the one between the lower pulley wheel and the brass
worm gear) you want to get rid of? Mine snapped just past the bearings.
Jon

Is the spares back up from the suppliers poor in the US? When I needed a
new worm and wheel for my 4x6 here in the UK I just went and asked the
supplier MachineMart http://www.machinemart.co.uk/ and they had them in
stock and I had the new items in a couple of days for about £17 total
which I thought was very reasonable. That was about 7 years ago and the
saw was about 7 years old at the time and the parts fitted fine. When I
first got the saw the worm and wheel mesh was very tight and had to be
adjusted and at sometime subsequently moved again and eventually wore the
wheel badly, I suspect as the tops of the worm teeth were very sharp. I
fitted 4 new ball bearings to support the bits as at least one of the
originals had a bore about 0.005" over size so not a good fit with the
shaft. On the few occasions I have gone to MachineMart for spares they
have always had them in stock and delivered quickly so might be an option
although shipping to the US would add some to the final price.

Indeed, under Customer Svc, they have a Parts Dept.... what a revolutionary
concept.... altho over here, Sears always had a good parts network, for
their stuff.

In terms of wear in the gearbox, sometimes these saws are shipped almost
bone-dry, with a shitty li'l dollop of grease, that can't poss. get to the
gear teeth or bearings.

So what I do -- which may not be the best application of lubrication
science, but it beats a dry gear box -- I put in gobs of axle grease, a gob
of lithium grease, and *fill* the box with 20W-50 or gear oil.

Filling the whole box with oil also makes sure the bearings stay lubed, as
well.
Everyone with a 4x6 should pop the cover off, and fill up that gear box.

[bob haller]

Post by Existential Angst
So what I do -- which may not be the best application of lubrication
science, but it beats a dry gear box -- I put in gobs of axle grease, a gob
of lithium grease, and *fill* the box with 20W-50 or gear oil.

NEVER MIX different types of grease!

lithium added too most others equals crud / rock that jams whatever
you were trying to lube

For many years I had a customer with a machine I serviced in their
lab.. they had a large chart on the wall with details of whats
compatible.

lithium isnt compatible with much of anything,,,,,,

[Existential Angst]

Post by bob haller

Post by Existential Angst
So what I do -- which may not be the best application of lubrication
science, but it beats a dry gear box -- I put in gobs of axle grease, a gob
of lithium grease, and *fill* the box with 20W-50 or gear oil.

NEVER MIX different types of grease!
lithium added too most others equals crud / rock that jams whatever
you were trying to lube
For many years I had a customer with a machine I serviced in their
lab.. they had a large chart on the wall with details of whats
compatible.
lithium isnt compatible with much of anything,,,,,,

Hmmm.... I'll check the box in a cupla days, report back.
Fort'ly, the dollop of lithium grease wadn't as big as any of the other
dollops.... lol

[Doug White]

Post by Existential Angst
In terms of wear in the gearbox, sometimes these saws are shipped
almost bone-dry, with a shitty li'l dollop of grease, that can't poss.
get to the gear teeth or bearings.
So what I do -- which may not be the best application of lubrication
science, but it beats a dry gear box -- I put in gobs of axle grease,
a gob of lithium grease, and *fill* the box with 20W-50 or gear oil.
Filling the whole box with oil also makes sure the bearings stay
lubed, as well.
Everyone with a 4x6 should pop the cover off, and fill up that gear box.

What I read was that there is often casting sand left in the gearbox. I
bought a Jet in the hopes that they took a little more care, but opened
it up anyway. Sure enough, half a teaspoon of sand mixed in with the
gear oil...

Doug White

[Jim Wilkins]

... Idears, experiences, war stories on repairs??
EA

I have a 1989 Delta 4x6 which was well made and cuts square. Someone
didn't like it because I bought it from a pawn shop for ~$120 in the
mid 1990's.

[Gunner]

On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 13:10:33 -0500, "Existential Angst"

Post by Existential Angst
Awl --
How do you know when to junk it, and just get another one?
I've had two main problems: Blade tracking (jumping off the wheels), and
wildly non-vertical cuts.
Now, I know the blade tracking can be adjusted by a kind of camber screw on
the top wheel, and that the blade guides can be rotated for cut
perpendicularity, but neither of these seem to be helping.
The blade wheels don't seem to be worn, altho I'm not sure if the blade
surface of those wheels is supposed to be exactly parallel to the rotation
axis, or have a slight rake toward the back flange, to help keep the blade
on the wheel.
Would it be useful to put a rake on this face, on the lathe?
Next, how much play in the blade guide bearings is acceptable? The ones I
replaced had very little play, but replacing them seemed to solve the
problem.
Wtf did MOI get replacement parts from ????
Ahhhh, li'l Grasshoppers......
My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts, so that I could in fact make complete saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.
If you want a nice stand, spend $50 on one of them wheeled/shelved wire
carts from Sams/Costco.... good rolling cart, with good storage. I
actually have TWO 4x6's mounted side by side on one of these carts, one for
alum, one for steel -- vastly reduced belt/blade changing, you really get
spoiled by this, AND your blades last a lot longer.
But, the Q remains: If one does not have that type of parts bonanza (which
moi no longer has), just how DO you get parts??
You can find all kinds of help/tips for these saws, but no real parts
source. Which suggests that this is, essentially, a throw-away tool, after
a while.
I wonder how many sep. factories there are for this tool, in Taiwan/China,
because some saws seem to be made a bit better than others. Is there a
known outlet for the better saws?? I can't imagine it would be
effingHF.....
I essentially gave up on these saws, let them sit for about 2 years, since I
do little steel cutting these days, and discovered the RAS for aluminum,
even 3" bar.
But, the RAS can requires some testosterone (and boucou ear plugs), and I'm
running low on the former. Plus, tough to use the RAS at 3 a.m.....
But on a massive cleanup of the shop, I decided to take care of bidness, but
still, the problems were curious in their intractability, and I don't know
if brute-force parts replacement was the best solution, altho it appears to
be A solution.
I like the tip about an oil drip, for the blade. I made a pretty
sophisticated (well, at least for THIS saw) recirculating coolant
system/stand, which eventually got stolen (a left handed compliment, if
there ever was one), but realize that the oil drip idear may be a lot more
practical. Inyone done this?
Idears, experiences, war stories on repairs??

Chicom bandsaws are of "variable quality". Shrug

Some will work very nicely..others..need serious tweaking. Which is
the reason I have (2) Emerson 7x12s and a bigger Spartan saw.

There are many good online sources for data on tweaking these saws.

http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19751

https://www.google.com/search?q=tuning+chinese+horizontal+bandsaw

Hunt..and ye shall find the answers to the Universe!!

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

[Alphonso]

"Existential Angst" <***@optonline.net> wrote in news:50ba480f$0$1222$***@cv.net:

How did you fare from Sandy? I figured your basement would be completely
underwater.

[Existential Angst]

Post by Alphonso
How did you fare from Sandy? I figured your basement would be completely
underwater.

Hey, nice of you to ask, but no, I'm on a hill, bone dry. I lose power all
the time, which is why I'm x'ing off the days on my calendar until my 15,000
W nat gas genset arrives....
Didn't lose power during Sandy, but since I bit my fingernails to the quick,
I figger next time, with a genset, I at least won't have to bandage all 10
digits... LOL

Said hill, however, means I can't get to my house when it snows.... :(

[PrecisionmachinisT]

Post by Existential Angst
Awl --
How do you know when to junk it, and just get another one?

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/tls/3346824330.html

[Martin Eastburn]

I have a larger hobby size - 7x11 with fluid spray
and hydrologic feed. I put a hydrologic oil filter - a Parker
on the flow tube and it extends the life of the blades and improves
the cut as well. I have a nice M42 blade for it, but the carbon
blade keeps cutting and cutting. I finally broke some teeth off it
and replaced it with the last carbon. Figured I'd keep the M42 tip
for a special use or a later day.

The parker filter happens to be a common one and the oil in the oil bath
soaked the paper within and lasted and lasted. I finally rusted it when
the mix got old and watered down to much. That took 8 or 9 years just
like the last carbon blade. I have two more filters in the cabinet.

Martin

Post by Existential Angst
Awl --
How do you know when to junk it, and just get another one?
I've had two main problems: Blade tracking (jumping off the wheels), and
wildly non-vertical cuts.
Now, I know the blade tracking can be adjusted by a kind of camber screw on
the top wheel, and that the blade guides can be rotated for cut
perpendicularity, but neither of these seem to be helping.
The blade wheels don't seem to be worn, altho I'm not sure if the blade
surface of those wheels is supposed to be exactly parallel to the rotation
axis, or have a slight rake toward the back flange, to help keep the blade
on the wheel.
Would it be useful to put a rake on this face, on the lathe?
Next, how much play in the blade guide bearings is acceptable? The ones I
replaced had very little play, but replacing them seemed to solve the
problem.
Wtf did MOI get replacement parts from ????
Ahhhh, li'l Grasshoppers......
My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts, so that I could in fact make complete saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.
If you want a nice stand, spend $50 on one of them wheeled/shelved wire
carts from Sams/Costco.... good rolling cart, with good storage. I
actually have TWO 4x6's mounted side by side on one of these carts, one for
alum, one for steel -- vastly reduced belt/blade changing, you really get
spoiled by this, AND your blades last a lot longer.
But, the Q remains: If one does not have that type of parts bonanza (which
moi no longer has), just how DO you get parts??
You can find all kinds of help/tips for these saws, but no real parts
source. Which suggests that this is, essentially, a throw-away tool, after
a while.
I wonder how many sep. factories there are for this tool, in Taiwan/China,
because some saws seem to be made a bit better than others. Is there a
known outlet for the better saws?? I can't imagine it would be
effingHF.....
I essentially gave up on these saws, let them sit for about 2 years, since I
do little steel cutting these days, and discovered the RAS for aluminum,
even 3" bar.
But, the RAS can requires some testosterone (and boucou ear plugs), and I'm
running low on the former. Plus, tough to use the RAS at 3 a.m.....
But on a massive cleanup of the shop, I decided to take care of bidness, but
still, the problems were curious in their intractability, and I don't know
if brute-force parts replacement was the best solution, altho it appears to
be A solution.
I like the tip about an oil drip, for the blade. I made a pretty
sophisticated (well, at least for THIS saw) recirculating coolant
system/stand, which eventually got stolen (a left handed compliment, if
there ever was one), but realize that the oil drip idear may be a lot more
practical. Inyone done this?
Idears, experiences, war stories on repairs??

[Too_Many_Tools]

Post by Existential Angst
Awl --
How do you know when to junk it, and just get another one?
I've had two main problems:  Blade tracking (jumping off the wheels), and
wildly non-vertical cuts.
Now, I know the blade tracking can be adjusted by a kind of camber screw on
the top wheel, and that the blade guides can be rotated for cut
perpendicularity, but neither of these seem to be helping.
The blade wheels don't seem to be worn, altho I'm not sure if the blade
surface of those wheels is supposed to be exactly parallel to the rotation
axis, or have a slight rake toward the back flange, to help keep the blade
on the wheel.
Would it be useful to put a rake on this face, on the lathe?
Next, how much play in the blade guide bearings is acceptable?  The ones I
replaced had very little play, but replacing them seemed to solve the
problem.
   Wtf  did MOI get replacement parts from ????
Ahhhh, li'l Grasshoppers......
   My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts,  so that I could in fact make complete saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.
If you want a nice stand, spend $50 on one of them wheeled/shelved wire
carts from Sams/Costco....  good rolling cart, with good storage.  I
actually have TWO  4x6's mounted side by side on one of these carts, one for
alum, one for steel -- vastly reduced belt/blade changing, you really get
spoiled by this, AND your blades last a lot longer.
But, the Q remains:  If one does not have that type of parts bonanza (which
moi no longer has), just how DO you get parts??
You can find all kinds of help/tips for these saws, but no real parts
source.  Which suggests that this is, essentially, a throw-away tool, after
a while.
I wonder how many sep. factories there are for this tool, in Taiwan/China,
because some saws seem to be made a bit better than others.  Is there a
known outlet for the better saws??  I can't imagine it would be
effingHF.....
I essentially gave up on these saws, let them sit for about 2 years, since I
do little steel cutting these days, and discovered the RAS for aluminum,
even 3" bar.
But, the RAS can requires some testosterone (and boucou ear plugs), and I'm
running low on the former.  Plus, tough to use the RAS at 3 a.m.....
But on a massive cleanup of the shop, I decided to take care of bidness, but
still, the problems were curious in their intractability, and I don't know
if brute-force parts replacement was the best solution, altho it appears to
be A solution.
I like the tip about an oil drip, for the blade.  I made a pretty
sophisticated (well, at least for THIS saw) recirculating coolant
system/stand, which eventually got stolen (a left handed compliment, if
there ever was one), but realize that the oil drip idear may be a lot more
practical.  Inyone done this?
Idears, experiences, war stories on repairs??
--
EA

Your setup with a saw per specific blade is a great idea...of which I
will implement in my own shops.

I have many grinders with wheels per specific job...for a bit of floor
space you get significant convenience.

The cart for a stand is another great idea.

FYI...the retail chain is setup to sell "a box" and is not equipped
for even the slightest repair/adjustment job on any item.

For your tracking problem...make sure your blades are properly
tensioned...which means in this case to tighten the crap out of the
saw...proper tensioning really can't be done with the saw as it
is..the handle is too small..but having it as tight as you can do goes
a long ways. Also buy good blades...as with most machine tools today
the magic is in the cutting tool not the machine. Poorly made blades
will never track and will drive you crazy. I have had good luck with
Lenox and Morse brands.

TMT

[Existential Angst]

Post by Existential Angst
Awl --
How do you know when to junk it, and just get another one?
I've had two main problems: Blade tracking (jumping off the wheels), and
wildly non-vertical cuts.
Now, I know the blade tracking can be adjusted by a kind of camber screw on
the top wheel, and that the blade guides can be rotated for cut
perpendicularity, but neither of these seem to be helping.
The blade wheels don't seem to be worn, altho I'm not sure if the blade
surface of those wheels is supposed to be exactly parallel to the rotation
axis, or have a slight rake toward the back flange, to help keep the blade
on the wheel.
Would it be useful to put a rake on this face, on the lathe?
Next, how much play in the blade guide bearings is acceptable? The ones I
replaced had very little play, but replacing them seemed to solve the
problem.
Wtf did MOI get replacement parts from ????
Ahhhh, li'l Grasshoppers......
My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts, so that I could in fact make complete saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.
If you want a nice stand, spend $50 on one of them wheeled/shelved wire
carts from Sams/Costco.... good rolling cart, with good storage. I
actually have TWO 4x6's mounted side by side on one of these carts, one
for
alum, one for steel -- vastly reduced belt/blade changing, you really get
spoiled by this, AND your blades last a lot longer.
But, the Q remains: If one does not have that type of parts bonanza (which
moi no longer has), just how DO you get parts??
You can find all kinds of help/tips for these saws, but no real parts
source. Which suggests that this is, essentially, a throw-away tool, after
a while.
I wonder how many sep. factories there are for this tool, in Taiwan/China,
because some saws seem to be made a bit better than others. Is there a
known outlet for the better saws?? I can't imagine it would be
effingHF.....
I essentially gave up on these saws, let them sit for about 2 years, since I
do little steel cutting these days, and discovered the RAS for aluminum,
even 3" bar.
But, the RAS can requires some testosterone (and boucou ear plugs), and I'm
running low on the former. Plus, tough to use the RAS at 3 a.m.....
But on a massive cleanup of the shop, I decided to take care of bidness, but
still, the problems were curious in their intractability, and I don't know
if brute-force parts replacement was the best solution, altho it appears to
be A solution.
I like the tip about an oil drip, for the blade. I made a pretty
sophisticated (well, at least for THIS saw) recirculating coolant
system/stand, which eventually got stolen (a left handed compliment, if
there ever was one), but realize that the oil drip idear may be a lot more
practical. Inyone done this?
Idears, experiences, war stories on repairs??
--
EA

Your setup with a saw per specific blade is a great idea...of which I
will implement in my own shops.

I have many grinders with wheels per specific job...for a bit of floor
space you get significant convenience.

The cart for a stand is another great idea.
====================================================

Yeah, works good in tight spaces, as well. The "stands" that come with
these saws are soooo dorky and crappy....
The carts have great storage capacity, as well.

With the saws mounted close/side-by-side, you can also use both vises, which
helps in some cases.
Best to leave both saws "loose", so you can shove them around a bit, if only
to get the vise stop of one out of the way of the other. No biggie to do
this.

I also got rid of the screw belt-tension jobby, and got a long door spring,
which I wrapped from the top of the motor around to the pivot arm (where the
saw tension spring attaches), to create spring tension on the
motor/belt/pulley system, which makes speed changing near-instant -- one of
the best mods I made, bang-fer-buck-wise.
However, if you have dedicated saws with dedicated blades, this will be a
less critical feature, but if you have only one saw, and cut different
metals, it's really a time/effort saver.

This strategy can also be a bit of a blade saver, by allowing the pulley to
slip, in case of a real jam.

You shoulda seen my recirculating setup.... proly overkill tho.... the
oil drip thing I saw on youtube is something I may implement for myself.
-------------------------------------



FYI...the retail chain is setup to sell "a box" and is not equipped
for even the slightest repair/adjustment job on any item.

For your tracking problem...make sure your blades are properly
tensioned...which means in this case to tighten the crap out of the
saw...proper tensioning really can't be done with the saw as it
is..the handle is too small..but having it as tight as you can do goes
a long ways. Also buy good blades...as with most machine tools today
the magic is in the cutting tool not the machine. Poorly made blades
will never track and will drive you crazy. I have had good luck with
Lenox and Morse brands.
=======================================================

I never thought of that, but in hindsight I recall cheap blades that got
totally distorted by the saw.
And indeed cheap blades could be part of the problem.

I also need to get a good blade welder. I've had about 3, with not much
luck. I used to use one in a University machine shop, and even as a
neophyte back then, my blade welding was flawless -- with a DoAll blade
welder. Now, it's so hit and miss, I don't hardly bother, which is proly
why I let the saws sit out of commission so long.

I think HF has a blade welder. Any good?

Funny story: I sent a boxful of 1/2 blades to Starret for welding. They
were so offended by my blades they told me they were not only not going to
weld them, but that they were going to throw them out.....!!!!!!
I put a stop to that in a hurry, got the blades back, and have wished pox on
them ever since. Wadn't too impressed with Starret blades, either.

[Too_Many_Tools]

Post by Too_Many_Tools

Post by Existential Angst
Awl --
How do you know when to junk it, and just get another one?
I've had two main problems: Blade tracking (jumping off the wheels), and
wildly non-vertical cuts.
Now, I know the blade tracking can be adjusted by a kind of camber screw on
the top wheel, and that the blade guides can be rotated for cut
perpendicularity, but neither of these seem to be helping.
The blade wheels don't seem to be worn, altho I'm not sure if the blade
surface of those wheels is supposed to be exactly parallel to the rotation
axis, or have a slight rake toward the back flange, to help keep the blade
on the wheel.
Would it be useful to put a rake on this face, on the lathe?
Next, how much play in the blade guide bearings is acceptable? The ones I
replaced had very little play, but replacing them seemed to solve the
problem.
Wtf did MOI get replacement parts from ????
Ahhhh, li'l Grasshoppers......
My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts, so that I could in fact make complete saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.
If you want a nice stand, spend $50 on one of them wheeled/shelved wire
carts from Sams/Costco.... good rolling cart, with good storage. I
actually have TWO 4x6's mounted side by side on one of these carts, one
for
alum, one for steel -- vastly reduced belt/blade changing, you really get
spoiled by this, AND your blades last a lot longer.
But, the Q remains: If one does not have that type of parts bonanza (which
moi no longer has), just how DO you get parts??
You can find all kinds of help/tips for these saws, but no real parts
source. Which suggests that this is, essentially, a throw-away tool, after
a while.
I wonder how many sep. factories there are for this tool, in Taiwan/China,
because some saws seem to be made a bit better than others. Is there a
known outlet for the better saws?? I can't imagine it would be
effingHF.....
I essentially gave up on these saws, let them sit for about 2 years, since I
do little steel cutting these days, and discovered the RAS for aluminum,
even 3" bar.
But, the RAS can requires some testosterone (and boucou ear plugs), and I'm
running low on the former. Plus, tough to use the RAS at 3 a.m.....
But on a massive cleanup of the shop, I decided to take care of bidness, but
still, the problems were curious in their intractability, and I don't know
if brute-force parts replacement was the best solution, altho it appears to
be A solution.
I like the tip about an oil drip, for the blade. I made a pretty
sophisticated (well, at least for THIS saw) recirculating coolant
system/stand, which eventually got stolen (a left handed compliment, if
there ever was one), but realize that the oil drip idear may be a lot more
practical. Inyone done this?
Idears, experiences, war stories on repairs??
--
EA

Your setup with a saw per specific blade is a great idea...of which I
will implement in my own shops.
I have many grinders with wheels per specific job...for a bit of floor
space you get significant convenience.
The cart for a stand is another great idea.
====================================================
Yeah, works good in tight spaces, as well.  The "stands" that come with
these saws are soooo dorky and crappy....
The carts have great storage capacity, as well.
With the saws mounted close/side-by-side, you can also use both vises, which
helps in some cases.
Best to leave both saws "loose", so you can shove them around a bit, if only
to get the vise stop of one out of the way of the other.  No biggie to do
this.
I also got rid of the screw belt-tension jobby, and got a long door spring,
which I wrapped from the top of the motor around to the pivot arm (where the
saw tension spring attaches), to create spring tension on the
motor/belt/pulley system, which makes speed changing near-instant -- one of
the best mods I made, bang-fer-buck-wise.
However, if you have dedicated saws with dedicated blades, this will be a
less critical feature, but if you have only one saw, and cut different
metals, it's really a time/effort saver.
This strategy can also be a bit of a blade saver, by allowing the pulley to
slip, in case of a real jam.
You shoulda seen my recirculating setup....   proly overkill tho....  the
oil drip thing I saw on youtube is something I may implement for myself.
-------------------------------------
FYI...the retail chain is setup to sell "a box" and is not equipped
for even the slightest repair/adjustment job on any item.
For your tracking problem...make sure your blades are properly
tensioned...which means in this case to tighten the crap out of the
saw...proper tensioning really can't be done with the saw as it
is..the handle is too small..but having it as tight as you can do goes
a long ways. Also buy good blades...as with most machine tools today
the magic is in the cutting tool not the machine. Poorly made blades
will never track and will drive you crazy. I have had good luck with
Lenox and Morse brands.
=======================================================
I never thought of that, but in hindsight I recall cheap blades that got
totally distorted by the saw.
And indeed cheap blades could be part of the problem.
I also need to get a good blade welder.  I've had about 3, with not much
luck.  I used to use one in a University machine shop, and even as a
neophyte back then, my blade welding was flawless -- with a DoAll blade
welder.  Now, it's so hit and miss, I don't hardly bother, which is proly
why I let the saws sit out of commission so long.
I think HF has a blade welder.  Any good?
Funny story:  I sent a boxful of 1/2 blades to Starret for welding.  They
were so offended by my blades they told me they were not only not going to
weld them, but that they were going to throw them out.....!!!!!!
I put a stop to that in a hurry, got the blades back, and have wished pox on
them ever since.  Wadn't too impressed with Starret blades, either.
--
EA
TMT- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

With today's machine tools the magic IS in the cutting tool itself.

Mill cutters, saw blades, lathe inserts, etc.....it allows us to use
machines that are of poorer quality machinewise than in the past.

Good blades WILL make any saw work better.

TMT

[Gunner]

Post by Existential Angst
I think HF has a blade welder. Any good?
Funny story: I sent a boxful of 1/2 blades to Starret for welding. They
were so offended by my blades they told me they were not only not going to
weld them, but that they were going to throw them out.....!!!!!!
I put a stop to that in a hurry, got the blades back, and have wished pox on
them ever since. Wadn't too impressed with Starret blades, either.

Lenox bi-metal blades. Best thing since oral sex and sliced bread.

Spend the extra couple dollars and only buy Lenox bi-metals. Really
good blade stock!!

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

[Mathew Molk]

Well,,,,I just ordered the second gear (Brass worm wheel) for our 32 year old Harbor freight 4x6 band saw. - (Parts arr actually easy to come by - Just not from Harbor Freight - Ie, BDI McMaster or Boston Gear)

The original gear was cast Iron and wore out and was replaced about 20 years ago with a brass gear. Now we will replace it with an Acura wheek and worm right off eBay. 65 bucks delivered to the shop door.

This is not a hobby saw either. We originally bought it as a dedicated machine for a job we did for Catipiller. Lots of 200-2" Long blocks from 2"x5/8 HRS Barstock (Actually it was metric 80x80x16 as I remember) We ran that job 8 to 10 times a year for over 3 years. - I also made a fixture to cut a 1/4x1/4 chamfer on the block but we found gang milling them in the Horz mill was faster. - Point is it;s not easy to cut the corner off a 2" block with a band saw. (So much for HF saws not cutting streight)

We put the little saw into general service after the Toowmotor moves to Korea and eventually sold the Kalamazoo because Bimetal blades for the HF saw were WAY cheaper and after we put flood coolant on the little saw they lasted every bit as long as the big saw blades. .,,, (We put a hydraulic feed on it last year and the blades last even longer now/ - We cut LOTS of 2" and 1-1'2: 4140 pre hard round bar and the hydraulic doubles the life of the BiMetal 6-10 blades. (Like I say- Not a hobby saw)

We are going to replace the bearings on the gearbox this time on GP , but the guide bearings are original and are in perfect shape.. With a micrometer stop we made fo the saw it cuts within .005 all day. (It gets run an average of 10 to 15 hours a week BTW.....MVP in the shop. Very little happens without it)

So when is it time to give up on these saws? When you die, especially if you modify them with things like water and hydraulic feeds. - Within the 4x6 range thee is nothing a brand new $10,000 ChiCom saw will do that this "throw-away" saw will not do.

As far as cutting straight, in the years we have had this saw I have found the only reason that keep it from cutting straight by looking in a mirror. When YOU get it adjusted it will cut dead nuts all day long.

Contact me at wrew4power#gmail if you want to pick my brai

[Jim Wilkins]

"Mathew Molk" wrote in message news:16eb0a9090d61659$3$1187009$***@news.newsgroupdirect.com...

Well,,,,I just ordered the second gear (Brass worm wheel) for our 32 year
old Harbor freight 4x6 band saw. - (Parts arr actually easy to come by -
Just not from Harbor Freight - Ie, BDI McMaster or Boston Gear)

The original gear was cast Iron and wore out and was replaced about 20 years
ago with a brass gear. Now we will replace it with an Acura wheek and worm
right off eBay. 65 bucks delivered to the shop door.

This is not a hobby saw either. We originally bought it as a dedicated
machine for a job we did for Catipiller. Lots of 200-2" Long blocks from
2"x5/8 HRS Barstock (Actually it was metric 80x80x16 as I remember) We ran
that job 8 to 10 times a year for over 3 years. - I also made a fixture to
cut a 1/4x1/4 chamfer on the block but we found gang milling them in the
Horz mill was faster. - Point is it;s not easy to cut the corner off a 2"
block with a band saw. (So much for HF saws not cutting streight)

We put the little saw into general service after the Toowmotor moves to
Korea and eventually sold the Kalamazoo because Bimetal blades for the HF
saw were WAY cheaper and after we put flood coolant on the little saw they
lasted every bit as long as the big saw blades. .,,, (We put a hydraulic
feed on it last year and the blades last even longer now/ - We cut LOTS of
2" and 1-1'2: 4140 pre hard round bar and the hydraulic doubles the life of
the BiMetal 6-10 blades. (Like I say- Not a hobby saw)

We are going to replace the bearings on the gearbox this time on GP , but
the guide bearings are original and are in perfect shape.. With a
micrometer stop we made fo the saw it cuts within .005 all day. (It gets run
an average of 10 to 15 hours a week BTW.....MVP in the shop. Very little
happens without it)

So when is it time to give up on these saws? When you die, especially if
you modify them with things like water and hydraulic feeds. - Within the 4x6
range thee is nothing a brand new $10,000 ChiCom saw will do that this
"throw-away" saw will not do.

As far as cutting straight, in the years we have had this saw I have found
the only reason that keep it from cutting straight by looking in a mirror.
When YOU get it adjusted it will cut dead nuts all day long.

Contact me at wrew4power#gmail if you want to pick my brain

----------------

What blades?

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Mathew Molk
Well,,,,I just ordered the second gear (Brass worm wheel) for our 32
year old Harbor freight 4x6 band saw. -  (Parts arr actually easy to
come by - Just not from Harbor Freight -  Ie, BDI McMaster or Boston Gear)
The original gear was cast Iron and wore out and was replaced about 20
years ago with a brass gear.  Now we will replace it with an Acura wheek
and worm right off eBay. 65 bucks delivered to the shop door.
This is not a hobby saw either. We originally bought it as a dedicated
machine for a job we did for Catipiller. Lots of 200-2" Long blocks from
2"x5/8 HRS Barstock (Actually it was metric 80x80x16 as I remember) We
ran that job 8 to 10 times a year for over 3 years. -  I also made a
fixture to cut a 1/4x1/4 chamfer on the block but we found gang milling
them in the Horz mill was faster. - Point is it;s not easy to cut the
corner off a 2" block with a band saw. (So much for HF saws not cutting
streight)
We put the little saw into general service after the Toowmotor moves to
Korea and eventually sold the Kalamazoo because Bimetal blades for the
HF saw were WAY cheaper and after we put flood coolant on the little saw
they lasted every bit as long as the big saw blades. .,,,  (We put a
hydraulic feed on it last year and the blades last even longer now/ - We
cut LOTS of 2" and 1-1'2: 4140 pre hard round bar and the hydraulic
doubles the life of the BiMetal 6-10 blades. (Like I say- Not a hobby saw)
We are going to replace the bearings on the gearbox this time on GP ,
but the guide bearings are original and are in perfect shape..  With a
micrometer stop we made fo the saw it cuts within .005 all day. (It gets
run an average of 10 to 15 hours a week BTW.....MVP in the shop. Very
little happens without it)
So when is it time to give up on these saws?  When you die, especially
if you modify them with things like water and hydraulic feeds. - Within
the 4x6 range thee is nothing a brand new $10,000 ChiCom saw will do
that this "throw-away" saw will not do.
As far as cutting straight,  in the years we have had this saw I have
found the only reason that keep it from cutting straight by looking in a
mirror. When YOU get it adjusted it will cut dead nuts all day long.
Contact me at wrew4power#gmail if you want to pick my brain

My HF 4x6 is not that old (ten years maybe), but I have had to replace
one gear. Bought mine from Grizzly. I did upgrade to the HF 7x12
(before the big price jump) a couple years ago, but I kept the 4x6. I
had mounted it flush on the end of a roller table, and its really handy
for severing round rod I use for inserts in molds. That being said the
HF 7 x 12 is an order of magnitude better saw. This is one of the old
tools made on the same old pattern that was definitely worth the money.
I probably won't ever sell my 4x6 (modified to manage 4 x 8). I have
found myself on more than one occasion using both saws at once. Its
particularly satisfying when I have CNC machines running in the shop,
I'm standing in front of the manual lathe or mill working, and I hear
blanks drop into the bucket under the saw behind me. Clunk!

The big deal for me on the 7x12 (and I could add it to the 4x6 if I was
inclined) is the built in coolant system. Well, that and the quite good
hydraulic feed for things like tube. If I needed another saw I would
gladly buy another one of either depending on my finances.

That being said cold saws are pretty impressive with doing copious
amounts of steel. Better tolerances and smoother finishes. I have also
considered the miter saw style bandsaw. Because you don't need to move
the whole saw assembly when mitering long pieces. Both are pretty small
envelope for their price tag. I have room 20 feet stock for now and its
not THAT hard to move the saw.

I will say that buying a horizontal bandsaw should be nearly every metal
shop's second purchase. Mill or lathe (usually not both at once as a
first tool) make money, but a horizontal band saw is a force multiplier.
When I bought my little 4 x 6 I was so chuffed I came on this group
and bitched everybody out for not telling me to buy one sooner. I have
lots of other metal cutting tools (torch, plasma, grinder, chop saw,
metal cutting circular saw, SawzAll, sabre saw, etc), but the horizontal
band saw out works all of them in my shop. I don't mean individually.
I mean combined.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t4mih3$sjt$***@dont-email.me...

...I have
lots of other metal cutting tools (torch, plasma, grinder, chop saw,
metal cutting circular saw, SawzAll, sabre saw, etc), but the horizontal
band saw out works all of them in my shop. I don't mean individually.
I mean combined.

-----------------

My 4x6 is also my wood cutoff saw. With a 6~10 TPI blade It has cut up to
6x6s cleanly, without a nub in the middle. Finer pitch blades just clog.

I modified mine to cut 8" wide too, but there's very little clearance for
chips to fall away before the blade enters the guide rollers. I left the 8"
width angle iron guide in place and milled the back edge of the original
guide's base to align against it when resetting to square from an angled
cut.

Also I added a second pair of mounting holes in the guide base to position
the end closer to the blade for more support when cutting short stock
square.

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Jim Wilkins
...I have
lots of other metal cutting tools (torch, plasma, grinder, chop saw,
metal cutting circular saw, SawzAll, sabre saw, etc), but the horizontal
band saw out works all of them in my shop.  I don't mean individually.
I mean combined.
-----------------
My 4x6 is also my wood cutoff saw. With a 6~10 TPI blade It has cut up
to 6x6s cleanly, without a nub in the middle. Finer pitch blades just clog.

I feel like a knob. I was trying to cut down some reclaimed guardrail
post the other day (a few months ago) and struggled. I've actually got
a low pitch carbide tooth blade for the 7x12. Of all the tools I have I
never thought of that one.

I wound up making multiple partial cuts on the big RAS and then breaking
it with a wedge. Then I had to clean it up and flatten it with a power
plane.

I was banding them together to make a "stump" for my anvil.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t4musd$tnc$***@dont-email.me...

I feel like a knob. I was trying to cut down some reclaimed guardrail
post the other day (a few months ago) and struggled. I've actually got
a low pitch carbide tooth blade for the 7x12. Of all the tools I have I
never thought of that one.

I wound up making multiple partial cuts on the big RAS and then breaking
it with a wedge. Then I had to clean it up and flatten it with a power
plane.

I was banding them together to make a "stump" for my anvil.

------------------------
I've tried the 4x6 as a chop saw to cut firewood that was smaller than a
chainsaw will cut without grabbing. It works reasonably well both
horizontally and vertically unless the branch is crooked and hard to hold
straight against the pull. I also bought an inexpensive top-handle
(one-hand) chainsaw that's probably a better and certainly faster and more
portable way to cut up branches that are between lopper and two-hand
chainsaw size. My other hand holds the branch or sawmill slab firmly against
the sawbucks, which eliminates jumping and reduces grabbing, and feeds it
for the next cut. Be very careful with one-hand 'arborist' chainsaws. So far
I've used it only with the sawbuck frame guarding my off hand from the bar
and the saw held out beside me.

I thought an anvil should be mounted on a wood 'stump' with the top at
knuckle height until I took the blacksmithing class. His were on welded
angle iron frames at various heights, for various sized students, and all
that I tried were satisfactory until my arm tired. The smiths at ag fairs
have portable pipe / angle iron stands for their anvils and leg vises.

To better view delicate work I remounted my anvil at waist height on a
tripod of one 2x6 and 2 2x4 legs which makes it more stable and generally
useful than it was on the oak log section. It may preferably be lower for a
long session of heavy hammering but I don't draw out metal that way, and my
eyes focus best at closer computer monitor distance. For me higher is better
for center-punching scribe marks and flattening and shaping sheet metal with
a light hammer. The anvil removes the temptation to misuse a machine tool as
one.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:t4okom$e71$***@dont-email.me...

I wound up making multiple partial cuts on the big RAS and then breaking
it with a wedge. Then I had to clean it up and flatten it with a power
plane.

--------------------

I've noticed that very experienced craftsmen are extremely reluctant to use
hand tools these days. I save a contractor's PT 6x6 deck post cutoffs for
cribbing and see that none were severed in the middle with a hand or pruning
saw. I suppose they never learned how to keep saws sharp, and maybe don't
want to be embarrassed by poor results.

I did learn how in Jr High, and surprised a carpenter neighbor with
press-fit hand cut mortices in a shed frame made from tree trunks.

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe
I wound up making multiple partial cuts on the big RAS and then breaking
it with a wedge.  Then I had to clean it up and flatten it with a power
plane.
--------------------
I've noticed that very experienced craftsmen are extremely reluctant to
use hand tools these days.

Remember my lecture about time? Time is the most ireplacable commodity
for anybody. Not just me. I learned very quickly that a $300 electric
drill or an $800 rotary hammer saved me money every single time I used
them. I've used a bit brace, and I am fairly capable with a star drill
and a hammer, but for the most part I can't afford to take that much
time to do any job.

I save a contractor's PT 6x6 deck post

Post by Bob La Londe
cutoffs for cribbing and see that none were severed in the middle with a
hand or pruning saw. I suppose they never learned how to keep saws
sharp, and maybe don't want to be embarrassed by poor results.

Sharpening saws is still a thing. There is a still a sharpening service
here in Yuma. I do not use them since I can sharpen pretty much
anything I need sharpened except end mills. Even then I save old end
mills in both HSS and carbide to make other tools. I'm starting to get
a collection of special purpose D-Bits.

Post by Bob La Londe
I did learn how in Jr High, and surprised a carpenter neighbor with
press-fit hand cut mortices in a shed frame made from tree trunks.

Often a home shop craftsman or or hobbyist will take greater care and
build nicer wood projects than a professional due to time constraints.
You can make all the arguments you want about quality and pride in
workmanship, but a person who does it for a living MUST be able to beat
mass produced wood (paper) products without charging so much as to make
it unattainable to their customer base. They can charge more, but they
can't charge hand cut dovetail more and still make a decent wage no
matter how good they are. I don't do this for a living and I am not a
wood worker except when SWMBO says she needs something. I have routers
and a dovetail jig. Three drawers and I have saved enough time to pay
for all of it. Your neighbor was likely impressed with your work
because it was good, but that does not mean he couldn't do it. More
likely he just doesn't have the time to do that.

If you want to be a entertained watch Rex Figures it Out on YouTube.
He's a little over the top but most pro YouTubers are. He used to be a
professional wood worker, and has transistion to being a (mostly) hand
tool wood worker and professional YouTuber.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Jim Wilkins
I've noticed that very experienced craftsmen are extremely reluctant to
use hand tools these days.

Remember my lecture about time? Time is the most ireplacable commodity
for anybody. Not just me. I learned very quickly that a $300 electric
drill or an $800 rotary hammer saved me money every single time I used
them. I've used a bit brace, and I am fairly capable with a star drill
and a hammer, but for the most part I can't afford to take that much
time to do any job.

------------------------
Time mattered when I was on the clock, now that I'm retired energy has
become the limiting resource. I no longer have as much as when I was only
70.

I was thinking of a recent job where the mentioned homeowner / retired
carpenter needed to cut a section of plastic gutter and spent at least half
an hour finding, digging out and setting up his radial arm saw and the other
stuff he needed, which had become separated during other jobs. He works out
of his truck and doesn't have a home shop set up, like me he has to move
woodworking power tools out into the driveway and pack them away afterwards,
which costs time. The next day I cut another piece in ~10 minutes
discuss>measure>argue>cut>install with a fine tooth hand saw, splitting the
pencil line because he bet me I couldn't cut it square. It was a difficult
installation because we couldn't find all the parts in any one style at two
Big Boxes and one local store and had to adapt rectangular to square.

I use power tools as much as I can but I don't have any that can cut a
close-fitting mortice notch for a slightly curved 2x8 in the side of upright
tree trunks that were part of an existing shed. For that I chain-sawed flats
on the trunks, clamped the 2x8 in place, clamped 2x4 blocks snugly against
it above and below, removed the 2x8 and guided the hand saw against the
blocks, thus putting the saw kerf within the beam mortice. Then I hogged out
the rest with the chainsaw and chiseled the inner side parallel to the other
upright by eye. This was to stiffen a roof that had sagged under the
previous year's snow load.

Much of the work on those pole sheds was done out in the woods with the logs
on sawbucks. I learned to cut a respectably straight, level and smooth flat
on a log with a chainsaw freehand.

The contractor neighbor loaned/gave? me a rock drill and 1-1/4 bit because
it had needed the cord replaced and he bought another drill instead to get
the job done on time, like you said. It's SO much faster than a star drill
for splitting off inconvenient rocks.

The top one sharpens the end flutes of end mills nicely.
https://www.kbctools.com/catsearch/146/end-mill-grinding-fixtures
The lowest one does side flutes but it's fussy to adjust and difficult to
use, and of course they become undersized, better for roughing than
finishing.

For my low-budget hobby use I sharpen only the end flutes and rough out
steel by plunging down, which doesn't dull the sides. The horizontal feed
between plunges is less than the radius so I don't have to keep them
center-cutting.

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Jim Wilkins
The top one sharpens the end flutes of end mills nicely.
https://www.kbctools.com/catsearch/146/end-mill-grinding-fixtures
The lowest one does side flutes but it's fussy to adjust and difficult
to use, and of course they become undersized, better for roughing than
finishing.
For my low-budget hobby use I sharpen only the end flutes and rough out
steel by plunging down, which doesn't dull the sides. The horizontal
feed between plunges is less than the radius so I don't have to keep
them center-cutting.

I guess I could say I don't really have the skills to sharpen end mills.
I expect if I setup a finger tracer for the Tool and Cutter grinder I
could sharpen the flutes of some end mills. Maybe the ends on 2 flute
and maybe some four flute. I do mostly CNC work where I am running by
dead reckoning and I have to count on the machine to be close enough. I
have measured and setup jobs using regrinds, but only for one off
special jobs where I needed an angle or a corner radius that was an
oddball and the only one that I found that was cost effective was a
regrind. Mostly for efficient time management I use new end mills and
when specs fail it goes in the bucket.

When I first got the T&C grinder I bought a diamond cutoff wheel for it.
This might be right up your alley for being frugal. Most of the time
when an end mill fails its just the tips/corners. I can cut that off
while turning the mill and approaching the wheel at a slight angle.
This gives me a nearly new side mill with a shorter flute, and there is
a slight hollow grind on the end to eliminate drag. You can't plunge
with it, but you can get some more life out of a mill (its no longer an
end mill) that would otherwise just go in the scrap carbide bucket.
When I chowder that I save what's left to make a D-bit cutter of some
kind.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Jim Wilkins
The top one sharpens the end flutes of end mills nicely.
https://www.kbctools.com/catsearch/146/end-mill-grinding-fixtures
The lowest one does side flutes but it's fussy to adjust and difficult to
use, and of course they become undersized, better for roughing than
finishing.
For my low-budget hobby use I sharpen only the end flutes and rough out
steel by plunging down, which doesn't dull the sides. The horizontal feed
between plunges is less than the radius so I don't have to keep them
center-cutting.

I guess I could say I don't really have the skills to sharpen end mills.
I expect if I setup a finger tracer for the Tool and Cutter grinder I
could sharpen the flutes of some end mills. Maybe the ends on 2 flute
and maybe some four flute. I do mostly CNC work where I am running by
dead reckoning and I have to count on the machine to be close enough. I
have measured and setup jobs using regrinds, but only for one off
special jobs where I needed an angle or a corner radius that was an
oddball and the only one that I found that was cost effective was a
regrind. Mostly for efficient time management I use new end mills and
when specs fail it goes in the bucket.

When I first got the T&C grinder I bought a diamond cutoff wheel for it.
This might be right up your alley for being frugal. Most of the time
when an end mill fails its just the tips/corners. I can cut that off
while turning the mill and approaching the wheel at a slight angle.
This gives me a nearly new side mill with a shorter flute, and there is
a slight hollow grind on the end to eliminate drag. You can't plunge
with it, but you can get some more life out of a mill (its no longer an
end mill) that would otherwise just go in the scrap carbide bucket.
When I chowder that I save what's left to make a D-bit cutter of some
kind.

----------------------------

I do have diamond grinding wheels, and if my machines were tight and rigid
enough to not chip carbide I'd use them.

Surface-grinding the end flutes is really very simple, the fixture sets the
relief angles and indexes in 15 degree steps (360/24) between flutes,
there's no finger stop. The base can be squared by eye on the mag chuck, the
back rake isn't very sensitive to slight misalignment. You do have to
carefully adjust a 4-flute endmill's angular position in the collet and the
fixture's on the mag chuck so you can grind arbitrarily close to center
without hitting the next flute. They are easier if you grind away two
opposite flutes near the center and center-cut with only the other two. A
pilot hole lets an imperfect center grind plunge cut and advancing less than
the radius lets it nibble.

My mill advances 0.100" per turn so with a half inch end mill I advance two
turns and downfeed with the drilling handle. This saves the side flutes for
light finishing.

I made a collet closer nut with a half inch center hole to sharpen stub
length S&D bits with it, using the 30 degree back clearance setting to give
a point angle of 120 degrees.

The 30 degree setting can grind a sharp beveled cutting edge on the dull
tips of end mills. I use it for trial skim cuts on surfaces that might be
hardened such as cast iron or chrome plated rod, since I do a lot of salvage
and repair of old metal instead of production with new stock like you.

I've bought very cheap high quality dull used endmills in a variety of
diameters and lengths and sharpen them as needed if a common size won't do.

I can't easily trade time for money like you because I'm in a residential
instead of rural zone, but instead I can save by spending 5~10% of the new
cost on used equipment I need, like a snow blower, and fixing it. I used my
time to minimize living expenses, to $0 for heat and $40 a month for
electricity, and invested in the high-paying areas the Left totally depends
on but loves to hate. Practice what you preach.

We were discussing that life choice in auto shop class last night. Some
former students repair and sell free broken lawnmowers etc. I tried that
with motorcycles but I'm too much of a perfectionist to make money at it.
Learned a lot, though. The freedom, lack of stress, self-reliance and
treasure-hunting fun of it can be attractive and satisfying.

To me creating advanced electronics was too. I would have worked on the
space projects for free. Machining was necessary at microwave frequencies
where the enclosure is not only shielding but part of the circuit's ground
plane or a resonant cavity. We were dealing with the speed of light over
fractions of an inch.

[Bob La Londe]

I feel like a knob.  I was trying to cut down some reclaimed guardrail
post the other day (a few months ago) and struggled.  I've actually got
a low pitch carbide tooth blade for the 7x12.  Of all the tools I have I
never thought of that one.
I wound up making multiple partial cuts on the big RAS and then breaking
it with a wedge.  Then I had to clean it up and flatten it with a power
plane.
I was banding them together to make a "stump" for my anvil.
------------------------
I've tried the 4x6 as a chop saw to cut firewood that was smaller than a
chainsaw will cut without grabbing. It works reasonably well both
horizontally and vertically unless the branch is crooked and hard to
hold straight against the pull.

I have used my vertical (wood only) bandsaw to break down mesquite for
cooking pieces. I like shorter chunks in the BBQ grill. I can burn
them down to just the right coals for grilling much faster. Its a
smallish Rigid from Home Depot with a Wood Slicer resaw blade. The Wood
Slicer is really an impressive blade. I still split larger pieces with
a wedge and a sledgehammer.


I also bought an inexpensive top-handle

(one-hand) chainsaw that's probably a better and certainly faster and
more portable way to cut up branches that are between lopper and
two-hand chainsaw size.

I have been using a cheap electric chainsaw for pruning trees for years.
I've considered a gas powered, but my experience with that size class
motor is as often as I use it I always need to work on it first. With
the electric I fill the chain oil and plug it in. When trimming the
trees out front 90-110 yards from the house I just roll out my emergency
backup generator. I run an electric pole saw the same way.



My other hand holds the branch or sawmill slab

firmly against the sawbucks, which eliminates jumping and reduces
grabbing, and feeds it for the next cut. Be very careful with one-hand
'arborist' chainsaws. So far I've used it only with the sawbuck frame
guarding my off hand from the bar and the saw held out beside me.
I thought an anvil should be mounted on a wood 'stump' with the top at
knuckle height until I took the blacksmithing class. His were on welded
angle iron frames at various heights, for various sized students, and
all that I tried were satisfactory until my arm tired. The smiths at ag
fairs have portable pipe / angle iron stands for their anvils and leg
vises.

Anvil height is somewhat dependent on the knuckle height of the
blacksmith and the type of work being done. Light detail work is often
done at a much higher height than heavy work. The type of stand is up
for grabs and based on the materials available and the whim of the
person setting up the forge. I image in most of the midwest log
sections are used because they are nearly free. Any firewood seller has
logs from which a section may be cut. I used recycled guard rail post
because they were the cheapest material I had at hand.

To better view delicate work I remounted my anvil at waist height on a
tripod of one 2x6 and 2 2x4 legs which makes it more stable and
generally useful than it was on the oak log section. It may preferably
be lower for a long session of heavy hammering but I don't draw out
metal that way, and my eyes focus best at closer computer monitor
distance. For me higher is better for center-punching scribe marks and
flattening and shaping sheet metal with a light hammer. The anvil
removes the temptation to misuse a machine tool as one.

My son took a blacksmithing class in college as an elective. Of course
he made some punches and chisels from spring steel so those are handy in
our forge... basically the open back shop door and the end of the
welding table for the propane furnace to rest on.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Jim Wilkins
I also bought an inexpensive top-handle
(one-hand) chainsaw that's probably a better and certainly faster and more
portable way to cut up branches that are between lopper and two-hand
chainsaw size.

I have been using a cheap electric chainsaw for pruning trees for years.
I've considered a gas powered, but my experience with that size class
motor is as often as I use it I always need to work on it first. With
the electric I fill the chain oil and plug it in. When trimming the
trees out front 90-110 yards from the house I just roll out my emergency
backup generator. I run an electric pole saw the same way.

-----------------

My gas powered Husqvarna and Stihl have been generally though not completely
reliable, at least as good as my several electrics which have less durable
plastic housings and poorer bar oil feed. The problem with all of them when
cutting small branches on sawbucks X=X X=X is not having a free hand to
hold down the branch when it's smaller than the gap between cutters and
whips around. I cut at about waist height to spare my back and avoid dulling
the chain on rocks so I can't safely step on the branch. That portable
hosting gear I've mentioned is to lift tree trunks to rest on the folding
sawbucks and be cut into stove lengths.

The ideal solution might be a circular cordwood saw with a pivoting frame to
hold the branches. Lacking one or the space to store it, the top handle
arborist saw is a reasonable answer that leaves the other hand free to
advance and clamp down the branch. It's probably too dangerous for general
use.

My property is a mature oak forest up to and around the house so I have to
dispose of dead wood from twigs to stumps somehow, and cutting as much as
possible into lumber or the firewood that's my main heat source is the best
answer for me. I consider processing wood to be my health club. Saturday a
mystic/seer/fortune teller at a flea market guessed my age 15 years too
young.