Fanuc OM C.A.P. question

[Randy]

I'm still looking to buy my first machine. How much help is the Fanuc
computer assisted programming (CAP) that is on the O-M control. This
would be a 1998 control.

I still don't know if I should hold out for something that is more
conversational or just get good at G-code.

I am looking at Mastercam or some of the other lower cost CAM
programs. But is it worth it for a shop with one CNC?

I looked at a Fadal mill and did not care for that control at all.

Comments, suggestions........

Thanks
Randy
Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

[PrecisionMachinisT]

Post by Randy
I'm still looking to buy my first machine. How much help is the Fanuc
computer assisted programming (CAP) that is on the O-M control. This
would be a 1998 control.
I still don't know if I should hold out for something that is more
conversational or just get good at G-code.
I am looking at Mastercam or some of the other lower cost CAM
programs. But is it worth it for a shop with one CNC?
I looked at a Fadal mill and did not care for that control at all.

While the conversational side of the Fadal controller is definitely lacking,
most would likely agree it is more operator friendly than any Fanuc.

Sorry, no experience with CAP...... However, without a cad-cam program of
some sort, programming in G code likely is gonna be a real hurdle if you've
never done it before.

Dont shoot yourself in the foot. Conversational programming is lacking where
any kind of part complexity is desired.

Good luck.

[Anthony]

Post by PrecisionMachinisT

Post by Randy
I'm still looking to buy my first machine. How much help is the
Fanuc computer assisted programming (CAP) that is on the O-M
control. This would be a 1998 control.
I still don't know if I should hold out for something that is more
conversational or just get good at G-code.
I am looking at Mastercam or some of the other lower cost CAM
programs. But is it worth it for a shop with one CNC?
I looked at a Fadal mill and did not care for that control at all.

While the conversational side of the Fadal controller is definitely
lacking, most would likely agree it is more operator friendly than any
Fanuc.
Sorry, no experience with CAP...... However, without a cad-cam program
of some sort, programming in G code likely is gonna be a real hurdle
if you've never done it before.
Dont shoot yourself in the foot. Conversational programming is lacking
where any kind of part complexity is desired.
Good luck.

From my limited experience using conversational control, Mazatrol
is probably the easiest. Siemens is pretty decent. no experience at all
with Fanuc.

[PrecisionMachinisT]

Post by Anthony

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
Dont shoot yourself in the foot. Conversational programming is lacking
where any kind of part complexity is desired.
Good luck.

From my limited experience using conversational control, Mazatrol
is probably the easiest. Siemens is pretty decent. no experience at all
with Fanuc.

For a lathe, mazatrol likely would not neuter a shops capabilities too
badly....

But for milling, I have strong objections to anyone feeling mazatrol could
in any way, shape, or form compete with Gcode programming so long as one
also procures any one of the inexpensive cad/cam systems available...

Also as the workload grows, it becomes unproductive to program or even edit
at the machine controller..

The more competitive shops usually see *any* non-cutting time as a waste
of valuable resources.

=======

Thats it as far as free clues Im givin any to of my potential competitors
for now....<G>

[Cliff Huprich]

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
But for milling, I have strong objections to anyone feeling mazatrol could
in any way, shape, or form compete with Gcode programming so long as one
also procures any one of the inexpensive cad/cam systems available...
Also as the workload grows, it becomes unproductive to program or even edit
at the machine controller..
The more competitive shops usually see *any* non-cutting time as a waste
of valuable resources.
=======
Thats it as far as free clues Im givin any to of my potential competitors
for now....<G>

I doubt you need worry about jb. I suspect all the shops he worked at
(if there actually were any) are out of business <G>.

[Anthony]

Post by PrecisionMachinisT

Post by Anthony

Post by PrecisionMachinisT
Dont shoot yourself in the foot. Conversational programming is
lacking where any kind of part complexity is desired.
Good luck.

From my limited experience using conversational control, Mazatrol
is probably the easiest. Siemens is pretty decent. no experience at
all with Fanuc.

For a lathe, mazatrol likely would not neuter a shops capabilities too
badly....
But for milling, I have strong objections to anyone feeling mazatrol
could in any way, shape, or form compete with Gcode programming so
long as one also procures any one of the inexpensive cad/cam systems
available...
Also as the workload grows, it becomes unproductive to program or even
edit at the machine controller..
The more competitive shops usually see *any* non-cutting time as a
waste of valuable resources.
=======
Thats it as far as free clues Im givin any to of my potential
competitors for now....<G>

100% agree, I was just stating that of the few i've used, Mazatrol was
the easiest. G-Code is simply much faster, for one thing, and you can do
exactly what you want, not what the controller thinks best.

I remember the first H400 we purchased, in '91, Mazak set it up
originally using Mazatrol, cycle time was 3:00+ minutes for 4 parts, we
reprogrammed it using g-code, cycle time dropped to 1:10 for 4 parts. big
difference. Much of it had to do with how far away mazatrol wanted to
pull the tool to index B, and it did some funky moves to get where it was
going that were a total waste of time and it wanted to rapid to a 'safe'
distance away (way too far away) before it started cutting. Cut all that
extrataneous b.s. out, clear the tombstone by 2 mm on B rotation, crank
up the feeds, move the rapids in to 2mm away, and volia`, production!
Those were damn good machines tho, a tombstone every 1:10, 24 hours a
day, 7 days a week, 10,000 RPM, if we happened to not run the weekend, we
just idled them down to 2000 and left em. Put a spindle in it every 2-3
years or so and go on with life.
The last of those machines left the building last month (still sitting in
back of the building for now) (anyone need a good *slightly* used
H400?...hehe)
Product design changes eliminated the need for them.

[ff]

Post by Randy
I'm still looking to buy my first machine. How much help is the Fanuc
computer assisted programming (CAP) that is on the O-M control. This
would be a 1998 control.
I still don't know if I should hold out for something that is more
conversational or just get good at G-code.
I am looking at Mastercam or some of the other lower cost CAM
programs. But is it worth it for a shop with one CNC?
I looked at a Fadal mill and did not care for that control at all.
Comments, suggestions........

Fadal is not a bad control, especially for a newbie. It always homes the
axes (Z up first!)
on a restart, has an online manual and has a lot of features that cost
extra on a Fanuc.
You should get good at G code because a CAM system won't always do
everything
you want.

ff

[Heinz Putz]

Hello Randy:
The OMF part on the Fanuc OM is extra, it has all the regular Fanuc mill
programming codes and most likely you will never use it unless you spend a
lot of time trying to figure out how to use it.
Its not a real Conversational control, only an add on feature.
Its strictly X-Y, not 3 dimensional at all. Useful is the boltcircle
feature, some outside milling of shapes, round pockets, square pockets, not
much else. Its been on the OM since the late 80s, it was an expensive option
at that time.
I made a teaching video for a dealer in Detroit back then and I spent a lot
of time learning it, so if you have questions, let me know.
What machine are you looking at? I just trained a shop here on a 1994
Leadwell 760 with the same control, the machine worked really well, the shop
paid $25000.-.
That might give you an idea of value.
Heinz.
http://home.columbus.rr.com/hputz

[Randy]

It's a Supermax Rebel Max-1 1998 as I said. It appears there are no
canned cycles for pocketing, bolt circles or round pockets. I'm not
sure what type of cutter comp it has.

Asking price is $20,000 it does make a small amount of noise on the x-
axis, most likely bearings but with my luck it's probably the ball
screw.

Post by Heinz Putz
The OMF part on the Fanuc OM is extra, it has all the regular Fanuc mill
programming codes and most likely you will never use it unless you spend a
lot of time trying to figure out how to use it.
Its not a real Conversational control, only an add on feature.
Its strictly X-Y, not 3 dimensional at all. Useful is the boltcircle
feature, some outside milling of shapes, round pockets, square pockets, not
much else. Its been on the OM since the late 80s, it was an expensive option
at that time.
I made a teaching video for a dealer in Detroit back then and I spent a lot
of time learning it, so if you have questions, let me know.
What machine are you looking at? I just trained a shop here on a 1994
Leadwell 760 with the same control, the machine worked really well, the shop
paid $25000.-.
That might give you an idea of value.
Heinz.
http://home.columbus.rr.com/hputz

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

[Heinz Putz]

Hello Randy:
The Supermax of that age sounds OK for the price. Check at least the
backlash if the X axis sounds rough.
All Fanuc OM controls have the same type of cutter comp and its used the
same way with G41, G42.
The pocketing cycles and the bolt circle routine can not be seen unless you
get into the C.A.P. part of the control. In Edit mode touch the C.A.P. and
put in a program number by touching Input, not Insert. A Menu will show up
that lists lots of functions including pockets, etc.
You should check out the machine more before you commit yourself. Do you
know enough about this to be able to put in a simple program including tool
change?
Good luck: Heinz.
http://home.columbus.rr.com/hputz

[Randy]

Heinz,
Yes, I can write a short program. It's been many years since I did
programming, the last was on punched paper tape, very simple stuff. I
did just take CNC prgramming I and II at the community college to
refresh myself allitle.

Canned cycles and cutter comp did not exsist when I did the paper tape
thing. At night school I was thinking hey this is neat, looks real
easy. My first new real world part will be a challange I'm sure.

Thanks very much, I'll have to go back and look at it again.

Post by Heinz Putz
The Supermax of that age sounds OK for the price. Check at least the
backlash if the X axis sounds rough.
All Fanuc OM controls have the same type of cutter comp and its used the
same way with G41, G42.
The pocketing cycles and the bolt circle routine can not be seen unless you
get into the C.A.P. part of the control. In Edit mode touch the C.A.P. and
put in a program number by touching Input, not Insert. A Menu will show up
that lists lots of functions including pockets, etc.
You should check out the machine more before you commit yourself. Do you
know enough about this to be able to put in a simple program including tool
change?
Good luck: Heinz.
http://home.columbus.rr.com/hputz

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

[Thomas Nulla]

Post by Randy
I'm still looking to buy my first machine. How much help is the Fanuc
computer assisted programming (CAP) that is on the O-M control. This
would be a 1998 control.
I still don't know if I should hold out for something that is more
conversational or just get good at G-code.
I am looking at Mastercam or some of the other lower cost CAM
programs. But is it worth it for a shop with one CNC?
I looked at a Fadal mill and did not care for that control at all.
Comments, suggestions........

Unless you're sure that everything you'll ever want to do on your mill can
be done with its built-in conversational programming, IMO learning G-code
programming is the better course.

That way you have much more flexibility, with the ability to choose between
many CAM systems, use the control's custom macro capabilities (if it has
that option), and program G-code directly for maximum control of the
toolpath.

This being a Fanuc, I doubt that the conversational capability is free.
I'd spend that money on programming books and CAM software instead. :-)