Need Help on Hitachi Seiki HG400 Spindle Problem

[Dave]

We are developing a spindle error on our HG400. When the machine
shuts the spindle off as in for a tool change or a tapping reversal,
some times the control gets an error message and the program stops.
It also seems that at that time, the spindle is coasting to a stop.
This problem started this morning. We reset the control and it ran ok
for about an hour and then the same problem. Reset again, ran for an
hour and then error again. By the end of the day, it wouldn't run for
more than one tool change. The program we are running has lots of
tool changes and short cycles. Anybody have any ideas?

Thanks

Dave

[Anthony]

Post by Dave
We are developing a spindle error on our HG400. When the machine
shuts the spindle off as in for a tool change or a tapping reversal,
some times the control gets an error message and the program stops.
It also seems that at that time, the spindle is coasting to a stop.
This problem started this morning. We reset the control and it ran ok
for about an hour and then the same problem. Reset again, ran for an
hour and then error again. By the end of the day, it wouldn't run for
more than one tool change. The program we are running has lots of
tool changes and short cycles. Anybody have any ideas?
Thanks
Dave

Dave, It would help if you would include specifics. What type control?,
What specific error messages and alarms? There are a multitude of issues
that can cause a spindle or axis to shut off.

[Cliff Huprich]

The control is a 15M. We are getting an OT399 S-Spindle Error
(description in manual says " A misc spindle amplifier alarm occured")
The alarm also seems to be generated by a M19 not a M5

Do you have a problem with the spindle orientation sensor?
Dirt in optics or bad cable or ...?

Just a guess.

[Dave]

Update

Seems that the "BZ" sensor could be bad. It sends a signal to the
drive for M19 and ridgit tapping. According to Fanuc USA it should be
gapped .006 from the "gear" it is sensing. Went to inspect it, chips
on sprocket and the gap was .003. Great, we'll just clean it and re
gap. Well, at .006 the spindle drive couldn't see it. Adjust it back
to .003. Ran ok with the test program until we went to 6000 RPM.
Same problem AL-42 on drive. Tried to change the program to reduce
the spindle speed to 1000 with a 2 second pause to let it settle down.
Seemed to work until it ran for about 15 minuets. Local repair tech
suggested removing the sensor and inspecting the "face", any scratches
wouldn't be good. The sensor had a small cut on the face. The
opinion is that in the past someone adjusted the gap down as the
amplifier in the sensor was getting weak. Now it is too weak to send
a good signal all the time. Fanuc wanted 775.00 for the sensor.
Found another supplier that wanted 700.00. It should be here FedEx
sat del between 10 and 12:00. So much for Sat off.

Dave

[Cliff Huprich]

Post by Dave
Seems that the "BZ" sensor could be bad. It sends a signal to the
drive for M19 and ridgit tapping. According to Fanuc USA it should be
gapped .006 from the "gear" it is sensing. Went to inspect it, chips
on sprocket and the gap was .003. Great, we'll just clean it and re
gap. Well, at .006 the spindle drive couldn't see it. Adjust it back
to .003. Ran ok with the test program until we went to 6000 RPM.
Same problem AL-42 on drive. Tried to change the program to reduce
the spindle speed to 1000 with a 2 second pause to let it settle down.
Seemed to work until it ran for about 15 minuets. Local repair tech
suggested removing the sensor and inspecting the "face", any scratches
wouldn't be good. The sensor had a small cut on the face. The
opinion is that in the past someone adjusted the gap down as the
amplifier in the sensor was getting weak. Now it is too weak to send
a good signal all the time. Fanuc wanted 775.00 for the sensor.
Found another supplier that wanted 700.00. It should be here FedEx
sat del between 10 and 12:00. So much for Sat off.

Dave,
If you have the part number a Google search for it is always a good
first bet. You may hit a Web page showing it in stock cheap.

I'd also suspect you have yet more chips, grunge & gunk in there. It
might be worth finding out how they got there, if possible.

[Anthony]

Post by Cliff Huprich

Post by Dave
Seems that the "BZ" sensor could be bad. It sends a signal to the
drive for M19 and ridgit tapping. According to Fanuc USA it should be
gapped .006 from the "gear" it is sensing. Went to inspect it, chips
on sprocket and the gap was .003. Great, we'll just clean it and re
gap. Well, at .006 the spindle drive couldn't see it. Adjust it back
to .003. Ran ok with the test program until we went to 6000 RPM.
Same problem AL-42 on drive. Tried to change the program to reduce
the spindle speed to 1000 with a 2 second pause to let it settle down.
Seemed to work until it ran for about 15 minuets. Local repair tech
suggested removing the sensor and inspecting the "face", any scratches
wouldn't be good. The sensor had a small cut on the face. The
opinion is that in the past someone adjusted the gap down as the
amplifier in the sensor was getting weak. Now it is too weak to send
a good signal all the time. Fanuc wanted 775.00 for the sensor.
Found another supplier that wanted 700.00. It should be here FedEx
sat del between 10 and 12:00. So much for Sat off.

Dave,
If you have the part number a Google search for it is always a good
first bet. You may hit a Web page showing it in stock cheap.
I'd also suspect you have yet more chips, grunge & gunk in there. It
might be worth finding out how they got there, if possible.

You also might want to, once you have the specs for the sensor, check
with Balluff and Turck, to see if they have one. You might find it even
cheaper semi-direct.
We deal directly with Balluff, which is not the normal avenue for their
stuff. I'm not sure who is the distributor.

Same for Turck, although we do use a distributor for some consignment
stuff.

[Dave]

Post by Cliff Huprich

Post by Dave
Seems that the "BZ" sensor could be bad. It sends a signal to the
drive for M19 and ridgit tapping. According to Fanuc USA it should be
gapped .006 from the "gear" it is sensing. Went to inspect it, chips
on sprocket and the gap was .003. Great, we'll just clean it and re
gap. Well, at .006 the spindle drive couldn't see it. Adjust it back
to .003. Ran ok with the test program until we went to 6000 RPM.
Same problem AL-42 on drive. Tried to change the program to reduce
the spindle speed to 1000 with a 2 second pause to let it settle down.
Seemed to work until it ran for about 15 minuets. Local repair tech
suggested removing the sensor and inspecting the "face", any scratches
wouldn't be good. The sensor had a small cut on the face. The
opinion is that in the past someone adjusted the gap down as the
amplifier in the sensor was getting weak. Now it is too weak to send
a good signal all the time. Fanuc wanted 775.00 for the sensor.
Found another supplier that wanted 700.00. It should be here FedEx
sat del between 10 and 12:00. So much for Sat off.

Dave,
If you have the part number a Google search for it is always a good
first bet. You may hit a Web page showing it in stock cheap.
I'd also suspect you have yet more chips, grunge & gunk in there. It
might be worth finding out how they got there, if possible.

Cliff

Spent about 2 hours searching the net for a cheaper unit. No brand
name on it so all I had to search with was the Fanuc part number. I
need the machine running, the longer I look for a cheaper unit the
more it costs.

Believe it or not there is no cover where it is. I might have to duct
tape some cardboard to form a cover. :)

Dave

[bearings2199]

Post by Dave
Update
Seems that the "BZ" sensor could be bad. It sends a signal to the
drive for M19 and ridgit tapping. According to Fanuc USA it should be
gapped .006 from the "gear" it is sensing. Went to inspect it, chips
on sprocket and the gap was .003. Great, we'll just clean it and re
gap. Well, at .006 the spindle drive couldn't see it. Adjust it back
to .003. Ran ok with the test program until we went to 6000 RPM.
Same problem AL-42 on drive. Tried to change the program to reduce
the spindle speed to 1000 with a 2 second pause to let it settle down.
Seemed to work until it ran for about 15 minuets. Local repair tech
suggested removing the sensor and inspecting the "face", any scratches
wouldn't be good. The sensor had a small cut on the face. The
opinion is that in the past someone adjusted the gap down as the
amplifier in the sensor was getting weak. Now it is too weak to send
a good signal all the time. Fanuc wanted 775.00 for the sensor.
Found another supplier that wanted 700.00. It should be here FedEx
sat del between 10 and 12:00. So much for Sat off.
Dave

We have many BZ sensors replaced on a mill turn. They are very
finicky. Sometimes a used one that has sat on the shelf for 6 months
will work when the new one from fanuc wont. Also swapping sensors
between machines will work sometimes. The machine maker says .04 gap.
Wont work. Fanuc says .006. Most reliable appears to be as close as
you dare with out contact. Last time none would work. After 3 days we
discovered that the tooth plate was magnetized. Demagged the plate and
has been good for 9 months now.
Mike