Locking the ladder (PMC)

[Half-nutz]

I just got a new machine, and when the tech came out to install it, he
added a password to the PMC so that I cannot look at the ladder/PMC.
I'm not asking to modify it, but why do I need to have to pay extortion
if I ever need to look at anything or try to troubleshoot anything on
that machine?

Is this reasonable and normal procedure for all machines, to lock out
the ladder/PMC? or is this is a little over the top in terms of future
extortion/service calls?
Most used machines need a peek at the ladder on occasion to understand
some obscure failure.

Especially if I AM planning on adding a robot to this at some point, or
at least will utilize some automation in the future.
Thanks again.
Pete

[John]

Post by Half-nutz
I just got a new machine, and when the tech came out to install it, he
added a password to the PMC so that I cannot look at the ladder/PMC.
I'm not asking to modify it, but why do I need to have to pay extortion
if I ever need to look at anything or try to troubleshoot anything on
that machine?
Is this reasonable and normal procedure for all machines, to lock out
the ladder/PMC? or is this is a little over the top in terms of future
extortion/service calls?
Most used machines need a peek at the ladder on occasion to understand
some obscure failure.
Especially if I AM planning on adding a robot to this at some point, or
at least will utilize some automation in the future.
Thanks again.
Pete

Welcome to the world of " screw the machine owner"

I would call him once and ask him to either give you the password or
remove it, otherwise you will sue him for functionally disabling you
machine. Small claims court would probably work in this instance
especially if he is a long way away...he would in most cases have to
appear at you local court for the hearing. Get a lawyer for more
detailed advice.

John

[c***@lycos.com]

Post by Half-nutz
I just got a new machine, and when the tech came out to install it, he
added a password to the PMC so that I cannot look at the ladder/PMC.
I'm not asking to modify it, but why do I need to have to pay extortion
if I ever need to look at anything or try to troubleshoot anything on
that machine?

I noticed a bunch of our machines are protected with just a one
character wide pw. Try L

Wes S

[unknown]

Post by c***@lycos.com

Post by Half-nutz
I just got a new machine, and when the tech came out to install it, he
added a password to the PMC so that I cannot look at the ladder/PMC.
I'm not asking to modify it, but why do I need to have to pay extortion
if I ever need to look at anything or try to troubleshoot anything on
that machine?

I noticed a bunch of our machines are protected with just a one
character wide pw. Try L
Wes S

LOL thats the one I forgot for Mori
Daveb

[c***@lycos.com]

Post by unknown

Post by c***@lycos.com
I noticed a bunch of our machines are protected with just a one
character wide pw. Try L
Wes S

LOL thats the one I forgot for Mori
Daveb

Dave,

How, where did you collect all the ladder info you just posted? The
operator, programming, maintenace, and parameter manuals we get with
fanucs don't go into much on ladder.

Thanks,

Wes S

[unknown]

Post by c***@lycos.com

Post by unknown

Post by c***@lycos.com
I noticed a bunch of our machines are protected with just a one
character wide pw. Try L
Wes S

LOL thats the one I forgot for Mori
Daveb

Dave,
How, where did you collect all the ladder info you just posted? The
operator, programming, maintenace, and parameter manuals we get with
fanucs don't go into much on ladder.
Thanks,
Wes S

I purchased them, however if there are documents that you want just
ask I will be more than glad to post a link for you to get them.

I work with the ladders everyday so I really need to have them at my
fingertips.

email me at ***@debcomachinery.com if you ever need anything.

Regards and Happy Holidays
Daveb

[unknown]

Post by c***@lycos.com

Post by unknown

Post by c***@lycos.com
I noticed a bunch of our machines are protected with just a one
character wide pw. Try L
Wes S

LOL thats the one I forgot for Mori
Daveb

Dave,
How, where did you collect all the ladder info you just posted? The
operator, programming, maintenace, and parameter manuals we get with
fanucs don't go into much on ladder.
Thanks,
Wes S

Wes, a good way to always have the information you need for all Fanuc
controls is order iDoc's Current and Legacy Manuals
part #44A753018-002R01.

I think the price is about $500.00 (dvd) all the files are pdf's

Regards

Daveb

[unknown]

Post by Half-nutz
I just got a new machine, and when the tech came out to install it, he
added a password to the PMC so that I cannot look at the ladder/PMC.
I'm not asking to modify it, but why do I need to have to pay extortion
if I ever need to look at anything or try to troubleshoot anything on
that machine?
Is this reasonable and normal procedure for all machines, to lock out
the ladder/PMC? or is this is a little over the top in terms of future
extortion/service calls?
Most used machines need a peek at the ladder on occasion to understand
some obscure failure.
Especially if I AM planning on adding a robot to this at some point, or
at least will utilize some automation in the future.
Thanks again.
Pete

machine type?
Daveb

[Half-nutz]

Post by unknown

Post by Half-nutz
I just got a new machine, and when the tech came out to install it, he
added a password to the PMC so that I cannot look at the ladder/PMC.
I'm not asking to modify it, but why do I need to have to pay extortion
if I ever need to look at anything or try to troubleshoot anything on
that machine?
Is this reasonable and normal procedure for all machines, to lock out
the ladder/PMC? or is this is a little over the top in terms of future
extortion/service calls?
Most used machines need a peek at the ladder on occasion to understand
some obscure failure.
Especially if I AM planning on adding a robot to this at some point, or
at least will utilize some automation in the future.
Thanks again.
Pete

machine type?
Daveb

The control is a Fanuc 31i A5
I'l leave out the machine for now, let the dealer/distributor decide
what action he takes before we mention his name, permanently in public.

Pete

[b***@aol.com]

Post by Half-nutz
I just got a new machine, and when the tech came out to install it, he
added a password to the PMC so that I cannot look at the ladder/PMC.

First things first, call and ask for the password and see what they
have to say.

It is not unreasonable for a company to want to store passwords should
a need for them ever arise.

Tom

[unknown]

Post by Half-nutz
I just got a new machine, and when the tech came out to install it, he
added a password to the PMC so that I cannot look at the ladder/PMC.
I'm not asking to modify it, but why do I need to have to pay extortion
if I ever need to look at anything or try to troubleshoot anything on
that machine?
Is this reasonable and normal procedure for all machines, to lock out
the ladder/PMC? or is this is a little over the top in terms of future
extortion/service calls?
Most used machines need a peek at the ladder on occasion to understand
some obscure failure.
Especially if I AM planning on adding a robot to this at some point, or
at least will utilize some automation in the future.
Thanks again.
Pete

Over the last few years very few MTB's password protect the pmc.

One comes to mind is Mori and it uses the same on all machines and is
not a secret. ( sheesh I can't remember it)

Some may not "Display" then it's just a matter of "turning the bit" on
to display the ladder.

PMC Type's SA1 (most common) use K17.0 (Hide PMC Program)
PMC Types SB7 use K900.0

PMC SA1 K19.6 Hide PMC Parameter
PMC SB& K90.6

PMC SA1 K19.7 Protect PMC Parameters

PMC SB& K90.7

K19.7 must be 0 to output to a memory card


There are also parameters that will allow modification of the ladder
on the control itself if you have the full keyboard.

Password can be set for 'Read Only" or Read/Write in any case you have
to be able to at least see it I would raise hell with them if thats
the case.

The above is not a complete list of all the variations of how you can
protect certain functions, if you need any further data let me know

Good Luck

Daveb

[paul]

Post by unknown

Post by Half-nutz
I just got a new machine, and when the tech came out to install it, he
added a password to the PMC so that I cannot look at the ladder/PMC.
I'm not asking to modify it, but why do I need to have to pay extortion
if I ever need to look at anything or try to troubleshoot anything on
that machine?
Is this reasonable and normal procedure for all machines, to lock out
the ladder/PMC? or is this is a little over the top in terms of future
extortion/service calls?
Most used machines need a peek at the ladder on occasion to understand
some obscure failure.
Especially if I AM planning on adding a robot to this at some point, or
at least will utilize some automation in the future.
Thanks again.
Pete

Over the last few years very few MTB's password protect the pmc.
One comes to mind is Mori and it uses the same on all machines and is
not a secret. ( sheesh I can't remember it)
Some may not "Display" then it's just a matter of "turning the bit" on
to display the ladder.
PMC Type's SA1 (most common) use K17.0 (Hide PMC Program)
PMC Types SB7 use K900.0
PMC SA1 K19.6 Hide PMC Parameter
PMC SB& K90.6
PMC SA1 K19.7 Protect PMC Parameters
PMC SB& K90.7
K19.7 must be 0 to output to a memory card
There are also parameters that will allow modification of the ladder
on the control itself if you have the full keyboard.
Password can be set for 'Read Only" or Read/Write in any case you have
to be able to at least see it I would raise hell with them if thats
the case.
The above is not a complete list of all the variations of how you can
protect certain functions, if you need any further data let me know
Good Luck
Daveb

In addition to all the stuff Daveb posted, I would note that Fanuc Robodrill
also uses a password protected ladder. We can decrypt or remove the password
(both read only and read/write) on any Fanuc ladder. If interested, email me
at psevin at ovationengineering dot com.

[D Murphy]

Post by Half-nutz
Is this reasonable and normal procedure for all machines, to lock out
the ladder/PMC?

No it's not. I would be reading the salesman the riot act first, and if
that doesn't get you anywhere I would wait a week or two and call Fanuc and
tell them a disgruntled employee set the password and you need to know the
procedure to recover from it.

If that doesn't work, I'll try to hunt down the fix for you. If it can be
done, it can be undone.

[unknown]

Post by D Murphy

Post by Half-nutz
Is this reasonable and normal procedure for all machines, to lock out
the ladder/PMC?

No it's not. I would be reading the salesman the riot act first, and if
that doesn't get you anywhere I would wait a week or two and call Fanuc and
tell them a disgruntled employee set the password and you need to know the
procedure to recover from it.
If that doesn't work, I'll try to hunt down the fix for you. If it can be
done, it can be undone.
--
Dan
CNC Videos - <http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d>

The only way to undo it is with Fanuc Ladder 2 or 3 software.
This is according to the pmc maual.

Regards
Daveb

[D Murphy]

Post by unknown
The only way to undo it is with Fanuc Ladder 2 or 3 software.
This is according to the pmc maual.

That figures.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Post by D Murphy

Post by Half-nutz
Is this reasonable and normal procedure for all machines, to lock out
the ladder/PMC?

No it's not. I would be reading the salesman the riot act first, and if
that doesn't get you anywhere I would wait a week or two and call Fanuc and
tell them a disgruntled employee set the password and you need to know the
procedure to recover from it.
If that doesn't work, I'll try to hunt down the fix for you. If it can be
done, it can be undone.

I would just stop payment and tell the dealer to fucking come and get it.

--

[b***@aol.com]

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 22:10:45 -0800, "Jeffrey Lebowski"

Post by Jeffrey Lebowski
I would just stop payment and tell the dealer to fucking come and get it.

Not a very smart move, you stop making payments and your just going to
screw yourself not the dealer.

Tom

[Anthony]

Post by b***@aol.com
Not a very smart move, you stop making payments and your just going to
screw yourself not the dealer.

Nah, this is why you hold the last 10-40% of payment to them until you
are happy with the _installed_ and _running to specifications_ machine.
This should be a clause in the purchase terms.
If you have signed the acceptance form, you are screwed though.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Post by Anthony

Post by b***@aol.com
Not a very smart move, you stop making payments and your just going to
screw yourself not the dealer.

Nah, this is why you hold the last 10-40% of payment to them until you
are happy with the _installed_ and _running to specifications_ machine.
This should be a clause in the purchase terms.
If you have signed the acceptance form, you are screwed though.

Should put off signing acceptance for as long as is possible in any case.

Watch them wiggle.

--

SVL

[BottleBob]

Post by Jeffrey Lebowski

Post by Anthony
If you have signed the acceptance form, you are screwed though.

Should put off signing acceptance for as long as is possible in any case.
Watch them wiggle.
--
SVL

*SVL*? Opps. LMAO!

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Post by BottleBob

SVL

*SVL*? Opps. LMAO!

Bob

Force of habit....really no biggee--I''ve recently decided to go
semi-underground is all...not like my intent was to go totally incognito or
anything like that.

Just too many noobs here these days--fucking plain stupit questions, trolls
and the likes....and so I got to thinking.... that since most everyone that
I'd regard as having a long-term significance here should already have all
the info needed in order to be able to easily contact me if the need should
arise.

Besides, ( as you've alluded ) I most certainly *have* developed a fairly
unique posting / writing style over the years....

--

[Gary H. Lucas]

Post by Jeffrey Lebowski

Post by BottleBob

SVL

*SVL*? Opps. LMAO!

Bob
Force of habit....really no biggee--I''ve recently decided to go
semi-underground is all...not like my intent was to go totally incognito or
anything like that.
Just too many noobs here these days--fucking plain stupit questions, trolls
and the likes....and so I got to thinking.... that since most everyone that
I'd regard as having a long-term significance here should already have all
the info needed in order to be able to easily contact me if the need should
arise.
Besides, ( as you've alluded ) I most certainly *have* developed a fairly
unique posting / writing style over the years....
--

Hey, I emailed you my phone number, you never called.

Gary H. Lucas

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Post by Gary H. Lucas

Post by Jeffrey Lebowski

Post by BottleBob

SVL

*SVL*? Opps. LMAO!

Bob
Force of habit....really no biggee--I''ve recently decided to go
semi-underground is all...not like my intent was to go totally incognito or
anything like that.
Just too many noobs here these days--fucking plain stupit questions, trolls
and the likes....and so I got to thinking.... that since most everyone that
I'd regard as having a long-term significance here should already have all
the info needed in order to be able to easily contact me if the need should
arise.
Besides, ( as you've alluded ) I most certainly *have* developed a fairly
unique posting / writing style over the years....
--

Hey, I emailed you my phone number, you never called.
Gary H. Lucas

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Post by Jeffrey Lebowski

Post by Gary H. Lucas

Post by Jeffrey Lebowski

Post by BottleBob

SVL

*SVL*? Opps. LMAO!

Bob
Force of habit....really no biggee--I''ve recently decided to go
semi-underground is all...not like my intent was to go totally

incognito

Post by Jeffrey Lebowski

Post by Gary H. Lucas

Post by Jeffrey Lebowski
or
anything like that.
Just too many noobs here these days--fucking plain stupit questions, trolls
and the likes....and so I got to thinking.... that since most everyone that
I'd regard as having a long-term significance here should already have

all

Post by Gary H. Lucas

Post by Jeffrey Lebowski
the info needed in order to be able to easily contact me if the need should
arise.
Besides, ( as you've alluded ) I most certainly *have* developed a

fairly

Post by Gary H. Lucas

Post by Jeffrey Lebowski
unique posting / writing style over the years....
--

Hey, I emailed you my phone number, you never called.
Gary H. Lucas

Hate it when that happens--maybe I'll get a cordless mouse from santa this
year...

Headin up to the house right now ( there's no beer in the shop fridge at
present )--then expecting to give ya a jingle in just a few...

--

[Epictitus]

Let's play devil's advocate...

* WARRANTY voided by unauthorized service (aka messing around, hacking)?
* Why not complain about not getting source code to Microsoft products?
* Hey my machine stopped working - who's fault is it now?
* Do you leave the door to the power supply/controls open at all times? Why
not?

Post by Jeffrey Lebowski

Post by Anthony

Post by b***@aol.com
Not a very smart move, you stop making payments and your just going to
screw yourself not the dealer.

Nah, this is why you hold the last 10-40% of payment to them until you
are happy with the _installed_ and _running to specifications_ machine.
This should be a clause in the purchase terms.
If you have signed the acceptance form, you are screwed though.

Should put off signing acceptance for as long as is possible in any case.
Watch them wiggle.
--
SVL

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Post by Epictitus
Let's play devil's advocate...

Bullshit.

Post by Epictitus
* WARRANTY voided by unauthorized service (aka messing around, hacking)?

IF I void the warranty then tis MY problem.

Post by Epictitus
* Why not complain about not getting source code to Microsoft products?

A valid complaint, IMO

Also, provides yet another very good reason to NOT use "windows based cnc
controller software"

Post by Epictitus
* Hey my machine stopped working - who's fault is it now?

Well, did you crash it ?

Post by Epictitus
* Do you leave the door to the power supply/controls open at all times?

Of course not...

Post by Epictitus
Why not?

Mostly because chips will get in there, (you silly)..

--

[c***@lycos.com]

Post by Epictitus
* Do you leave the door to the power supply/controls open at all times?

Just on a really hot day with a fan blowing to keep the machine
running.

Wes S

[Bart]

Post by Half-nutz
I just got a new machine, and when the tech came out to install it, he
added a password to the PMC so that I cannot look at the ladder/PMC.
I'm not asking to modify it, but why do I need to have to pay extortion
if I ever need to look at anything or try to troubleshoot anything on
that machine?
Is this reasonable and normal procedure for all machines, to lock out
the ladder/PMC? or is this is a little over the top in terms of future
extortion/service calls?
Most used machines need a peek at the ladder on occasion to understand
some obscure failure.
Especially if I AM planning on adding a robot to this at some point, or
at least will utilize some automation in the future.
Thanks again.
Pete

Is the machine under warranty? I wonder if they disable it only during the
warranty period.
Bart

[F. George McDuffee]

Post by Half-nutz
I just got a new machine, and when the tech came out to install it, he
added a password to the PMC so that I cannot look at the ladder/PMC.
I'm not asking to modify it, but why do I need to have to pay extortion
if I ever need to look at anything or try to troubleshoot anything on
that machine?
Is this reasonable and normal procedure for all machines, to lock out
the ladder/PMC? or is this is a little over the top in terms of future
extortion/service calls?
Most used machines need a peek at the ladder on occasion to understand
some obscure failure.
Especially if I AM planning on adding a robot to this at some point, or
at least will utilize some automation in the future.
Thanks again.
Pete

====================
Sounds like a royal screw job in the making. Have you paid the
invoice yet? I suggest no password = no check.

[Half-nutz]

Post by F. George McDuffee

Post by Half-nutz
I just got a new machine, and when the tech came out to install it, he
added a password to the PMC so that I cannot look at the ladder/PMC.
I'm not asking to modify it, but why do I need to have to pay extortion
if I ever need to look at anything or try to troubleshoot anything on
that machine?
Is this reasonable and normal procedure for all machines, to lock out
the ladder/PMC? or is this is a little over the top in terms of future
extortion/service calls?
Most used machines need a peek at the ladder on occasion to understand
some obscure failure.
Especially if I AM planning on adding a robot to this at some point, or
at least will utilize some automation in the future.
Thanks again.
Pete

====================
Sounds like a royal screw job in the making. Have you paid the
invoice yet? I suggest no password = no check.

I talked to the Salesman last week, They also owe me a motor, cables
and parameters for a 4'th axis. No response.
VERY, VERY, VERY frustrating!!!
Time to go up a couple layers to the National distrubutor I guess.

The Tech when he was installing all that told me, and I quote:
" You want to Play, you are going to Pay! "

Thanks for everyone verifying exactly what I thought of the situation.
Pete

[b***@aol.com]

Post by Half-nutz
I talked to the Salesman last week, They also owe me a motor, cables
and parameters for a 4'th axis. No response.
VERY, VERY, VERY frustrating!!!
Time to go up a couple layers to the National distrubutor I guess.

This is NOT a good sign.

Post by Half-nutz
" You want to Play, you are going to Pay! "

I don't remember this in your previous posts because if I had read it
my response to you would have been entirely different.

If a supplier said that to me in my own shop I would first make sure
he was not joking. If it was not a joke I would have him immediately
pack up his tools and escort him off the premises. I would then be
making some phone calls.

Post by Half-nutz
Thanks for everyone verifying exactly what I thought of the situation.
Pete

Tom

[John]

Post by Half-nutz

Post by F. George McDuffee

Post by Half-nutz
I just got a new machine, and when the tech came out to install it, he
added a password to the PMC so that I cannot look at the ladder/PMC.
I'm not asking to modify it, but why do I need to have to pay extortion
if I ever need to look at anything or try to troubleshoot anything on
that machine?
Is this reasonable and normal procedure for all machines, to lock out
the ladder/PMC? or is this is a little over the top in terms of future
extortion/service calls?
Most used machines need a peek at the ladder on occasion to understand
some obscure failure.
Especially if I AM planning on adding a robot to this at some point, or
at least will utilize some automation in the future.
Thanks again.
Pete

====================
Sounds like a royal screw job in the making. Have you paid the
invoice yet? I suggest no password = no check.

I talked to the Salesman last week, They also owe me a motor, cables
and parameters for a 4'th axis. No response.
VERY, VERY, VERY frustrating!!!
Time to go up a couple layers to the National distrubutor I guess.
" You want to Play, you are going to Pay! "
Thanks for everyone verifying exactly what I thought of the situation.
Pete

Don't forget to include the tech in the lawsuit. IF he likes workinbg
for a scumbag company, he should get some of the rewards.


John