Discussion:
The Need For New Kinds Of Direct Geometry Editing Tools
(too old to reply)
jon_banquer
2007-04-26 01:14:26 UTC
Permalink
When your dealing with non-native solid model data your choice of
direct geometry editing tools leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully
this is going to change because the situation we have now is
unacceptable.

http://www.kubotekusa.com/pdf/white_paper/CPDA%20Kubotek%20USA%20Super%20Features.pdf

IMO, these type of tools are badly needed in everything from
SolidWorks to MasterCAM.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
Bill
2007-04-26 15:55:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
When your dealing with non-native solid model data your choice of
direct geometry editing tools leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully
this is going to change because the situation we have now is
unacceptable.
http://www.kubotekusa.com/pdf/white_paper/CPDA%20Kubotek%20USA%20Supe...
IMO, these type of tools are badly needed in everything from
SolidWorks to MasterCAM.
Jon Banquer
UGS has had this for quite a while now. Here's some propeganda...

"NX also offers unique direct modeling extensions that enable
designers to modify models regardless of their source or the
techniques used to create them - whether they are native NX
parametric, non-parametric, or imported from other CAD systems. By
working directly with any model, NX eliminates time wasted on
rebuilding or converting geometry. With direct modeling, designers can
use parametric features without the limitations of a feature history."

I've used it quite a bit in the past and it works well for imported
"dumb" solids that you want to make "smart".

--
Bill
Proctologically Violated©®
2007-04-26 19:02:50 UTC
Permalink
What are dumb and smart solids?
If I had to guess, a dumb solid is just a bunch of tabulated points, whilst
a smart solid has an underlying analytic formula for the surface?
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
Post by Bill
Post by jon_banquer
When your dealing with non-native solid model data your choice of
direct geometry editing tools leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully
this is going to change because the situation we have now is
unacceptable.
http://www.kubotekusa.com/pdf/white_paper/CPDA%20Kubotek%20USA%20Supe...
IMO, these type of tools are badly needed in everything from
SolidWorks to MasterCAM.
Jon Banquer
UGS has had this for quite a while now. Here's some propeganda...
"NX also offers unique direct modeling extensions that enable
designers to modify models regardless of their source or the
techniques used to create them - whether they are native NX
parametric, non-parametric, or imported from other CAD systems. By
working directly with any model, NX eliminates time wasted on
rebuilding or converting geometry. With direct modeling, designers can
use parametric features without the limitations of a feature history."
I've used it quite a bit in the past and it works well for imported
"dumb" solids that you want to make "smart".
--
Bill
Michael
2007-04-27 00:43:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Proctologically Violated©®
What are dumb and smart solids?
If I had to guess, a dumb solid is just a bunch of tabulated points, whilst
a smart solid has an underlying analytic formula for the surface?
Here is a dumb solids example for a SW User:
Any solid model not created in SW, aka any legacy solid from non-SW
systems, no matter what. Maybe instead of dumb solids we should be using
"unskilled operators", well, that might not be PC enough for the
mainstream user.
SW is doing what Apple has done, designed to be unique to anything non
SW, you get locked into a system when you become dependent on the
information in the model, thus avoiding having to think things out
fully, like working hard. Kind of like McDonalds, don't worry about the
price just hit the BiG MaC key again, see what I mean? The problem with
that is that you are no longer in control, if an automatic blend or
fillet doesn't correctly match the intent and the system proceeds
without error didn't you just screw up the model?

To me if I have a surface or solid model and can't determine what or how
it was made, what radius is present, or diameters, I would just not be
paying attention to what is in front of me. In literally every cad cam
system there are means to query the model to determine these things. To
determine what a radius or fillet might be, there are at least a dozen
common ways to determine the exact radius etc, but only if you know what
you are doing. Smartcam, for example has a numeric database of every
geometric element, arc centers, radii, element length, start point, end
point, work plane, custom work plane, and more. To access any element,
pick the element and hit F7. Hitting the F7 key is not THAT hard to do,
yet SW sees a pm4 model as being dumb. That is simply because SW is too
stupid to read the information, not that it isn't present.
I believe that many newcomers will buy into this "I want an automatic
cad cam system". When everything becomes automatic we will all be
unemployed, but since computers process information and don't actually
think logically, that day of total automation will remain quite a way off.

Instant problem solution gratification seems to be what some of these
companies are attempting to imply. Some folks may gobble it up, good for
them. A .pm4 file, how dumb is that in Mastercam? pm4 and now pm5
formats are native to Smartcam, Mastercam can't read anything from that
file, not because the information isn't there but because it uses a
different format. Nor does Smartcam read Mastercam files.

Here is a question. Take a SLDDRW cad file and open it in any cad
software other than SW, it don't happen. The file dependencies don't
allow it to be read by any other system, to read s SLDDRW you have to
have the entire family of files from SW, their cad file is reading
information from other files. This is nothing new, VX does it, Pro E
does it, and so do lots of others. These products are all becoming too
expensive for the average shop and the support and training is also
quite an investment, that cost blows when employees get trained and then
they leave. You never get the system paid for or the employees trained,
it is an endless upgrade cycle.
Software vendors would love for everybody to play that game, you
certainly can or you can use legacy software and move right on along. It
is the end user's choice to make. In the middle are the file translator
folks, their market is to sift through these formats and lost souls, LOL!

Folks, if you are looking for fully automated model editing, you will
be paying for many many upgrades. It seems like a carnival ride to me,
almost funny how many people jump on it, be my guest.

Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
jon_banquer
2007-04-26 23:40:06 UTC
Permalink
"I've used it quite a bit in the past and it works well for imported
"dumb" solids that you want to make "smart"."

I don't even necessarily want to make them "smart", Bill. I just want
to be able to easily modify them with higher level tools than
something like remove and replace face. "Direct Dimension Editing" is
the kind of higher level type of tool our shop and I'm sure many other
shops need when working with "dumb" solids. (Solids that do not
contain the feature information they were created with.... fillets,
bosses, etc. IOW, the feature tree is blank... just a dumb solid.
Feature information does not transfer between different solid
modelers.)

NX 5 seems to have some new tools in this regard and a new low price.
Does it matter? They still can't market to small jobs shops and you
and I are now both stuck with MasterCAM X.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA.
Joe788
2007-04-26 21:35:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
When your dealing with non-native solid model data your choice of
direct geometry editing tools leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully
this is going to change because the situation we have now is
unacceptable.
http://www.kubotekusa.com/pdf/white_paper/CPDA%20Kubotek%20USA%20Supe...
IMO, these type of tools are badly needed in everything from
SolidWorks to MasterCAM.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
Uh Oh! JB has a new Jihad! Tired of demanding "full graphical control"
over the toolpaths?
Wayne Weedon
2007-04-26 22:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe788
Uh Oh! JB has a new Jihad! Tired of demanding "full graphical control"
over the toolpaths?
You forgot to Capitalise that the right way ;)

My Vid of OneCNC doing multiple work offsets is still waiting for JB's
comments too!
J Carroll
2007-04-26 23:59:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Weedon
Post by Joe788
Uh Oh! JB has a new Jihad! Tired of demanding "full graphical
control" over the toolpaths?
You forgot to Capitalise that the right way ;)
My Vid of OneCNC doing multiple work offsets is still waiting for JB's
comments too!
Wayne,
Post a link. I need the humor.

LOL

JC
jon_banquer
2007-04-27 00:09:41 UTC
Permalink
"Post a link. I need the humor."

Look in the mirror. If you can stop laughing try and figure out the
massive limitations of passing a fixed amount of variables to a post.

You can do it Johnny. Now that you have been relieved of selling
TopSolid by Missler you should have plenty of time on your hands.

How are sales of Mecsoft Visual Mill going? You fail at selling Visual
Mill as well? Would the owner of Mecsoft say you were good at selling
Visual Mill?

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
J Carroll
2007-04-27 00:15:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
"Post a link. I need the humor."
Look in the mirror. If you can stop laughing try and figure out the
massive limitations of passing a fixed amount of variables to a post.
You can do it Johnny. Now that you have been relieved of selling
TopSolid by Missler you should have plenty of time on your hands.
They are in the process right now of contracting a new North American
reseller as their master dealer Jon.
I wasn't relieved of anything. I told them to shove it and their management.
Post by jon_banquer
How are sales of Mecsoft Visual Mill going?
I dumped them Jon. Joe would tell you exact;y that if he so chose.
Post by jon_banquer
You fail at selling Visual
Mill as well? Would the owner of Mecsoft say you were good at selling
Visual Mill?
I never really tried. You can't compete with the manufacturer after all./
Post by jon_banquer
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
jon_banquer
2007-04-27 00:44:53 UTC
Permalink
The owner of Mecsoft is one of the few people I know in the CADCAM
business who is a straight shooter and I trust him. I don't always
agree with him but I most certainly trust him. Unlike you, Johnny I
have never trusted you because your simply not trustworthy. This is
why I said no when you asked me to come to work for you. I did not
trust you then and I now know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I made
the right choice.

I do agree you can't compete with the manufacturer and I have stated
this in writing to the owner of Mecsoft. I have also suggested better
ways to sell Visual Mill / RhinoCAM to him.... he and I don't agree.
So be it. What he and I do agree on is what is necessary in a CADCAM
product and that means total graphical control over the toolpath....
hopefully in RhinoCAM 2 this will happen.

I think your record shows how bad you suck at selling CADCAM and I
don't believe your lame assed excuses. Too many CADCAM companies have
dumped your worthless ass.
From what I hear you can get the job done machining difficult parts.
Why don't you stick to what your apparently good at?

Let me know when you figure out why Weedons video does not show proper
support for multiple fixture offsets and why passing a limited amount
of variables to a post is not proper support for multiple fixture
offsets.

I have made it quite clear in the past that OneCNC does not properly
support multiple fixture offsets... like both MasterCAM X does and
Gibbs does.

MasterCAM and Gibbs are the dominant systems in San Diego, CA. In
Phoenix it's MasterCAM, Gibbs and FeatureCAM.

The client that I had on Phoenix is sorry he ever purchased OneCNC.
It's fucking crap and he knows it now.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
J Carroll
2007-04-27 01:53:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
The owner of Mecsoft is one of the few people I know in the CADCAM
business who is a straight shooter and I trust him. I don't always
agree with him but I most certainly trust him. Unlike you, Johnny I
have never trusted you because your simply not trustworthy. This is
why I said no when you asked me to come to work for you. I did not
trust you then and I now know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I made
the right choice.
You make a much bigger deal of this than I ever did Jon but God bless your
wisdom.
Simmons was right about you.
Post by jon_banquer
I do agree you can't compete with the manufacturer and I have stated
this in writing to the owner of Mecsoft. I have also suggested better
ways to sell Visual Mill / RhinoCAM to him.... he and I don't agree.
So be it. What he and I do agree on is what is necessary in a CADCAM
product and that means total graphical control over the toolpath....
hopefully in RhinoCAM 2 this will happen.
LOL, exactly when do you think that might be Jon? VM 6.0 ? 5 Axis
Simultaneous?
I wish then luck but I;m not in their boat so I really don't care.

Jon. MasterCam Level 3 will be avaliable soon at $6,300.00 . Contrary to
your polemic rants, it's a decent product and when this happens, Joe and
Anita will be wonfering what to do next.
I haven't an answere or even a clue. They might just pack it in. I'll be
looking in when I have time from the side lines and won't care.
Post by jon_banquer
I think your record shows how bad you suck at selling CADCAM and I
don't believe your lame assed excuses. Too many CADCAM companies have
dumped your worthless ass.
From what I hear you can get the job done machining difficult parts.
Why don't you stick to what your apparently good at?
I didn't write that Jon. Keep your attributions straight.
Post by jon_banquer
Let me know when you figure out why Weedons video does not show proper
support for multiple fixture offsets and why passing a limited amount
of variables to a post is not proper support for multiple fixture
offsets.
You said repeatedly that it couldn't be done Jon. An outright lie, and an
unnecessary one at that.
Post by jon_banquer
I have made it quite clear in the past that OneCNC does not properly
support multiple fixture offsets... like both MasterCAM X does and
Gibbs does.
Who cares. If you want to run OneCnc, buy the place. You can then put your
money where your mouth is.
Post by jon_banquer
MasterCAM and Gibbs are the dominant systems in San Diego, CA. In
Phoenix it's MasterCAM, Gibbs and FeatureCAM.
Again, who cares.
Post by jon_banquer
The client that I had on Phoenix is sorry he ever purchased OneCNC.
It's fucking crap and he knows it now.
I'll bet he's sorry about many things. As bad as you claim it is why did you
recomend it?

Jon, Sandy had you pegged years ago so I'll post this for old times sake and
then invite you to a long walk off a short pier.


J

Jon -

You say -
Post by jon_banquer
When DP Esprit 2001 is released in September it WILL BE a much more
comprehensive .. package than ...........
and -
Post by jon_banquer
Among it's many advantages over ....... WILL BE .......
an API that SUPPOSEDLY is fully exposed......
and -
Post by jon_banquer
Also in this release, is the PROMISE of 100 percent toolpath
editability. ------------------------------

Finally, I've cracked. Having read your rantings for the last couple of
years and ignored them, out of politeness, it is time to kick ass.

You know very well that Licom's AlphaCAM was the first CAD/CAM system to
implement a 100% fully exposed API with integrated VBA plus 100% toolpath
editability plus an associative toolpath function that instantly updates
your toolpaths if you change or move or add or delete any geometries
associated with the creation of the original toolpaths.

Licom does not say that AlphaCAM WILL HAVE or SUPPOSEDLY will have .......
We have been delivering the dream for more than two years. Since then, we
have improved and refined what you can do and how you can do it by
responding to customer and Dealer feedback. If our experience counts for
anything, DP Technology is four years behind us - two years behind before
first release plus two years of development since first release.

More than a year ago we sent you a full function AlphaCAM multi-module
system to try out, because then I thought that maybe, just maybe, you had
something to contribute to the debate about different CAD/CAM systems. You
have not even said 'thanks'. Have you bothered to install it and try it?
Our Support Team have not had to deal with any questions from you.........

This posting is not about promoting AlphaCAM. It is about exposing you as a
'know nothing'. Your posting makes it clear to me that you are a charlatan
(or in the pay of at least one CAD/CAM company) and should be exposed as
such. You have nothing to contribute to this NG. Your vituperations and
rantings may amuse some of the regulars, who know that they should take your
pronouncements with a pinch of salt, but you probably cause confusion in the
minds of newbies. This is not what this NG is about. Find another NG to vent
your spleen.

Sandy L

PS I am well aware that posting this will subject me to an outpouring of
your bile. So be it. I've got broad shoulders.
'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn' as Rett Butler said to Scarlett
O'Hara at the end of Gone With The Wind.
Post by jon_banquer
When DP Esprit 2001 is released in September it will be a much more
comprehensive stand along package than MasterCAM, SURFCAM,
GIBBS, etc.... BY FAR !!!
.................... snipped .............
Joe788
2007-04-27 02:03:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by J Carroll
Post by jon_banquer
The owner of Mecsoft is one of the few people I know in the CADCAM
business who is a straight shooter and I trust him. I don't always
agree with him but I most certainly trust him. Unlike you, Johnny I
have never trusted you because your simply not trustworthy. This is
why I said no when you asked me to come to work for you. I did not
trust you then and I now know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I made
the right choice.
You make a much bigger deal of this than I ever did Jon but God bless your
wisdom.
Simmons was right about you.
Post by jon_banquer
I do agree you can't compete with the manufacturer and I have stated
this in writing to the owner of Mecsoft. I have also suggested better
ways to sell Visual Mill / RhinoCAM to him.... he and I don't agree.
So be it. What he and I do agree on is what is necessary in a CADCAM
product and that means total graphical control over the toolpath....
hopefully in RhinoCAM 2 this will happen.
LOL, exactly when do you think that might be Jon? VM 6.0 ? 5 Axis
Simultaneous?
I wish then luck but I;m not in their boat so I really don't care.
Jon. MasterCam Level 3 will be avaliable soon at $6,300.00 . Contrary to
your polemic rants, it's a decent product and when this happens, Joe and
Anita will be wonfering what to do next.
I haven't an answere or even a clue. They might just pack it in. I'll be
looking in when I have time from the side lines and won't care.
Post by jon_banquer
I think your record shows how bad you suck at selling CADCAM and I
don't believe your lame assed excuses. Too many CADCAM companies have
dumped your worthless ass.
From what I hear you can get the job done machining difficult parts.
Why don't you stick to what your apparently good at?
I didn't write that Jon. Keep your attributions straight.
Post by jon_banquer
Let me know when you figure out why Weedons video does not show proper
support for multiple fixture offsets and why passing a limited amount
of variables to a post is not proper support for multiple fixture
offsets.
You said repeatedly that it couldn't be done Jon. An outright lie, and an
unnecessary one at that.
Post by jon_banquer
I have made it quite clear in the past that OneCNC does not properly
support multiple fixture offsets... like both MasterCAM X does and
Gibbs does.
Who cares. If you want to run OneCnc, buy the place. You can then put your
money where your mouth is.
Post by jon_banquer
MasterCAM and Gibbs are the dominant systems in San Diego, CA. In
Phoenix it's MasterCAM, Gibbs and FeatureCAM.
Again, who cares.
Post by jon_banquer
The client that I had on Phoenix is sorry he ever purchased OneCNC.
It's fucking crap and he knows it now.
I'll bet he's sorry about many things. As bad as you claim it is why did you
recomend it?
Jon, Sandy had you pegged years ago so I'll post this for old times sake and
then invite you to a long walk off a short pier.
J
Jon -
You say -
Post by jon_banquer
When DP Esprit 2001 is released in September it WILL BE a much more
comprehensive .. package than ...........
and -
Post by jon_banquer
Among it's many advantages over ....... WILL BE .......
an API that SUPPOSEDLY is fully exposed......
and -> Also in this release, is the PROMISE of 100 percent toolpath
editability. ------------------------------
Finally, I've cracked. Having read your rantings for the last couple of
years and ignored them, out of politeness, it is time to kick ass.
You know very well that Licom's AlphaCAM was the first CAD/CAM system to
implement a 100% fully exposed API with integrated VBA plus 100% toolpath
editability plus an associative toolpath function that instantly updates
your toolpaths if you change or move or add or delete any geometries
associated with the creation of the original toolpaths.
Licom does not say that AlphaCAM WILL HAVE or SUPPOSEDLY will have .......
We have been delivering the dream for more than two years. Since then, we
have improved and refined what you can do and how you can do it by
responding to customer and Dealer feedback. If our experience counts for
anything, DP Technology is four years behind us - two years behind before
first release plus two years of development since first release.
More than a year ago we sent you a full function AlphaCAM multi-module
system to try out, because then I thought that maybe, just maybe, you had
something to contribute to the debate about different CAD/CAM systems. You
have not even said 'thanks'. Have you bothered to install it and try it?
Our Support Team have not had to deal with any questions from you.........
This posting is not about promoting AlphaCAM. It is about exposing you as a
'know nothing'. Your posting makes it clear to me that you are a charlatan
(or in the pay of at least one CAD/CAM company) and should be exposed as
such. You have nothing to contribute to this NG. Your vituperations and
rantings may amuse some of the regulars, who know that they should take your
pronouncements with a pinch of salt, but you probably cause confusion in the
minds of newbies. This is not what this NG is about. Find another NG to vent
your spleen.
Sandy L
PS I am well aware that posting this will subject me to an outpouring of
your bile. So be it. I've got broad shoulders.
'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn' as Rett Butler said to Scarlett
O'Hara at the end of Gone With The Wind.
Post by jon_banquer
When DP Esprit 2001 is released in September it will be a much more
comprehensive stand along package than MasterCAM, SURFCAM,
GIBBS, etc.... BY FAR !!!
.................... snipped .............
AAAAAHAHA!! I had no idea JB had been soiling this place with his bile
for so many years. For the love of god, does this "know nothing"
lunatic ever quit?

I wonder how many different jobs he's been fired from in that amount
of time?
J Carroll
2007-04-27 02:13:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe788
Post by J Carroll
Post by jon_banquer
The owner of Mecsoft is one of the few people I know in the CADCAM
business who is a straight shooter and I trust him. I don't always
agree with him but I most certainly trust him. Unlike you, Johnny I
have never trusted you because your simply not trustworthy. This is
why I said no when you asked me to come to work for you. I did not
trust you then and I now know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I made
the right choice.
You make a much bigger deal of this than I ever did Jon but God
bless your wisdom.
Simmons was right about you.
Post by jon_banquer
I do agree you can't compete with the manufacturer and I have stated
this in writing to the owner of Mecsoft. I have also suggested
better ways to sell Visual Mill / RhinoCAM to him.... he and I
don't agree. So be it. What he and I do agree on is what is
necessary in a CADCAM product and that means total graphical
control over the toolpath.... hopefully in RhinoCAM 2 this will
happen.
LOL, exactly when do you think that might be Jon? VM 6.0 ? 5 Axis
Simultaneous?
I wish then luck but I;m not in their boat so I really don't care.
Jon. MasterCam Level 3 will be avaliable soon at $6,300.00 .
Contrary to your polemic rants, it's a decent product and when this
happens, Joe and Anita will be wonfering what to do next.
I haven't an answere or even a clue. They might just pack it in.
I'll be looking in when I have time from the side lines and won't
care.
Post by jon_banquer
I think your record shows how bad you suck at selling CADCAM and I
don't believe your lame assed excuses. Too many CADCAM companies
have dumped your worthless ass.
From what I hear you can get the job done machining difficult parts.
Why don't you stick to what your apparently good at?
I didn't write that Jon. Keep your attributions straight.
Post by jon_banquer
Let me know when you figure out why Weedons video does not show
proper support for multiple fixture offsets and why passing a
limited amount of variables to a post is not proper support for
multiple fixture offsets.
You said repeatedly that it couldn't be done Jon. An outright lie,
and an unnecessary one at that.
Post by jon_banquer
I have made it quite clear in the past that OneCNC does not properly
support multiple fixture offsets... like both MasterCAM X does and
Gibbs does.
Who cares. If you want to run OneCnc, buy the place. You can then
put your money where your mouth is.
Post by jon_banquer
MasterCAM and Gibbs are the dominant systems in San Diego, CA. In
Phoenix it's MasterCAM, Gibbs and FeatureCAM.
Again, who cares.
Post by jon_banquer
The client that I had on Phoenix is sorry he ever purchased OneCNC.
It's fucking crap and he knows it now.
I'll bet he's sorry about many things. As bad as you claim it is why
did you recomend it?
Jon, Sandy had you pegged years ago so I'll post this for old times
sake and then invite you to a long walk off a short pier.
J
Jon -
You say -
Post by jon_banquer
When DP Esprit 2001 is released in September it WILL BE a much more
comprehensive .. package than ...........
and -
Post by jon_banquer
Among it's many advantages over ....... WILL BE .......
an API that SUPPOSEDLY is fully exposed......
and -> Also in this release, is the PROMISE of 100 percent toolpath
editability. ------------------------------
Finally, I've cracked. Having read your rantings for the last couple
of years and ignored them, out of politeness, it is time to kick ass.
You know very well that Licom's AlphaCAM was the first CAD/CAM
system to implement a 100% fully exposed API with integrated VBA
plus 100% toolpath editability plus an associative toolpath function
that instantly updates your toolpaths if you change or move or add
or delete any geometries associated with the creation of the
original toolpaths.
Licom does not say that AlphaCAM WILL HAVE or SUPPOSEDLY will have
....... We have been delivering the dream for more than two years.
Since then, we have improved and refined what you can do and how you
can do it by responding to customer and Dealer feedback. If our
experience counts for anything, DP Technology is four years behind
us - two years behind before first release plus two years of
development since first release.
More than a year ago we sent you a full function AlphaCAM
multi-module system to try out, because then I thought that maybe,
just maybe, you had something to contribute to the debate about
different CAD/CAM systems. You have not even said 'thanks'. Have you
bothered to install it and try it? Our Support Team have not had to
deal with any questions from you.........
This posting is not about promoting AlphaCAM. It is about exposing
you as a 'know nothing'. Your posting makes it clear to me that you
are a charlatan (or in the pay of at least one CAD/CAM company) and
should be exposed as such. You have nothing to contribute to this
NG. Your vituperations and rantings may amuse some of the regulars,
who know that they should take your pronouncements with a pinch of
salt, but you probably cause confusion in the minds of newbies. This
is not what this NG is about. Find another NG to vent your spleen.
Sandy L
PS I am well aware that posting this will subject me to an
outpouring of your bile. So be it. I've got broad shoulders.
'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn' as Rett Butler said to
Scarlett O'Hara at the end of Gone With The Wind.
Post by jon_banquer
When DP Esprit 2001 is released in September it will be a much more
comprehensive stand along package than MasterCAM, SURFCAM,
GIBBS, etc.... BY FAR !!!
.................... snipped .............
AAAAAHAHA!! I had no idea JB had been soiling this place with his bile
for so many years. For the love of god, does this "know nothing"
lunatic ever quit?
I wonder how many different jobs he's been fired from in that amount
of time?
LOL
I got this as a response from Bill at DP - a great guy BTW -

Dear Mr. Carroll: I noted your recent post (below) and was concerned that
your comment "or in the pay of at least one CAD/CAM company)" may have been
an indication that you might think that Mr. Banquer is affiliated with our
company. I want to make it clear to you that neither DP Technology Corp
nor to our knowledge any person or organization affiliated with us is
affiliated in any way with Mr. Banquer, Whatever Mr. Banquer's thoughts or
claims are or his sources of information are, they are his own creation and
do not come from us. We do not like and we discourage our employees and
dealers from using sales or marketing approaches or claims that use slamming
or degrading of a competitors product as a technique to sell our products.

In regard to Sandy, he always ran a class act and he and I believe he and I
see eye-to-eye on these matters. If you should have any questions, please
feel free to call me (805) 388-6000 ext 141.

Best Regards,
Bill Haas
Chief Financial Officer
DP Technology Corp



Your post of December 9 ......
Jon, As usual, you have things twisted again. Rather than waste much time
writing and restating the obvious, I will paste in the observations of the
renowned Sandy Livingstone. An industry icon you ineffectively and absurdly
attempted to victimize. I believe I also asked you once, privately, to
refrain from mentioning either my name or my business. Consider this a
public restatement of that request. Jon - You say - > When DP Esprit 2001 is
released in September it WILL BE a much more > comprehensive .. package than
........... and - > Among it's many advantages over ....... WILL BE .......
Post by Joe788
an API that SUPPOSEDLY is fully exposed...... and - >Also in this release,
is the PROMISE of 100 percent toolpath
editability. ------------------------------ Finally, I've cracked. Having
read your rantings for the last couple of years and ignored them, out of
politeness, it is time to kick ass. You know very well that Licom's AlphaCAM
was the first CAD/CAM system to implement a 100% fully exposed API with
integrated VBA plus 100% toolpath editability plus an associative toolpath
function that instantly updates your toolpaths if you change or move or add
or delete any geometries associated with the creation of the original
toolpaths. Licom does not say that AlphaCAM WILL HAVE or SUPPOSEDLY will
have ....... We have been delivering the dream for more than two years.
Since then, we have improved and refined what you can do and how you can do
it by responding to customer and Dealer feedback. If our experience counts
for anything, DP Technology is four years behind us - two years behind
before first release plus two years of development since first release. More
than a year ago we sent you a full function AlphaCAM multi-module system to
try out, because then I thought that maybe, just maybe, you had something to
contribute to the debate about different CAD/CAM systems. You have not even
said 'thanks'. Have you bothered to install it and try it? Our Support Team
have not had to deal with any questions from you......... This posting is
not about promoting AlphaCAM. It is about exposing you as a 'know nothing'.
Your posting makes it clear to me that you are a charlatan (or in the pay of
at least one CAD/CAM company) and should be exposed as such. You have
nothing to contribute to this NG. Your vituperations and rantings may amuse
some of the regulars, who know that they should take your pronouncements
with a pinch of salt, but you probably cause confusion in the minds of
newbies. This is not what this NG is about. Find another NG to vent your
spleen. Sandy L PS I am well aware that posting this will subject me to an
outpouring of your bile. So be it. I've got broad shoulders. 'Frankly, my
dear, I don't give a damn' as Rett Butler said to Scarlett O'Hara at the end
of Gone With The Wind.
jon_banquer
2007-04-27 02:29:37 UTC
Permalink
"For the love of god, does this "know nothing" lunatic ever quit?"

I moved here to be closer to you and Johnny. ;>)

Someone needs to show your clients what good machining / service is
all about. ;>) I never knew it would be this easy though.

ROTFLMFAO

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
jon_banquer
2007-04-27 02:22:14 UTC
Permalink
Johnny,

When do you plan to admit you showed our private e-mail to your fat,
slob 300 plus pound Vero Software friend and that is what caused the
Westec problem many years ago?

http://www.recovery.org/aa/misc/12steps.html

See step 8, Johnny.

The owner of Mecsoft knows you can't sell jack shit.

The owners of Clearcut Solutions know you can't sell jack shit and
that you're a slimy character.

Missler Software (TopSolid) knows you don't live up to your hype /
lies and they are done with you.

Even your "new" friend Bruce Closs told me you were no fucking good.

What does Tim Markoski think of you?

Sandy was about as good at marketing CADCAM in the U.S. as you and I
could careless about Sandy and what he thought.

Hey Now !

How about OneCNC...will let you be a VAR? Your stupid enought to
think OneCNC properly supports multiple fixture offsets ... that has
to count for something! ;>)

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
J Carroll
2007-04-27 02:31:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Johnny,
When do you plan to admit you showed our private e-mail to your fat,
slob 300 plus pound Vero Software friend and that is what caused the
Westec problem many years ago?
I did no such thing Jon. I showed him the mail messages between you two that
you had provided to me.
Bob isn't 300 lbs and never was.
Post by jon_banquer
http://www.recovery.org/aa/misc/12steps.html
See step 8, Johnny.
A good step Jon, you ought to give it a whirl when youe meds kick in.
Post by jon_banquer
Even your "new" friend Bruce Closs told me you were no fucking good.
I just got of the phone with him Jon and I'm pretty dure that isn't his
opinion. Hewas probably referring to you. i don't know as I can't herar the
voices in your head.
Post by jon_banquer
What does Tim Markoski think of you?
I don't know. Perhaps he'll post but frankly, opinions are like assholes
jon. LOL, I made a funny, I used your name and assholes in the same
sentence. That is redundant.
Post by jon_banquer
Sandy was about as good at marketing CADCAM in the U.S. as you and I
could careless about Sandy and what he thought.
Hey Now !
How about OneCNC...will let you be a VAR? Your stupid enought to
think OneCNC properly supports multiple fixture offsets ... that has
to count for something! ;>)
I don't know what they suppport or don't Jon. That makes us even as you seem
not to either. The difference is I don't care and you, for some perverse
reason, are fixated on this. Grow up, focus on your job and your life.
You'll be better off.

J
jon_banquer
2007-04-27 02:48:33 UTC
Permalink
Johnny, Johnny, Johnny,

What I love about you is how stupid you are when it comes to business.
They just don't make em any dumber.

You beyond fucking stupid if you really think you can attack me at
will in this newsgroup and not get blown out of the fucking water with
FACTS like your proven track record of not living up to your word and
on being dumped by numerous CADCAM companies because you can't sell
jack shit and meet your quotas. Face it... your a loser when it comes
to CADCAM sales / support.

The people who I mentioned know what a slimy motherfucker you really
are.

After showing our private e-mail to your fat slob friend at Vero
software and causing the scene at Westec you really think I'm going to
let you slide with your lies and lame assed bullshit? I think not
fucktard.

Since you like Bill Haas at DP Technology so much (An idiot accountant
with zero manufacturing or CADCAM experience) maybe you can persuade
Bill Haas to let you sell DP Esprit. After all it's not like you have
a lot of choices left. ;>)

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
J Carroll
2007-04-27 03:36:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by jon_banquer
Johnny, Johnny, Johnny,
What I love
You don't love anything Jon. You are still trying to get over the fact that
your own father, Earl, considered you a waste of sperm.
Seek professional help. Seriously.

:about you is how stupid you are when it comes to business.
Post by jon_banquer
They just don't make em any dumber.
Aparently not Jon.
I bow to your genius.
LOL
Post by jon_banquer
You beyond fucking stupid if you really think you can attack me at
will in this newsgroup and not get blown out of the fucking water with
FACTS like your proven track record of not living up to your word and
on being dumped by numerous CADCAM companies because you can't sell
jack shit and meet your quotas.
I never had a reseller agreement that inclused a "quoya" Jon.
I don't know where you get this stuff but it kust makes you look, well, like
you.

Face it... your a loser when it comes
Post by jon_banquer
to CADCAM sales / support.
I still support customers to this day Jon. Something must work.
Post by jon_banquer
The people who I mentioned know what a slimy motherfucker you really
are.
Name dropping is it.
Figures. Some things never change and you are one of them.
Post by jon_banquer
After showing our private e-mail to your fat slob friend at Vero
software and causing the scene at Westec you really think I'm going to
let you slide with your lies and lame assed bullshit? I think not
fucktard.
I didn't cause anythng Jon and Bob Simmons isn't either fat, a slob or my
friend.

Here is the truth Jon. Have yourself and allergic reaction if you like but
it's still just the plain truth.

"I did no such thing Jon. I showed him the mail messages between you two
that you had provided to me."

It is that simple. You earned an ass whipping and got one. You are luvky Bob
didn't seriously crack your noggin.
Post by jon_banquer
Since you like Bill Haas at DP Technology so much (An idiot accountant
with zero manufacturing or CADCAM experience) maybe you can persuade
Bill Haas to let you sell DP Esprit. After all it's not like you have
a lot of choices left. ;>)
I have all kinds of "choices" and they are all mine these days Jon. I am
even free to converse or not with the discredited likes of you.

I'll leave pimping to guys like you.

Since you so severely snipped my comments Jon, I'm going to put something
back for posterity and to demonstrate the depth of recall at my disposal.
Have a wonderful day. LOL

J
Post by jon_banquer
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:29:00 -0700
Please be careful with what you say on the usenet.
Post by jon_banquer
We investigated his allegations and were not able to substantiate them.
It's common on the USENET that people get all fired up and try to do
things that they normally wouldn't do in real life.
Don't worry about your account, at FastQ, we defend our own
-D
Dan,
Markoski has been doing the same thing to me for MANY years. He sends
the same angry letter to ISP's that I have used when I have lived in
Florida (mpi net) and Connecticut. (Internet 95)
Don't worry about it too much, conversations on the usenet tend
to >be a little more fiery than in real life.
Uh oh....I'm the same way in real life. However, I do know that
others are not.
I do, however, recommend that to let things calm down a bit, you
don't do or say anything about him or to him.
It's hard when Markoski is firing off all sorts of e-mail to others
containing all sorts of b.s. rather than disagreeing with me either
by e-mail or on alt.machines.cnc. When others comment on what they
have received, I feel I need to address those comments.
Perhaps it would help if you advised Markoski to try and work out his
differences with me via email. I would certainly be willing to have
an open dialog with him.... I always have been.
jon
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:51:57 -0700
usenet.
Tim Markoski is the person who sent in the complaint.
Don't worry about it too much, conversations on the usenet tend to be
a little more fiery than in real life. I just had to send you a link
to our AUP for your own information.
I do, however, recommend that to let things calm down a bit, you
don't do or say anything about him or to him.
-D
Dan,
I neeed to know who the person is that it complaining.
Jon
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 23:16:30 -0700
careful with what you say on the usenet.
1: Publish, on the Usenet, information about a person/company that
is not true.
2: Post copyrighted material.
FastQ has not verified these claims, though this message is intended
to serve as a warning that the above mentioned items are a violation
of FastQ's Acceptable Use Policy (AUP).
Please read our AUP, and make sure you are complying with it.
http://www.fastq.com/news_policy.html for news groups
and
http://www.fastq.com/contract.html for your client services contract.
3.User is strictly liable for using their Account(s) in a manner
consistent with any and all applicable Federal or State laws. This
shall include but not be limited to refraining from: "hacking" any
unauthorized computers, systems or accounts; Publishing via User's
Account(s) material that infringes any persons Copyright or Trade
Identity, or contains nudity, obscenity, or libelous information.
FastQ shall in good faith be the sole arbiter of material content in
these regards.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Schnur, Operations Manager
FastQ Communications Telephone (602) 553-8966 x208
4131 North 24th Street #A-110 Fax (602) 808-3611
--------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
--== Sent via Deja.com ==--
http://www.deja.com/
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Schnur, Operations Manager
FastQ Communications Telephone (602) 553-8966 x208
4131 North 24th Street #A-110 Fax (602) 808-3611
--------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:36:35 -0700
John,
I sent you a warning email last week about a complaint forwarded by
a usenet user with the strong recommendation for you not to have
any further contact with this person. You did.
In order for your account at FastQ to remain active, you must not
post any further comments about John Banquer, or any inflammatory
comments about anyone, to the usenet. He doesn't like what you say,
and threatens to involve us in a dispute between you and him.
We strongly protect freedom of speech at FastQ, but with freedom
comes responsibility.
This is your final warning, if you choose not to act like a
responsible adult on the usenet, then we will terminate your account
as per our USENET acceptable use policy.
Please read and understand the applicable part of the policy below,
"Usage When you are using the newsgroups please be thoughtful of
others. Rude actions on the part of any FastQ member can lead to
termination of your ability to use this service. Rude activities
include but are not limited to: spamming messages over the net,
sending junk mail, sharing pornography with minors, using the groups
to insult, demean or harass others, and any other activity that would
be inconsiderate or unlawful. FastQ will do everything in its power
to make the newsgroups a pleasant experience for clients. We ask that
clients do the same for each other."
-D
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Schnur, Operations Manager
FastQ Communications Telephone (602) 553-8966 x208
4131 North 24th Street #A-110 Fax (602) 808-3611
--------------------------------------------------------------
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end
Proctologically Violated©®
2007-04-27 03:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Hey Jon,

Good news, well, at least for me.
The Docs found that STD you left me with, and goddamm if they didn't hit the
nail on the head, when they id'd that nasty little bugger as Banquerichia
coli.

Almost in unison, they said,
Gottdamm, we haven't seen this in years... Banquer must be giving
unprotected head again.... Time to call CDC--again.....

The good news is that they caught it in its primary stages, with no
irreversible damage.
The bad news, for you, is that your vituperative rantings clinically
indicate that you are in the tertiary phase, much like Al Capone in prison.
You are, it seems, losing what's left of your vapid brain.
For instance, you talk all this cadcam geometry crap, not knowing the
difference between ascii and non-ascii files.
And probably not knowing basic geometry/algebra, much less solid surfacing.
Classic delusional symptoms of B. coli.

Inyway, it's good to have you back.
I'm sure it got real boring in whatever institution/asylum the CA taxpayer
put you up in, the past few months.
Hopefully the group home/halfway house you're in now is sufficiently
supportive and therapeutic that you can transition back to society in a
productive and cooperative manner.

So far, tho, not so good, it seems...

At your next institutionalization, mebbe drop us a line, so we can give your
new docs the google links to your rantings, so that maybe they can structure
more effective treatment for you.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
Post by jon_banquer
Johnny, Johnny, Johnny,
What I love about you is how stupid you are when it comes to business.
They just don't make em any dumber.
You beyond fucking stupid if you really think you can attack me at
will in this newsgroup and not get blown out of the fucking water with
FACTS like your proven track record of not living up to your word and
on being dumped by numerous CADCAM companies because you can't sell
jack shit and meet your quotas. Face it... your a loser when it comes
to CADCAM sales / support.
The people who I mentioned know what a slimy motherfucker you really
are.
After showing our private e-mail to your fat slob friend at Vero
software and causing the scene at Westec you really think I'm going to
let you slide with your lies and lame assed bullshit? I think not
fucktard.
Since you like Bill Haas at DP Technology so much (An idiot accountant
with zero manufacturing or CADCAM experience) maybe you can persuade
Bill Haas to let you sell DP Esprit. After all it's not like you have
a lot of choices left. ;>)
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
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