Discussion:
Casting ceramics in rubber molds
(too old to reply)
Michael
2004-07-20 23:31:34 UTC
Permalink
This was sent to me via private email from someone who read what I had
done with rubber, silicone and plastic molds and ceramics (slip
casting). Apparently what I have done HAS in fact been done elsewhere
and even more.

Here is a link.

It seems that a Professor in Tokyo has managed to pour slip castings in
a production environment thus avoiding the longer drying times I wrote
about via implementing a "nonaqueous carrier" that allows faster drying
in a non-porous mold. he is doing this in a rubber mold.

http://www.wtec.org/loyola/rp/07_02.htm

Professor Nakagawa of the University of Tokyo mentioned to JTEC/WTEC
panelists that ceramic parts are typically fabricated in plaster molds,
usually using slip casting. He recently developed a nonaqueous carrier
for the ceramic, which does not require a porous mold. Nakagawa
successfully cast ceramic into a rubber mold, which opens the
possibility of having reusable molds that can be created rapidly using
an RP master.

United States

In the United States, universities, industries, and government
laboratories have been actively working with ceramic materials. Several
licensees are commercializing aspects of MIT's "Three-Dimensional
Printing" program These include Soligen, which offers the "Direct Shell
Production Casting" machine. The machine "writes" patterns for molds
directly into ceramic powder using a binder dispersed via an ink-jet
printer head. The resulting pattern is then cleaned of loose powder and
sintered to provide a shell into which metal can be cast. A host of
other processes are under development, most of which are tied to
modifications of existing commercial systems. Some of these efforts are
mentioned below.

Selective laser sintering of ceramic powders and fusing of coated
ceramics are being investigated by DTM and the University of Texas. Both
Lone Peak Engineering and the University of Dayton are investigating
production of ceramic tapes and use of these tapes in the laminated
object manufacturing (LOM) environment. In addition, the University of
Dayton is extending this process to ceramic composites using both
chopped and continuous fiber reinforcement in its tape systems. Ceramic
loading of photopolymers for use in stereolithography systems is being
developed at the University of Michigan. Argonne National Laboratories
and Rutgers University are developing ceramic-loaded filaments that
will be compatible with fused deposition molding systems, similar to the
multiphase jet solidification (MJS) system being developed in Europe.
Case Western Reserve University is developing the CAM-LEM system, which
utilizes ceramic material delivered in sheet format. Each material layer
is cut by a 5-axis laser cutter that shapes the edge to match the slope
of the part at every location. The layers are then robotically stacked
and sintered to form the part. Other efforts include the program at
Stanford Research Institute to develop a filled photopolymer.

The U.S. effort encompasses the development of ceramic molds for casting
and the fabrication of both monolithic and composite ceramic parts. The
particular ceramics under study include lower-temperature oxides and the
higher-temperature materials such as SiC and AlN. RP fabrication of
ceramic components could potentially open a variety of application areas
that heretofore have been cost-prohibitive.

It is NOT impossible.
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Ed Huntress
2004-07-20 23:41:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
It seems that a Professor in Tokyo has managed to pour slip castings in
about via implementing a "nonaqueous carrier" that allows faster drying
in a non-porous mold. he is doing this in a rubber mold.
<snip>
Post by Michael
In the United States, universities, industries, and government
laboratories have been actively working with ceramic materials. Several
licensees are commercializing aspects of MIT's "Three-Dimensional
Printing" program These include Soligen, which offers the "Direct Shell
Production Casting" machine. The machine "writes" patterns for molds
directly into ceramic powder using a binder dispersed via an ink-jet
printer head. The resulting pattern is then cleaned of loose powder and
sintered to provide a shell into which metal can be cast.
<snip>
Post by Michael
Selective laser sintering of ceramic powders and fusing of coated
ceramics are being investigated by DTM and the University of Texas.
It is NOT impossible.
Michael
No problem. All Charlie needs is a nonaqueous carrier developed by the
University of Tokyo, or a 3D rapid-prototyping machine, or a laser sintering
system.

Anybody could do it in their kitchen. <g>

Have you tried pouring slip into a test mold yet?

Ed Huntress
Michael
2004-07-21 03:00:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
It seems that a Professor in Tokyo has managed to pour slip castings in
about via implementing a "nonaqueous carrier" that allows faster drying
in a non-porous mold. he is doing this in a rubber mold.
<snip>
Post by Michael
In the United States, universities, industries, and government
laboratories have been actively working with ceramic materials. Several
licensees are commercializing aspects of MIT's "Three-Dimensional
Printing" program These include Soligen, which offers the "Direct Shell
Production Casting" machine. The machine "writes" patterns for molds
directly into ceramic powder using a binder dispersed via an ink-jet
printer head. The resulting pattern is then cleaned of loose powder and
sintered to provide a shell into which metal can be cast.
<snip>
Post by Michael
Selective laser sintering of ceramic powders and fusing of coated
ceramics are being investigated by DTM and the University of Texas.
It is NOT impossible.
Michael
No problem. All Charlie needs is a nonaqueous carrier developed by the
University of Tokyo, or a 3D rapid-prototyping machine, or a laser sintering
system.
Ed,
The extended drying time is the only problem but as I said earlier,
time is not a problem, it will eventually dry. The drying process is
evaporative from the surface. What does your comprehension level allow
you to grasp? I get around the only problem by pouring the slip and just
WAITING for evaporation to happen naturally. Simple stuff like
evaporation and gravity shouldn't be that hard to understand.

http://www.drblade.com/history.asp

A couple of direct quotes:
In most tape casting processes, however, the use of non-aqueous
solvents is required since the drying process is evaporative from the
surface rather than absorptive into a plaster of Paris mold.

In the ceramics industry, tape casting is a process which is most
analogous to traditional slip casting. The similarity occurs since it is
a fabrication technique which utilizes a fluid suspension of ceramic or
metallic particles as the starting point for processing. However, there
are subtle differences. Tape casting is usually based upon a non-aqueous
solvent as the liquid system. In recent years there has been increased
emphasis with excellent success on the utilization of aqueous based tape
casting systems.

Maybe some of this will answer you non aqueous question...

http://www.acrtucson.com/products/GelCastingSlurries/
http://www.uniqema.com/pr/lit/HypermerKDBrochure.pdf

http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/wjc/lucshaping.htm
Gelcasting consists of pouring an aqueous slurry of a ceramic powder, to
which a gelling agent has been added, into a mould. Subsequent gelation
of the gelling agent causes the slurry to solidify. Once gelation is
complete, the ceramic component can be demoulded, dried and sintered.
Post by Ed Huntress
Anybody could do it in their kitchen. <g>
Have you tried pouring slip into a test mold yet?
Why do it again? The result will be the same when the slip dries/the
moisture evaporates. To be honest on these 100 plus degree days, a
single day is all it takes for the evaporation to occur.

Concrete and ceramics in rubber molds
http://www.polytek.com/newsletter/developments/23/html/body_page_2.html
This link is to the statuary rubber molds I was discussing way back
before some of the side tracking got blended into the thread. This is
what I was describing to Andrew Werby about concrete ruber 3D molds.

http://www.masterpiecemolds.com/
Mold making is our specialty, using plaster, silicone or rubber we can
produce a mold for the professional artist or the weekend hobbyist. Our
main clientel are either doll artists or ceramics artists, which
generally use a slip cast plaster mold. Although we are most experienced
in making custom plaster molds, we also have worked equally as much with
silicone and rubber molds, including rubber block and case die molds.
Post by Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Cliff
2004-07-21 03:16:43 UTC
Permalink
In article <d%kLc.478$***@news01.roc.ny>, Michael <***@frontiernet.net>
writes:

Ed,
He's been off Googleing again <G>.

Anyone remember Barney Google?
Or "Barney Google and his Goo-goo-googly eyes"?
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
It seems that a Professor in Tokyo has managed to pour slip castings in
about via implementing a "nonaqueous carrier" that allows faster drying
in a non-porous mold. he is doing this in a rubber mold.
<snip>
Post by Michael
In the United States, universities, industries, and government
laboratories have been actively working with ceramic materials. Several
licensees are commercializing aspects of MIT's "Three-Dimensional
Printing" program These include Soligen, which offers the "Direct Shell
Production Casting" machine. The machine "writes" patterns for molds
directly into ceramic powder using a binder dispersed via an ink-jet
printer head. The resulting pattern is then cleaned of loose powder and
sintered to provide a shell into which metal can be cast.
<snip>
Post by Michael
Selective laser sintering of ceramic powders and fusing of coated
ceramics are being investigated by DTM and the University of Texas.
It is NOT impossible.
Michael
No problem. All Charlie needs is a nonaqueous carrier developed by the
University of Tokyo, or a 3D rapid-prototyping machine, or a laser
sintering
Post by Ed Huntress
system.
Ed,
The extended drying time is the only problem but as I said earlier,
time is not a problem, it will eventually dry. The drying process is
evaporative from the surface. What does your comprehension level allow
you to grasp? I get around the only problem by pouring the slip and just
WAITING for evaporation to happen naturally. Simple stuff like
evaporation and gravity shouldn't be that hard to understand.
http://www.drblade.com/history.asp
In most tape casting processes, however, the use of non-aqueous
solvents is required since the drying process is evaporative from the
surface rather than absorptive into a plaster of Paris mold.
In the ceramics industry, tape casting is a process which is most
analogous to traditional slip casting. The similarity occurs since it is
a fabrication technique which utilizes a fluid suspension of ceramic or
metallic particles as the starting point for processing. However, there
are subtle differences. Tape casting is usually based upon a non-aqueous
solvent as the liquid system. In recent years there has been increased
emphasis with excellent success on the utilization of aqueous based tape
casting systems.
Maybe some of this will answer you non aqueous question...
http://www.acrtucson.com/products/GelCastingSlurries/
http://www.uniqema.com/pr/lit/HypermerKDBrochure.pdf
http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/wjc/lucshaping.htm
Gelcasting consists of pouring an aqueous slurry of a ceramic powder, to
which a gelling agent has been added, into a mould. Subsequent gelation
of the gelling agent causes the slurry to solidify. Once gelation is
complete, the ceramic component can be demoulded, dried and sintered.
Post by Ed Huntress
Anybody could do it in their kitchen. <g>
Have you tried pouring slip into a test mold yet?
Why do it again? The result will be the same when the slip dries/the
moisture evaporates. To be honest on these 100 plus degree days, a
single day is all it takes for the evaporation to occur.
Concrete and ceramics in rubber molds
http://www.polytek.com/newsletter/developments/23/html/body_page_2.html
This link is to the statuary rubber molds I was discussing way back
before some of the side tracking got blended into the thread. This is
what I was describing to Andrew Werby about concrete ruber 3D molds.
http://www.masterpiecemolds.com/
Mold making is our specialty, using plaster, silicone or rubber we can
produce a mold for the professional artist or the weekend hobbyist. Our
main clientel are either doll artists or ceramics artists, which
generally use a slip cast plaster mold. Although we are most experienced
in making custom plaster molds, we also have worked equally as much with
silicone and rubber molds, including rubber block and case die molds.
Anyone want to pass Michael an extension ladder?
That hole's just getting deeper & deeper <G>. He's going for a new
record ...
--
Cliff
Ed Huntress
2004-07-21 04:48:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Ed,
He's been off Googleing again <G>.
Somebody ought to save this thread and drag it out the next time Michael
acuses someone of Googling.

Charlie wants to make things that could be described as decorated tiles. He
wants to make them out of some kind of clay. Clay tiles have been made by
press-molding for hundreds of years. Now Michael is Googling off into
gelcasting, tape casting, and university research on non-aqueous ceramic
slurries.

Man, it's so simple. It's like Bob Masta said. You just make a model out of
modeling clay (plasticine), pour a plaster cast off of it, and then press
clay into the plaster mold. You let the plaster pull a little water off of
the clay for an hour or two, which shrinks the clay tile enough that it
pulls away from the mold and just drops out when you invert it. Or, if the
shape doesn't want to drop out, you invert the mold over a towel and tap it
a few times.

What in the heck led us off into engineered ceramic slurries? Jesus Christ.

Ed Huntress
Michael
2004-07-21 04:55:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
What in the heck led us off into engineered ceramic slurries? Jesus Christ.
Ed Huntress
We wandered off because you have spent a week of my time posting about
press molds and 3 Dimensional closed plaster molds when the post was
about making a single thickness ceramic text letter. Very simple.
Ed, go directly to hell with your stupidity and complete refusal to do
anything but guess about what the original post was about.
No wonder you can't get a job writing, all you do is guess for weeks at
a time.
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Ed Huntress
2004-07-21 05:03:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
What in the heck led us off into engineered ceramic slurries? Jesus Christ.
Ed Huntress
We wandered off because you have spent a week of my time posting about
press molds and 3 Dimensional closed plaster molds when the post was
about making a single thickness ceramic text letter. Very simple.
Idiot. Bob Masta posted a helpful suggestion that Charlie use press-molding
to make his tiles, I seconded it, and you jumped in to tell us that you
didn't believe any of it because it was all from Google.

And then you proceeded to search every corner of Google for the most obscure
ceramic-modling techniques that anybody has ever heard of, just so you could
say there are ways to make castings out of liquid forms of ceramics.

What a dope you can be, Michael. You do everything you accuse others of
doing, and then you blame them for doing it.

Moron.

Ed Huntress
Michael
2004-07-21 14:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
What in the heck led us off into engineered ceramic slurries? Jesus
Christ.
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
We wandered off because you have spent a week of my time posting about
press molds and 3 Dimensional closed plaster molds when the post was
about making a single thickness ceramic text letter. Very simple.
Idiot. Bob Masta posted a helpful suggestion that Charlie use press-molding
to make his tiles, I seconded it, and you jumped in to tell us that you
didn't believe any of it because it was all from Google.
Ed, you only want to disagree with everybody except those who stroke
you. You are a fake, you copy and paste to find contrary points of view.
Have you EVER poured a single ceramic mold? No.
Post by Ed Huntress
And then you proceeded to search every corner of Google for the most obscure
ceramic-modling techniques that anybody has ever heard of, just so you could
say there are ways to make castings out of liquid forms of ceramics.
I was wrong to try to discuss anything in this newsgroup with you or
Cliff. That is my only mistake. Talking to a complete closed mind like
yours is pointless. Perhaps another reason you are an unemployed failure
just like Cliff.
Post by Ed Huntress
What a dope you can be, Michael. You do everything you accuse others of
doing, and then you blame them for doing it.
I searched for the non aqueous solvent. The other links I posted were
VERY ON TOPIC, if you know what that means. Look back to Andrew Werby's
questions about rubber molds.
As I said, my only mistake was to attempt to discuss anything with the
likes of Ed Huntress. Your mind is completely closed.
What Dick Cheney said you Liberal sheep!
Enjoy my killfile with Cliff!
Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
Moron.
Ed Huntress
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Cliff
2004-07-22 00:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
I was wrong to try to discuss anything in this newsgroup with you or
Cliff. That is my only mistake.
Other than not having Clue #1?
How typical ...
--
Cliff
Michael
2004-07-22 00:57:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Post by Michael
I was wrong to try to discuss anything in this newsgroup with you or
Cliff. That is my only mistake.
Other than not having Clue #1?
How typical ...
But I have Office...
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Santa Cruz Mike
2004-07-22 05:34:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Post by Michael
I was wrong to try to discuss anything in this newsgroup with you or
Cliff. That is my only mistake.
Other than not having Clue #1?
How typical ...
--
Cliff
Cliff... have you done the research... examined the facts?

Did President Bush and Clinton lie to you about WND in Iraq?

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of
threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction,
ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond
today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be
emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998
Cliff
2004-07-22 08:32:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Santa Cruz Mike
Did President Bush and Clinton lie to you about WND in Iraq?
Clinton did not. Does Bush have a new one?
Based on the Outhouse Theory of World Conquest?

(Bomb enough hapless outhouses from 40,000 feet [to be rebuilt
later, or so it's claimed, with taxpayer money] and sooner or later
you will get the guy that jeered. With luck, perhaps a few Methane
explosions too that can be claimed as secret weapons found.)
--
Cliff
Santa Cruz Mike
2004-07-22 15:49:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Post by Santa Cruz Mike
Did President Bush and Clinton lie to you about WND in Iraq?
Clinton did not. Does Bush have a new one?
--
Cliff
LOL... Clinton did not lie? Where did the WMD in Iraq go?


"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of
threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction,
ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond
today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be
emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998
Cliff
2004-07-23 14:36:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Santa Cruz Mike
Post by Cliff
Post by Santa Cruz Mike
Did President Bush and Clinton lie to you about WND in Iraq?
Clinton did not. Does Bush have a new one?
LOL... Clinton did not lie? Where did the WMD in Iraq go?
Don't try to change the subject.
After all, YOU started this thread.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-22 00:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
What a dope you can be, Michael. You do everything you accuse others of
doing, and then you blame them for doing it.
I searched for the non aqueous solvent. The other links I posted were
VERY ON TOPIC, if you know what that means. Look back to Andrew Werby's
questions about rubber molds.
<snicker>
--
Cliff
Michael
2004-07-22 01:00:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
<snicker>
Baby Ruth
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Cliff
2004-07-22 00:00:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Have you EVER poured a single ceramic mold? No.
Pouring a ceramic mold for slip casting is a far different thing
than slip casting in a mold.
To start out with, make a pattern that will release and then
mix some plaster ....

For someone that claims to have been a "pattern maker" and to have
worked in a "foundry" you seem to know remarkably little about many
of the tools of the trade ...
Why is this?

BTW, Are you divorced? Why & for how long?
IF not, you could have just asked your "wife" about all of this ...
Where did you *really* take those pictures?
--
Cliff
Michael
2004-07-22 00:59:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
BTW, Are you divorced?
Now or before...
Post by Cliff
Why & for how long?
From which one?
Post by Cliff
IF not, you could have just asked your "wife" about all of this ...
Wait a minute, I'll go get some more clues...
Post by Cliff
Where did you *really* take those pictures?
In front of the camera, get some harder questions Cliff.
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Cliff
2004-07-21 11:30:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
when the post was
about making a single thickness ceramic text letter. Very simple.
Yep. Get some clay and a rolling pin.
--
Cliff
Rick Faust
2004-07-21 12:20:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
What in the heck led us off into engineered ceramic slurries? Jesus Christ.
Ed Huntress
We wandered off because you have spent a week of my time posting about
press molds and 3 Dimensional closed plaster molds when the post was
about making a single thickness ceramic text letter. Very simple.
Ed, go directly to hell with your stupidity and complete refusal to do
anything but guess about what the original post was about.
No wonder you can't get a job writing, all you do is guess for weeks at
a time.
I believe this explains it all:
http://www.rockaxis.com/freaks/mp3/Themes%20-%20Mr.%20Ed.mp3
--
Rick
Mark
2004-07-21 03:51:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Michael
It seems that a Professor in Tokyo has managed to pour slip castings in
Ed,
The extended drying time is the only problem but as I said earlier,
time is not a problem, it will eventually dry. The drying process is
evaporative from the surface. What does your comprehension level allow
you to grasp? I get around the only problem by pouring the slip and just
WAITING for evaporation to happen naturally. Simple stuff like
evaporation and gravity shouldn't be that hard to understand.
Crist, Ed... Even *I* understand evaporation, that's why ya gotta slug them
beers down once ya open em. I'm still a little hazy bout the gravity thing,
though. By the way, everything I know about molds I learned from Cliff right
here in this newsgroup.
Ed Huntress
2004-07-21 04:28:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Crist, Ed... Even *I* understand evaporation, that's why ya gotta slug them
beers down once ya open em. I'm still a little hazy bout the gravity thing,
though. By the way, everything I know about molds I learned from Cliff right
here in this newsgroup.
Tomorrow, vee freeze our beer and make ice sculptures from it...

Ed Huntress
Mark
2004-07-21 05:01:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by Mark
Crist, Ed... Even *I* understand evaporation, that's why ya gotta slug
them
Post by Mark
beers down once ya open em. I'm still a little hazy bout the gravity
thing,
Post by Mark
though. By the way, everything I know about molds I learned from Cliff
right
Post by Mark
here in this newsgroup.
Tomorrow, vee freeze our beer and make ice sculptures from it...
Casting the beer is one thing, actually *sculpting* it would get you thrown
outta the bar. You don't sound like yer from around here...
Ed Huntress
2004-07-21 05:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by Ed Huntress
Tomorrow, vee freeze our beer and make ice sculptures from it...
Casting the beer is one thing, actually *sculpting* it would get you thrown
outta the bar. You don't sound like yer from around here...
They let us make ice sculptures in our bars, if you eat all the chips and
don't make a mess.

Ed Huntress
Mark
2004-07-21 20:58:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by Mark
Post by Ed Huntress
Tomorrow, vee freeze our beer and make ice sculptures from it...
Casting the beer is one thing, actually *sculpting* it would get you
thrown
Post by Mark
outta the bar. You don't sound like yer from around here...
They let us make ice sculptures in our bars, if you eat all the chips and
don't make a mess.
Ed Huntress
Yer SHITTIN' Me !!!

Is it possible to make a small sculpture using modeling clay or wax, pull a
rubber mold from it, pour foam into the mold, then use the foam for sand
casting? Can you tell me which materials to use and where to get them, or
point me in the right direction?
Ed Huntress
2004-07-21 21:52:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Is it possible to make a small sculpture using modeling clay or wax, pull a
rubber mold from it, pour foam into the mold, then use the foam for sand
casting? Can you tell me which materials to use and where to get them, or
point me in the right direction?
Yeah, it's possible. You need some compatability information to know what
will work with what.

Some of the most knowledgeable people on the subject are in some online
group that's talked about from time to time on rec.crafts.metalworking. One
of the metalcasters there, or maybe here, should be able to point you to it.

Ed Huntress
Cliff
2004-07-22 00:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Is it possible to make a small sculpture using modeling clay or wax, pull a
rubber mold from it, pour foam into the mold, then use the foam for sand
casting? Can you tell me which materials to use and where to get them, or
point me in the right direction?
See "lost wax" or "lost foam" process <G>?
Use care though .. moisture in your "clay"(among other things)
may act as a retarding agent for the cure of many plural component
polymers. Such surfaces may never "cure".

BTW, Don't keep confusing Michael with these ancient processes.
He cannot find the GREEN button.

http://www.efunda.com/processes/metal_processing/invest_casting.cfm
--
Cliff
Michael
2004-07-22 01:02:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
BTW, Don't keep confusing Michael with these ancient processes.
He cannot find the GREEN button.
Color blindness doesn't count?
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Cliff
2004-07-22 01:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Cliff
BTW, Don't keep confusing Michael with these ancient processes.
He cannot find the GREEN button.
Color blindness doesn't count?
There went the good old killfile yet again ....
Hey, BD .. Where can this guy get some *good* cracked software for free?

I wonder how many posts he missed again .. he'll just end up sounding
clueless and looking like an idiot again ...
--
Cliff
Charlie Gary
2004-07-22 13:26:14 UTC
Permalink
Mark wrote:
<<Snip>>
Post by Mark
Yer SHITTIN' Me !!!
Is it possible to make a small sculpture using modeling clay or wax,
pull a rubber mold from it, pour foam into the mold, then use the
foam for sand casting? Can you tell me which materials to use and
where to get them, or point me in the right direction?
http://www.irishfoundry.com/

Click on the lost foam button, and watch the demo. Button number one brings
up the message to press the numbers.
--
Later,

Charlie

Write-in Vote Dave Corgill for President
Jan Nielsen
2004-07-21 11:07:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
Tomorrow, vee freeze our beer and make ice sculptures from it...
The Germans have a thing they call 'Eisbock' (ice beer) According to legend
it was 'invented' when a brewery worker left a barrel of beer outside on a very
cold night. The barrel burst from the expanding ice, and lo and behold; inside
the chunk of ice the core was filled with a brown, high-proof, beer concentrate
- Eisbock...

Just thought you like to know... <g>
--
- JN -
Ed Huntress
2004-07-21 12:46:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan Nielsen
Post by Ed Huntress
Tomorrow, vee freeze our beer and make ice sculptures from it...
The Germans have a thing they call 'Eisbock' (ice beer) According to legend
it was 'invented' when a brewery worker left a barrel of beer outside on a very
cold night. The barrel burst from the expanding ice, and lo and behold; inside
the chunk of ice the core was filled with a brown, high-proof, beer concentrate
- Eisbock...
Just thought you like to know... <g>
'Sounds like the beer-drinker's version of crack.

Ed Huntress
Mark
2004-07-21 20:59:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan Nielsen
Post by Ed Huntress
Tomorrow, vee freeze our beer and make ice sculptures from it...
The Germans have a thing they call 'Eisbock' (ice beer) According to legend
it was 'invented' when a brewery worker left a barrel of beer outside on a very
cold night. The barrel burst from the expanding ice, and lo and behold; inside
the chunk of ice the core was filled with a brown, high-proof, beer concentrate
- Eisbock...
Just thought you like to know... <g>
--
- JN -
A nice refinement for the home brewers in the audience.
Ed Huntress
2004-07-21 04:25:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Ed,
The extended drying time is the only problem but as I said earlier,
time is not a problem, it will eventually dry. The drying process is
evaporative from the surface.
And that may be a problem, Michael. You used the example of mud drying from
a mud puddle or something. Cliff pointed out that it's full of cracks. It
cracks because of the way it shrinks, and it shrinks a lot. Slip is a lot
like that mud. In fact, it *is* a very pure mud, with no coarse sand or
organic material in it.

Also, slip has to be sloshed around in a pottery-plaster mold and water has
to be drawn from it in the process, or it just runs to the bottom. In a
plaster mold, some will stick to the plaster because it starts drawing out
water right away.

Rather than go into a long story about this, here's something from an old
book about casting clay, from Castcraft:

"You always use Clay Slip with plaster (Pottery Plaster) molds. You pour the
slip into the plaster mold. The mold acts like a sponge and absorbs water
from the slip. This causes a thin layer of clay to build up on the mold
surface. A layer of about 1/8 inch may develop in about 10 to 15 minutes.
You pour the excess slip out of the mold and save it for re-use. The clay
remaining in the mold is allowed to dry. As the clay dries, it shrinks
slightly, away from the mold surface. At this point you can remove it from
the mold. The clay at this stage - firm, but still contains some water - is
called Leather Hard. You can easily work leather hard clay with tools. You
can remove seam lines, cut holes in the clay, add decorations, and so
forth."

If you follow what's going on there, the process first requires extracting a
lot of water from the slip, before it starts to dry.
Post by Michael
What does your comprehension level allow
you to grasp?
So, what's that supposed to mean? You're speculating about this whole thing.
I'm surprised, because you always extoll the virtue of experience. I think
you need to try what you're suggesting to see if it works. My guess is that
it will not.
Post by Michael
I get around the only problem by pouring the slip and just
WAITING for evaporation to happen naturally. Simple stuff like
evaporation and gravity shouldn't be that hard to understand.
Try it, and we'll see. Maybe, but I doubt it.
Post by Michael
http://www.drblade.com/history.asp
In most tape casting processes, however, the use of non-aqueous
solvents is required since the drying process is evaporative from the
surface rather than absorptive into a plaster of Paris mold.
Right. But slip is clay and water.

You're really getting far afield here. Tape casting doesn't use slip. It
just dries the clay or ceramic on a tape carrier, and then the material is
laid up from the tape. That's a very different process. Most of the water is
removed before the tape goes into the mold. Tape casting is more like
press-molding.
Post by Michael
In the ceramics industry, tape casting is a process which is most
analogous to traditional slip casting.
Not really. Slip is a liquid. Tape casting is done with material that's
already become a clay-like consistency, similar to what you use for
press-molding.
Post by Michael
The similarity occurs since it is
a fabrication technique which utilizes a fluid suspension of ceramic or
metallic particles as the starting point for processing. However, there
are subtle differences. Tape casting is usually based upon a non-aqueous
solvent as the liquid system. In recent years there has been increased
emphasis with excellent success on the utilization of aqueous based tape
casting systems.
Maybe some of this will answer you non aqueous question...
http://www.acrtucson.com/products/GelCastingSlurries/
http://www.uniqema.com/pr/lit/HypermerKDBrochure.pdf
http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/wjc/lucshaping.htm
Gelcasting consists of pouring an aqueous slurry of a ceramic powder, to
which a gelling agent has been added, into a mould.
You don't gelcast with slip. Slip is clay and water. You told Charlie to use
slip.

I really think you ought to try this rather than speculating about it. I
think you'll get a result that you don't want to recommend.
Post by Michael
Concrete and ceramics in rubber molds
http://www.polytek.com/newsletter/developments/23/html/body_page_2.html
This link is to the statuary rubber molds I was discussing way back
before some of the side tracking got blended into the thread. This is
what I was describing to Andrew Werby about concrete ruber 3D molds.
Not "concrete and ceramics." Reinforced portland cement and gypsum -- GFRC
and GRG. Read the site you've pointed to.

Portland and gypsum cements cure by hydration, not by drying. They absorb
the water into *themselves*, by chemically combining the water with the
stone. They don't require extracting water to keep them intact.

In clay, there is no such hydration. It just dries, and then it has to be
fired for strength. Portland and gypsum get their strength from the
interlocking of hydrated crystals. You can mix gypsum or portland cement
thick and slush-cast it, but they aren't clay or ceramic. They're different
materials that require different processes altogether, and they require
different molding methods.
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
Have you tried pouring slip into a test mold yet?
Why do it again? The result will be the same when the slip dries/the
moisture evaporates. To be honest on these 100 plus degree days, a
single day is all it takes for the evaporation to occur.
Why do it *again*? You mean, you did this already? You poured slip into a
metal mold, let it dry, and it popped out in a single piece?
--
Ed Huntress
(remove "3" from email address for email reply)
Michael
2004-07-21 04:50:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
Ed,
The extended drying time is the only problem but as I said earlier,
time is not a problem, it will eventually dry. The drying process is
evaporative from the surface.
And that may be a problem, Michael. You used the example of mud drying from
a mud puddle or something. Cliff pointed out that it's full of cracks. It
cracks because of the way it shrinks, and it shrinks a lot. Slip is a lot
like that mud. In fact, it *is* a very pure mud, with no coarse sand or
organic material in it.
Also, slip has to be sloshed around in a pottery-plaster mold and water has
to be drawn from it in the process, or it just runs to the bottom. In a
plaster mold, some will stick to the plaster because it starts drawing out
water right away.
Rather than go into a long story about this, here's something from an old
"You always use Clay Slip with plaster (Pottery Plaster) molds. You pour the
slip into the plaster mold. The mold acts like a sponge and absorbs water
from the slip. This causes a thin layer of clay to build up on the mold
surface. A layer of about 1/8 inch may develop in about 10 to 15 minutes.
You pour the excess slip out of the mold and save it for re-use. The clay
remaining in the mold is allowed to dry. As the clay dries, it shrinks
slightly, away from the mold surface. At this point you can remove it from
the mold. The clay at this stage - firm, but still contains some water - is
called Leather Hard. You can easily work leather hard clay with tools. You
can remove seam lines, cut holes in the clay, add decorations, and so
forth."
On a 3Dimensional closed mold that would be correct, I never said that
wasn't correct.

Charlie wants ceramic text letters, that is NOT a 3Dimensional "closed mold.

What Charlie asked for was a thin ceramic "filled" open mold. Why can't
you understand that, apparently you don't know a one piece shallow
poured mold from a 3 Dimensional mold. I wil take pictures again of both
tomorrow and post them for you. Maybe you will eventually understand
what Charlie asked for. There was NOTHING about a 3 Dimensional "closed"
mold. You have run around for over a week and have never understood what
Charlie was asking for. There will be no "hollow" 3 Dimensional shape
for the excess clay/slip to be poured from. The text will be a single
layer thick, nothing more. Do you think that won't dry out/evaporate?

And there is quite a bit of difference in prepared slip and mud from a
lake bed. Your concept of what Charlie asked for has been wrong ALL this
time, shesh.
Post by Ed Huntress
If you follow what's going on there, the process first requires extracting a
lot of water from the slip, before it starts to dry.
Nothing to pour off from a single piece mold. That is for 3 Dimensional
"closed" molds. I'll send pictures of both tomorrow, maybe it will help
you understand that you have been copying and pasting about something
different from what Charlies described.
Post by Ed Huntress
So, what's that supposed to mean? You're speculating about this whole thing.
I'm surprised, because you always extoll the virtue of experience. I think
you need to try what you're suggesting to see if it works.
My guess is that it will not.
So what you are doing is GUESSING, that figures.
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
I get around the only problem by pouring the slip and just
WAITING for evaporation to happen naturally. Simple stuff like
evaporation and gravity shouldn't be that hard to understand.
Try it, and we'll see. Maybe, but I doubt it.
Again Ed, Charlie was not talking about 3 Dimensionsal closed molds.
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
http://www.drblade.com/history.asp
In most tape casting processes, however, the use of non-aqueous
solvents is required since the drying process is evaporative from the
surface rather than absorptive into a plaster of Paris mold.
Right. But slip is clay and water.
You are catching on now Ed. Slowly though...
Post by Ed Huntress
You're really getting far afield here. Tape casting doesn't use slip. It
just dries the clay or ceramic on a tape carrier, and then the material is
laid up from the tape. That's a very different process. Most of the water is
removed before the tape goes into the mold. Tape casting is more like
press-molding.
Post by Michael
In the ceramics industry, tape casting is a process which is most
analogous to traditional slip casting.
Not really. Slip is a liquid. Tape casting is done with material that's
already become a clay-like consistency, similar to what you use for
press-molding.
keyword analogous, you missed it.
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
The similarity occurs since it is
a fabrication technique which utilizes a fluid suspension of ceramic or
metallic particles as the starting point for processing. However, there
are subtle differences. Tape casting is usually based upon a non-aqueous
solvent as the liquid system. In recent years there has been increased
emphasis with excellent success on the utilization of aqueous based tape
casting systems.
Maybe some of this will answer you non aqueous question...
http://www.acrtucson.com/products/GelCastingSlurries/
http://www.uniqema.com/pr/lit/HypermerKDBrochure.pdf
http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/wjc/lucshaping.htm
Gelcasting consists of pouring an aqueous slurry of a ceramic powder, to
which a gelling agent has been added, into a mould.
You don't gelcast with slip. Slip is clay and water. You told Charlie to use
slip.
Gelcast is a variation of a mold type, I didn't mean to confuse you Ed.
Post by Ed Huntress
I really think you ought to try this rather than speculating about it. I
think you'll get a result that you don't want to recommend.
Post by Michael
Concrete and ceramics in rubber molds
http://www.polytek.com/newsletter/developments/23/html/body_page_2.html
This link is to the statuary rubber molds I was discussing way back
before some of the side tracking got blended into the thread. This is
what I was describing to Andrew Werby about concrete ruber 3D molds.
Post by Ed Huntress
Have you tried pouring slip into a test mold yet?
Why do it again? The result will be the same when the slip dries/the
moisture evaporates. To be honest on these 100 plus degree days, a
single day is all it takes for the evaporation to occur.
Why do it *again*? You mean, you did this already? You poured slip into a
metal mold, let it dry, and it popped out in a single piece?
Where did I say metal? I said plastic. Yes, it came right out.
What effect are you guessing would happen?
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Ed Huntress
2004-07-21 05:08:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
Ed,
The extended drying time is the only problem but as I said earlier,
time is not a problem, it will eventually dry. The drying process is
evaporative from the surface.
And that may be a problem, Michael. You used the example of mud drying from
a mud puddle or something. Cliff pointed out that it's full of cracks. It
cracks because of the way it shrinks, and it shrinks a lot. Slip is a lot
like that mud. In fact, it *is* a very pure mud, with no coarse sand or
organic material in it.
Also, slip has to be sloshed around in a pottery-plaster mold and water has
to be drawn from it in the process, or it just runs to the bottom. In a
plaster mold, some will stick to the plaster because it starts drawing out
water right away.
Rather than go into a long story about this, here's something from an old
"You always use Clay Slip with plaster (Pottery Plaster) molds. You pour the
slip into the plaster mold. The mold acts like a sponge and absorbs water
from the slip. This causes a thin layer of clay to build up on the mold
surface. A layer of about 1/8 inch may develop in about 10 to 15 minutes.
You pour the excess slip out of the mold and save it for re-use. The clay
remaining in the mold is allowed to dry. As the clay dries, it shrinks
slightly, away from the mold surface. At this point you can remove it from
the mold. The clay at this stage - firm, but still contains some water - is
called Leather Hard. You can easily work leather hard clay with tools. You
can remove seam lines, cut holes in the clay, add decorations, and so
forth."
On a 3Dimensional closed mold that would be correct, I never said that
wasn't correct.
Charlie wants ceramic text letters, that is NOT a 3Dimensional "closed mold.
Right. Which is a perfect job for press-molding, as it has been for a couple
of hundred years.
Post by Michael
What Charlie asked for was a thin ceramic "filled" open mold. Why can't
you understand that, apparently you don't know a one piece shallow
poured mold from a 3 Dimensional mold. I wil take pictures again of both
tomorrow and post them for you. Maybe you will eventually understand
what Charlie asked for. There was NOTHING about a 3 Dimensional "closed"
mold.
Moron. Slip-casting is for 3D closed molds. Press-molding is for tile-like
things like Charlie described.

Why doesn't that sink into your billet head?

Ed Huntress
Cliff
2004-07-21 11:30:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
What Charlie asked for was a thin ceramic "filled" open mold. Why can't
you understand that, apparently you don't know a one piece shallow
poured mold from a 3 Dimensional mold. I wil take pictures again of both
tomorrow and post them for you. Maybe you will eventually understand
what Charlie asked for. There was NOTHING about a 3 Dimensional "closed"
mold.
Moron. Slip-casting is for 3D closed molds. Press-molding is for tile-like
things like Charlie described.
Why doesn't that sink into your billet head?
Ed,
Like I posted in the first place:

[
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
Hey Michael,
any experience with slip casting?
LOL ...
]

I wonder if Michael has any new clues about cones by now, with
all his Googling eyes ...
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-21 11:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
And there is quite a bit of difference in prepared slip and mud from a
lake bed.
How are you going to prepare your slip?
Boiled or fried?
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-21 11:30:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
In the ceramics industry, tape casting is a process which is most
analogous to traditional slip casting.
Not really. Slip is a liquid. Tape casting is done with material that's
already become a clay-like consistency, similar to what you use for
press-molding.
keyword analogous, you missed it.
Actually, as one of the major products is clay flowerpots,
it's probably transfer molding ... <G>.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-21 11:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
Why do it *again*? You mean, you did this already? You poured slip into a
metal mold, let it dry, and it popped out in a single piece?
Where did I say metal? I said plastic. Yes, it came right out.
Notice that he avoided the "single piece" bit ... but it could,
depending on the plastic, it's surface condition (nice & smooth),
the thickness, the drying time, the size ... how un-dry it still is <G> ..
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-21 11:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
If you follow what's going on there, the process first requires extracting
a
Post by Ed Huntress
lot of water from the slip, before it starts to dry.
Nothing to pour off from a single piece mold. That is for 3 Dimensional
"closed" molds.
Actually, if you measure your slip correctly & shake/tumble it in the
plaster mold there remains nothing to pour off ....
But I keep forgetting ... you don't know what any of this is about.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-21 11:30:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
The similarity occurs since it is
a fabrication technique which utilizes a fluid suspension of ceramic or
metallic particles as the starting point for processing. However, there
are subtle differences. Tape casting is usually based upon a non-aqueous
solvent as the liquid system. In recent years there has been increased
emphasis with excellent success on the utilization of aqueous based tape
casting systems.
Maybe some of this will answer you non aqueous question...
http://www.acrtucson.com/products/GelCastingSlurries/
http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/wjc/lucshaping.htm
Gelcasting consists of pouring an aqueous slurry of a ceramic powder, to
which a gelling agent has been added, into a mould.
You don't gelcast with slip. Slip is clay and water. You told Charlie to
use
Post by Ed Huntress
slip.
Gelcast is a variation of a mold type, I didn't mean to confuse you Ed.
What is this? Moron Central?

A) It's used only to pre-form fused ceramic powders (NOT clays) to
near-net shape for sintering. Result: Technical ceramics, like a
Carbide insert or tool.

B) It's a burn-out binder.

C) Now, tell us again about "a variation of a mold type" & slip casting.
--
Cliff
Ed Huntress
2004-07-21 12:58:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
You don't gelcast with slip. Slip is clay and water. You told Charlie to
use
Post by Ed Huntress
slip.
Gelcast is a variation of a mold type, I didn't mean to confuse you Ed.
What is this? Moron Central?
Yeah, The Lone Ranger and Tonto are back in action. Pretty soon they'll have
Charlie making his tiles out of engineering ceramics, self-sintered in a
vacuum furnace. <g>

BTW, the post from Michael that you're responding to here doesn't show up on
my server. I have no idea what he said.

Ed Huntress
Cliff
2004-07-21 13:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Cliff
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
You don't gelcast with slip. Slip is clay and water. You told Charlie
to
Post by Cliff
Post by Michael
use
Post by Ed Huntress
slip.
Gelcast is a variation of a mold type, I didn't mean to confuse you Ed.
What is this? Moron Central?
Yeah, The Lone Ranger and Tonto are back in action. Pretty soon they'll have
Charlie making his tiles out of engineering ceramics, self-sintered in a
vacuum furnace. <g>
BTW, the post from Michael that you're responding to here doesn't show up on
my server. I have no idea what he said.
It was all pretty funny. Look in your mailbox.
--
Cliff
Rick Faust
2004-07-21 13:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
It was all pretty funny. Look in your mailbox.
Sweethearts exchanging emails. Ain't that nice! <smooch(smack)>
--
Rick
Michael
2004-07-21 14:48:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick Faust
Post by Cliff
It was all pretty funny. Look in your mailbox.
Sweethearts exchanging emails. Ain't that nice! <smooch(smack)>
Actually by now Charlies cost will skyrocket. I was somewhat
disappointed to find that what Charlie was initially describing is now
actually a production job. All of my responses were based on Charlies
suggestion that this was a "one time quickie" project, today in one of
Charlie's posts I read that this will be now an ongoing production job.
This HUGE difference in representation of the desired mold etc certainly
plays large into what the solution would have been. If Charlie had been
straight forward and had described setting up a production operation, my
suggestion would have been entirely different. This is yet another
snookered issue now. I clearly stated several times that Charlie
described a "one time" set of text letters. Maybe a couple of pours at
the most, now Charlie is describing an ENTIRELY different production setup.
Hey Charlie, why don't YOU clear this up since it is now up to a
production mold setup vs a "freebie" job? Honesty would never permit Ed
or Cliff to note that what was originally stated was never what was
desired. More bait and switch is what this looks like to me. Perhaps a
3 way tag team? And yes, this is the TRUE way of liberals.
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Guido
2004-07-21 18:37:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Hey Charlie, why don't YOU clear this up since it is now up to a
production mold setup vs a "freebie" job? Honesty would never permit Ed
or Cliff to note that what was originally stated was never what was
desired. More bait and switch is what this looks like to me. Perhaps a
3 way tag team? And yes, this is the TRUE way of liberals.
From 07/13/2004:

"The parts I want are small, so a mold made of
rigid materials that comes apart all around the sides
would be a huge PITA for the quantities I want.
Especially if there are twenty six of them."

"I need 5 of each letter and five blanks to make a set,
which prompted me to look into molding them a lot at a
time. I was envisioning a large latex or silicone mold
with at least seven cavities per tile needed, or 189
cavities total, the extras added in to account for
breakage."

so I guess your right, Charlie talked about 'a huge PITA for
the quantities', 'make a set', 'molding them a lot at a
time', and 'a mold with 189 cavities', there is no mention
of production in any of this.
Cliff
2004-07-22 00:43:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
More bait and switch is what this looks like to me.
Anybody have some good pics of idiots?
--
Cliff
Michael
2004-07-22 01:29:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Post by Michael
More bait and switch is what this looks like to me.
Anybody have some good pics of idiots?
here you go......
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/girlie-men.html

Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Gunner
2004-07-22 04:13:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Cliff
Post by Michael
More bait and switch is what this looks like to me.
Anybody have some good pics of idiots?
here you go......
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/girlie-men.html
Michael
Geezus...damned sure they are gonna get the San Francisco vote....

Swishhhhhhhhh


Gunner


"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability,
accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose
and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee,
imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any
particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or
responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect
to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by
any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it
into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts
that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other
agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within
five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or
by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron
who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece
of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a
bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'
Michael
2004-07-22 14:00:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by Michael
Post by Cliff
Anybody have some good pics of idiots?
here you go......
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/girlie-men.html
Michael
Geezus...damned sure they are gonna get the San Francisco vote....
Swishhhhhhhhh
pathetic isn't it?
They make a really sweet touchy feely pair, sooo sensitive to the
liberal needs.
And then there is the sell out picture of Kerry giving the Black Power
fist. What a sellout, he must be having a 60's flashback. I'll bet that
the NAACP's Mfume hangs out at Kerry's house too. Kerry want's to be the
second Black US President. Clinton was the first.
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Cliff
2004-07-23 06:38:27 UTC
Permalink
Kerry
Michael's really runing scared ....
--
Cliff
Charlie Gary
2004-07-22 02:08:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Rick Faust
Post by Cliff
It was all pretty funny. Look in your mailbox.
Sweethearts exchanging emails. Ain't that nice! <smooch(smack)>
Actually by now Charlies cost will skyrocket. I was somewhat
disappointed to find that what Charlie was initially describing is now
actually a production job. All of my responses were based on Charlies
suggestion that this was a "one time quickie" project, today in one of
Charlie's posts I read that this will be now an ongoing production
job. This HUGE difference in representation of the desired mold etc
certainly plays large into what the solution would have been. If
Charlie had been straight forward and had described setting up a
production operation, my suggestion would have been entirely
different. This is yet another snookered issue now. I clearly stated
several times that Charlie
described a "one time" set of text letters. Maybe a couple of pours at
the most, now Charlie is describing an ENTIRELY different production
setup. Hey Charlie, why don't YOU clear this up since it is now up
to a production mold setup vs a "freebie" job? Honesty would never
permit Ed
or Cliff to note that what was originally stated was never what was
desired. More bait and switch is what this looks like to me. Perhaps
a 3 way tag team? And yes, this is the TRUE way of liberals.
Michael
OK,
Here's where I step up and say "Enough already". Michael, if you
seriously think I pulled a bait and switch or secret tag team on you, then
we've had a lack of communication somewhere. That's not my style. I began
by asking about slip casting with a non-pourous mold. At this point it was
all purely research into a process. I don't know how many posts it took
before the train wreck began, but that was never anything I intended to
create. Questions came up along the way. Several people offered up
different solutions to the problem. I looked at each one with an open mind,
and tried really hard to filter out all the bullshit that was being slung.
I don't normally do this, but today I'm going to name names. I got e-mails
from Ed, Michael, Andrew Werby and Cliff. Each one contained relevant
information, and I'm convinced each person who sent e-mail to me reguarding
this subject had something of value to add to my knowledge base. For that I
want to thank each of you for taking the time to help me. Michael, I also
want to thank you for offering to cast letters. Here's where I say, Hey
bud, simmer down a minute and relax. I was never going to send you a mold
and expect you to cast letters for free every day. These are not a one-time
thing. I never said they were, and I truly feel bad for having somehow
misled you into thinking they were. I had every intention of contacting you
before anything happened and asking how you or your wife would feel about
doing these on a recurring basis. I even was wondering if the thought had
crossed your mind to maybe offer up a sample batch for free to show what
could be produced. You're a businessman, so I don't think that thought is
totally out in left field, given your wife does this kind of thing for a
living. My gut tells me you were offering up a favor, but the other could
have been what happened. Could have been. But I didn't have the chance to
communicate that to you before a seed of deception was planted in your
thoughts. So here I am, typing a post for all to see.
Is there any dirty laundry here? I don't think so. Was there an
assumption made somewhere? I think so, and I think there was more than one,
made by more than one person. Most likely made by people who are really
busy, and don't have time to devote four or five hours a day to e-mail and
read news groups. What's our next step here? Am I still the bad guy?
--
Later,

Charlie
Michael
2004-07-22 02:47:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Gary
OK,
Here's where I step up and say "Enough already". Michael, if you
seriously think I pulled a bait and switch or secret tag team on you,
Actually from the private emails we exchanged I think you can see that
the "tag team" comment didn't include you. Too often there is a piling
on that happens in here, I don't think I would have to name names on
that one. Sorry if my message sounded like you were art of a group
effort, it wasn't meant that way at all. I rarely exchange private email
with newsgroup members but there are several who I emailed and my tone
in private email is never defensive as it is in here.

then
Post by Charlie Gary
we've had a lack of communication somewhere. That's not my style. I began
by asking about slip casting with a non-pourous mold. At this point it was
all purely research into a process. I don't know how many posts it took
before the train wreck began, but that was never anything I intended to
create. Questions came up along the way. Several people offered up
different solutions to the problem. I looked at each one with an open mind,
and tried really hard to filter out all the bullshit that was being slung.
I didn't sling any bullshit in my email to you did I? It was a very
genuine offer. The oneupmanship and continued putdowns from two
individuals in here escalated things, but that is nothing new is it?
Post by Charlie Gary
Here's where I say, Hey
bud, simmer down a minute and relax.
When someone makes a genuine offer to do something to help another
person why is it deemed as a bad thing by some in here. I think I was
called an asshole and an idiot by Cliff and Ed about a hundred times. I
mostly didn't respond to Cliff's name calling, Ed is another matter. To
be honest I extended a "peace offering" to Ed late today via private
email, so far he has ignored the email. FWIW, I did the same thing in
private email with Ed over a month ago when he criticized my wife for no
reason at the time. I don't know what Ed's problem is. Obviously this
started months ago, if Ed wanted to "get along" we already would have
the problem behind us. It seems to me that Ed simply likes argument.
Post by Charlie Gary
I was never going to send you a mold
and expect you to cast letters for free every day. These are not a one-time
thing. I never said they were, and I truly feel bad for having somehow
misled you into thinking they were.
The misunderstanding might have been partly mine.
Post by Charlie Gary
I had every intention of contacting you
before anything happened and asking how you or your wife would feel about
doing these on a recurring basis. I even was wondering if the thought had
crossed your mind to maybe offer up a sample batch for free to show what
could be produced.
The offer still stands, I am always as good as my word. I would like to
pour the parts, fire them, glazed if you like at no cost. For an honest
experience I would like to photograph and document the entire process
and post the results for everyone to make their own decisions. To me,
that would be the best resolution of the whole matter. Anybody can say
anything and too often practical applications don't get to be seen in
public. I would like to show how this can be done and let Cliff and Ed
view the results. We may all be enlightened by doing this.
Post by Charlie Gary
You're a businessman, so I don't think that thought is
totally out in left field, given your wife does this kind of thing for a
living.
Charlie,
My wife is a manager at an area mental health facility. She
understands me well :) And No, I am not crazy. Ceramics is a hobby for
my wife but a full time business for my oldest daughter who runs her
pottery business.
Post by Charlie Gary
My gut tells me you were offering up a favor, but the other could
have been what happened. Could have been. But I didn't have the chance to
communicate that to you before a seed of deception was planted in your
thoughts.
I did feel that you were being steered into a direction for vindictive
reasons by Cliff and Ed. It's no secret that Cliff has a taste for
spoiling things for others, Ed, I just don't know what his motivation is.
Post by Charlie Gary
So here I am, typing a post for all to see.
Yep, and I am giving an honest reply.
Post by Charlie Gary
Is there any dirty laundry here?
I don't think so.
On your part I don't think so either.
Post by Charlie Gary
Was there an
assumption made somewhere?
There have been lots of assumptions made from all directions. Mostly
wrong I hope.
Post by Charlie Gary
I think so, and I think there was more than one,
made by more than one person. Most likely made by people who are really
busy, and don't have time to devote four or five hours a day to e-mail and
read news groups.
What's our next step here?
My offer stands, I never backup on a business offer. In fact, the people
who really know me, know that I will bend over backwards to deliver what
I say I can deliver.
Post by Charlie Gary
Am I still the bad guy?
You never were, sorry that the tag team comment came across badly, that
wasn't the intention.
It would suit me for both of these guys to stop poking at me, if they
could bear the thought, I would gladly reciprocate. A peace offering is
extended on my part if these two guys could bear it.
All this bickering sucks and has grown extremely old.
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Cliff
2004-07-22 08:32:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
I rarely exchange private email
with newsgroup members but there are several who I emailed and my tone
in private email is never defensive as it is in here.
<snicker>
Post by Michael
Ed is another matter. To
be honest I extended a "peace offering" to Ed late today via private
email, so far he has ignored the email. FWIW, I did the same thing in
private email with Ed over a month ago when he criticized my wife for no
reason at the time. I don't know what Ed's problem is.
Perhaps your Email goes back down the rat hole? Like Email to
you does?
Post by Michael
Obviously this
started months ago, if Ed wanted to "get along" we already would have
the problem behind us. It seems to me that Ed simply likes argument.
I think he likes his facts correct, as do I and many others.
Some of us can smell lousy BS artists.
Post by Michael
The offer still stands
His claimed "wife" would probably get the work assignment .. probably
as quite a shocker .. as we know by now that Michael knows next to
nothing about it.
Post by Michael
For an honest
experience I would like to photograph and document the entire process
Michael Moore has the same name and has given him ideas ...
Post by Michael
My wife is a manager at an area mental health facility. She
understands me well :)
Can Rick move in too?
Post by Michael
It would suit me for both of these guys to stop poking at me, if they
could bear the thought, I would gladly reciprocate.
Then stop saying silly things and think & pay attention.
Winger's Disease has you bad.
--
Cliff
Michael
2004-07-22 14:05:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Post by Michael
I rarely exchange private email
with newsgroup members but there are several who I emailed and my tone
in private email is never defensive as it is in here.
<snicker>
Post by Michael
Ed is another matter. To
be honest I extended a "peace offering" to Ed late today via private
email, so far he has ignored the email. FWIW, I did the same thing in
private email with Ed over a month ago when he criticized my wife for no
reason at the time. I don't know what Ed's problem is.
Perhaps your Email goes back down the rat hole? Like Email to
you does?
Post by Michael
Obviously this
started months ago, if Ed wanted to "get along" we already would have
the problem behind us. It seems to me that Ed simply likes argument.
I think he likes his facts correct, as do I and many others.
Some of us can smell lousy BS artists.
Post by Michael
The offer still stands
His claimed "wife" would probably get the work assignment .. probably
as quite a shocker .. as we know by now that Michael knows next to
nothing about it.
Post by Michael
For an honest
experience I would like to photograph and document the entire process
Michael Moore has the same name and has given him ideas ...
Post by Michael
My wife is a manager at an area mental health facility. She
understands me well :)
Can Rick move in too?
Post by Michael
It would suit me for both of these guys to stop poking at me, if they
could bear the thought, I would gladly reciprocate.
Then stop saying silly things and think & pay attention.
Winger's Disease has you bad.
Well, I offered to take the higher road Cliff. It is obvious that you
have no desire to do anything but continue to do what you do.
Sad.
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Ed Huntress
2004-07-22 13:53:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
I did feel that you were being steered into a direction for vindictive
reasons by Cliff and Ed. It's no secret that Cliff has a taste for
spoiling things for others, Ed, I just don't know what his motivation is.
To contribute the best information I have to NG discussions. And then, when
some bully tries to berate me, or someone else, to stick it right back to
him.

It's that simple. It's well-documented in my NG postings.
--
Ed Huntress
(remove "3" from email address for email reply)
Ed Huntress
2004-07-22 14:13:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
To
be honest I extended a "peace offering" to Ed late today via private
email, so far he has ignored the email. FWIW, I did the same thing in
private email with Ed over a month ago when he criticized my wife for no
reason at the time.
I have no email from you, Michael. As we discussed a month ago, you have to
delete the "3" from the email address in the header. You must have
forgotten.
Post by Michael
I don't know what Ed's problem is. Obviously this
started months ago, if Ed wanted to "get along" we already would have
the problem behind us. It seems to me that Ed simply likes argument.
After I seconded Bob Masta's suggestion that Charlie should consider
Post by Michael
Sorry Ed,
I will ignore your copy and paste expertise.
Note: I unlinked you cross postings too. Is that where you went for help?
Michael
The idea that you will "ignore" it is incredibly self-centered, because I
wasn't talking to you about it in the first place. That was a response to
Bob, with information for Charlie. And your sarcastic remark about "copy and
paste expertise," combined with the idea that I went to those cross-posted
sites for help (I didn't even know they existed) pretty much set the tone.

The pattern is, if anyone posts anything that disagrees with what you post,
you jump in with sarcasm. And you act as if it's a personal affront. Hell,
we weren't even *talking* to you.

That's why you get into these arguments, Michael. As for me, I just throw it
back to people who throw it at me. And you're a major mud-slinger here.
You're so puffed-up with your expertise that you even posted a resume. <g>
Thus, we get into arguments.
--
Ed Huntress
(remove "3" from email address for email reply)
Rick Faust
2004-07-22 15:38:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
That's why you get into these arguments, Michael. As for me, I just throw it
back to people who throw it at me. And you're a major mud-slinger here.
You're so puffed-up with your expertise that you even posted a resume. <g>
Thus, we get into arguments.
Oh Mr. ED......
http://www.rockaxis.com/freaks/mp3/Themes%20-%20Mr.%20Ed.mp3

It takes at the very least *two people* to make an argument. I find it
humorous that you never own up to your half of the bargain.

If you would shut your big fat trap for a minute, swallowed your pride,
and walk away, you would *never* find yourself in the middle of an argument.

You are you own worst enemy!

Like I said before, if you are relying on other posters in a newsgroup
to back you up in order to justify your constant arguing then you have
very low self esteem.

You are so funny. You try to act like *all that*, as you wallow through
the depths of slimeball journalism here on alt.machines.cnc.

If I were a professional writer, I would avoid posting to any newsgroup
as it could only harm your value and reputation. Obviously, you don't
care about any of that as long as a couple of your newsgroup flunkies
back you up.

You and your flunkie crew are pathetic!
--
Rick
Ed Huntress
2004-07-22 15:49:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick Faust
Post by Ed Huntress
That's why you get into these arguments, Michael. As for me, I just throw it
back to people who throw it at me. And you're a major mud-slinger here.
You're so puffed-up with your expertise that you even posted a resume. <g>
Thus, we get into arguments.
Oh Mr. ED......
http://www.rockaxis.com/freaks/mp3/Themes%20-%20Mr.%20Ed.mp3
It takes at the very least *two people* to make an argument.
Yeah, you and Michael.
Post by Rick Faust
If I were a professional writer, I would avoid posting to any newsgroup
as it could only harm your value and reputation. Obviously, you don't
care about any of that as long as a couple of your newsgroup flunkies
back you up.
My rep is that I stick to the facts and that I don't take crap from
jackasses like you, Billet Head. It's well-earned.

Unfortunately, you don't provide much of a challenge. It's like shooting
bunny rabbits in a cage, with a 12-guage shotgun.

(Sorry, Hamei, I don't shoot *real* bunnies in cages...)

Ed Huntress
Rick Faust
2004-07-22 21:17:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Rick Faust
Post by Ed Huntress
That's why you get into these arguments, Michael. As for me, I just
throw it
Post by Rick Faust
Post by Ed Huntress
back to people who throw it at me. And you're a major mud-slinger here.
You're so puffed-up with your expertise that you even posted a resume.
<g>
Post by Rick Faust
Post by Ed Huntress
Thus, we get into arguments.
Oh Mr. ED......
http://www.rockaxis.com/freaks/mp3/Themes%20-%20Mr.%20Ed.mp3
It takes at the very least *two people* to make an argument.
Yeah, you and Michael.
You mean *Mr. ED huntress* and whoever doesn't agree with you in the
newsgroup.
http://www.rockaxis.com/freaks/mp3/Themes%20-%20Mr.%20Ed.mp3
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Rick Faust
If I were a professional writer, I would avoid posting to any newsgroup
as it could only harm your value and reputation. Obviously, you don't
care about any of that as long as a couple of your newsgroup flunkies
back you up.
My rep is that I stick to the facts and that I don't take crap from
jackasses like you, Billet Head. It's well-earned.
Mr. ED huntress' rep is that he is a know-it-all in every category
imaginable.
http://www.rockaxis.com/freaks/mp3/Themes%20-%20Mr.%20Ed.mp3

Mr. ED huntress' rep is that he argues with everybody who does not agree
with him.
http://www.rockaxis.com/freaks/mp3/Themes%20-%20Mr.%20Ed.mp3

Mr. ED huntress' rep is that he resorts to name calling to settle
battles that he cannot possibly win.
http://www.rockaxis.com/freaks/mp3/Themes%20-%20Mr.%20Ed.mp3
--
Rick
Cliff
2004-07-23 06:38:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick Faust
Mr. ED huntress' rep is that he resorts to name calling to settle
battles that he cannot possibly win.
Rickie-Poo (AKA BilletHead),
IF you knew anything at all about the subject you would know .....
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-23 06:38:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick Faust
It takes at the very least *two people* to make an argument. I find it
humorous that you never own up to your half of the bargain.
If you would shut your big fat trap for a minute, swallowed your pride,
and walk away, you would *never* find yourself in the middle of an argument.
You are you own worst enemy!
Like I said before, if you are relying on other posters in a newsgroup
to back you up in order to justify your constant arguing then you have
very low self esteem.
Like BD or somebody said, you are an idiot. And probably a sick one.
--
Cliff
Michael
2004-07-22 16:37:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
To
be honest I extended a "peace offering" to Ed late today via private
email, so far he has ignored the email. FWIW, I did the same thing in
private email with Ed over a month ago when he criticized my wife for no
reason at the time.
I have no email from you, Michael. As we discussed a month ago, you have to
delete the "3" from the email address in the header. You must have
forgotten.
I failed to remember which character it was, truth.
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
I don't know what Ed's problem is. Obviously this
started months ago, if Ed wanted to "get along" we already would have
the problem behind us. It seems to me that Ed simply likes argument.
After I seconded Bob Masta's suggestion that Charlie should consider
Post by Michael
Sorry Ed,
I will ignore your copy and paste expertise.
Note: I unlinked you cross postings too. Is that where you went for help?
Michael
The idea that you will "ignore" it is incredibly self-centered, because I
wasn't talking to you about it in the first place. That was a response to
Bob, with information for Charlie. And your sarcastic remark about "copy and
paste expertise," combined with the idea that I went to those cross-posted
sites for help (I didn't even know they existed) pretty much set the tone.
Well Ed, I get the same reflex when you write <snip> to much of what I
post, how similar we are.
Post by Ed Huntress
The pattern is, if anyone posts anything that disagrees with what you post,
you jump in with sarcasm. And you act as if it's a personal affront. Hell,
we weren't even *talking* to you.
And you do the same thing, maybe we are exactly alike.
Post by Ed Huntress
That's why you get into these arguments, Michael. As for me, I just throw it
back to people who throw it at me. And you're a major mud-slinger here.
You're so puffed-up with your expertise that you even posted a resume. <g>
Thus, we get into arguments.
You asked when was I a machinist. I simply told you that is what I have
been since the mid 70's. Ed, you sling insults and mud about as well as
anybody in here. Are you my lost twin? :)
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Ed Huntress
2004-07-23 05:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
The pattern is, if anyone posts anything that disagrees with what you post,
you jump in with sarcasm. And you act as if it's a personal affront. Hell,
we weren't even *talking* to you.
And you do the same thing, maybe we are exactly alike.
After seeing your threats, I don't think we're at all alike.

Ed Huntress
Cliff
2004-07-23 14:36:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
After seeing your threats, I don't think we're at all alike.
I kept saying that he reminded me of jb ....
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-23 06:38:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
To
be honest I extended a "peace offering" to Ed late today via private
email, so far he has ignored the email. FWIW, I did the same thing in
private email with Ed over a month ago when he criticized my wife for no
reason at the time.
I have no email from you, Michael. As we discussed a month ago, you have to
delete the "3" from the email address in the header. You must have
forgotten.
I failed to remember which character it was, truth.
But were quite happy to blame Ed for not responding and too
lazy to look.

Email to YOU, OTOH, is killed unread and you brag about it.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-23 06:38:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
You're so puffed-up with your expertise that you even posted a resume. <g>
That ought to be good <G>.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-23 06:38:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
To
be honest I extended a "peace offering" to Ed late today via private
email, so far he has ignored the email. FWIW, I did the same thing in
private email with Ed over a month ago when he criticized my wife for no
reason at the time.
I have no email from you, Michael. As we discussed a month ago, you have to
delete the "3" from the email address in the header. You must have
forgotten.
He's a *very* slow learner (as we all know by now) and his
(much bragged about) filters would probably kill the bounceback
from a bad address, leaving him to cry & whine.

Probably lost a lot of possible customers that way .... I don't think
that I'd hire him to make my next "For Sale" sign ...
--
Cliff
Ed Huntress
2004-07-22 16:03:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
The offer still stands, I am always as good as my word. I would like to
pour the parts, fire them, glazed if you like at no cost. For an honest
experience I would like to photograph and document the entire process
and post the results for everyone to make their own decisions. To me,
that would be the best resolution of the whole matter. Anybody can say
anything and too often practical applications don't get to be seen in
public. I would like to show how this can be done and let Cliff and Ed
view the results. We may all be enlightened by doing this.
That would be a good idea. Some people must be interested in the original
question by now.
Post by Michael
It would suit me for both of these guys to stop poking at me, if they
could bear the thought, I would gladly reciprocate. A peace offering is
extended on my part if these two guys could bear it.
All this bickering sucks and has grown extremely old.
Indeed it is. I have no desire to poke at anybody who doesn't poke first.
--
Ed Huntress
(remove "3" from email address for email reply)
Michael
2004-07-22 17:53:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
The offer still stands, I am always as good as my word. I would like to
pour the parts, fire them, glazed if you like at no cost. For an honest
experience I would like to photograph and document the entire process
and post the results for everyone to make their own decisions. To me,
that would be the best resolution of the whole matter. Anybody can say
anything and too often practical applications don't get to be seen in
public. I would like to show how this can be done and let Cliff and Ed
view the results. We may all be enlightened by doing this.
That would be a good idea. Some people must be interested in the original
question by now.
Me too by now.
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
It would suit me for both of these guys to stop poking at me, if they
could bear the thought, I would gladly reciprocate. A peace offering is
extended on my part if these two guys could bear it.
All this bickering sucks and has grown extremely old.
Indeed it is. I have no desire to poke at anybody who doesn't poke first.
If I quit poking first will I be the winner, Jeez Ed, I was only
kidding. :) Tell you what, I'll take the lead and "poke no more at you".
Fair enough?
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Jeff Lowe
2004-07-22 18:33:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
The offer still stands, I am always as good as my word. I would like to
pour the parts, fire them, glazed if you like at no cost. For an honest
experience I would like to photograph and document the entire process
and post the results for everyone to make their own decisions. To me,
that would be the best resolution of the whole matter. Anybody can say
anything and too often practical applications don't get to be seen in
public. I would like to show how this can be done and let Cliff and Ed
view the results. We may all be enlightened by doing this.
That would be a good idea. Some people must be interested in the original
question by now.
Me too by now.
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
It would suit me for both of these guys to stop poking at me, if they
could bear the thought, I would gladly reciprocate. A peace offering is
extended on my part if these two guys could bear it.
All this bickering sucks and has grown extremely old.
Indeed it is. I have no desire to poke at anybody who doesn't poke first.
If I quit poking first will I be the winner, Jeez Ed, I was only
kidding. :) Tell you what, I'll take the lead and "poke no more at you".
Fair enough?
Michael
Good, we have a truce on poking.
Back to the question: we know that slip is clay with an admixture of grog,
frit, and perhaps fluxing agents. How different will test tiles be that have
been produced by a water extraction process such as one gets from a plaster
mold, and a slower process of evaporation where the slip is allowed to
settle and undergoes an elutriation process. I am looking forward to the
results. BTW has anyone tried milling dried unfired clay? Hard on tools and
ways, but it would eliminates a step.
Jeff

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.
Michael
2004-07-22 18:53:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
The offer still stands, I am always as good as my word. I would like to
pour the parts, fire them, glazed if you like at no cost. For an honest
experience I would like to photograph and document the entire process
and post the results for everyone to make their own decisions. To me,
that would be the best resolution of the whole matter. Anybody can say
anything and too often practical applications don't get to be seen in
public. I would like to show how this can be done and let Cliff and Ed
view the results. We may all be enlightened by doing this.
That would be a good idea. Some people must be interested in the
original
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
question by now.
Me too by now.
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
It would suit me for both of these guys to stop poking at me, if they
could bear the thought, I would gladly reciprocate. A peace offering is
extended on my part if these two guys could bear it.
All this bickering sucks and has grown extremely old.
Indeed it is. I have no desire to poke at anybody who doesn't poke
first.
Post by Michael
If I quit poking first will I be the winner, Jeez Ed, I was only
kidding. :) Tell you what, I'll take the lead and "poke no more at you".
Fair enough?
Michael
Good, we have a truce on poking.
It is in place on my end, I haven't been poked in the last hour. That is
a record.
Post by Michael
Back to the question: we know that slip is clay with an admixture of grog,
frit, and perhaps fluxing agents. How different will test tiles be that have
been produced by a water extraction process such as one gets from a plaster
mold, and a slower process of evaporation where the slip is allowed to
settle and undergoes an elutriation process. I am looking forward to the
results.
On a single thickness casting I have not seen any differences after
firing. There may be some minute differences but none that I have seen
"or heard" about. Note that these parts are not designed for machining .
I have suspected that we have had a mix of ceramic applications jumbled
together in this thread.
I had even found one ceramic application that lets you pour the slip,
remove the part for drying later. There was something mixed into the
slip for allowing this. But, that ceramic application was for also later
being machined.

BTW has anyone tried milling dried unfired clay? Hard on tools and
Post by Michael
ways, but it would eliminates a step.
If it is not fired it will crack very easily.
Michael
Post by Michael
Jeff
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Cliff
2004-07-23 06:38:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Jeff Lowe
Back to the question: we know that slip is clay with an admixture of grog,
frit, and perhaps fluxing agents. How different will test tiles be that
have
Post by Jeff Lowe
been produced by a water extraction process such as one gets from a plaster
mold, and a slower process of evaporation where the slip is allowed to
settle and undergoes an elutriation process. I am looking forward to the
results.
On a single thickness casting I have not seen any differences after
firing. There may be some minute differences but none that I have seen
"or heard" about. Note that these parts are not designed for machining .
I have suspected that we have had a mix of ceramic applications jumbled
together in this thread.
WE are not talking about your cement.
Post by Michael
I had even found one ceramic application that lets you pour the slip,
remove the part for drying later.
My, my ... that's called "slip casting", probably.
Post by Michael
There was something mixed into the
slip for allowing this.
Water?
Post by Michael
But, that ceramic application was for also later
being machined.
Easily possible.
Post by Michael
BTW has anyone tried milling dried unfired clay? Hard on tools and
Post by Jeff Lowe
ways, but it would eliminates a step.
If it is not fired it will crack very easily.
?? Don't you know anything about machining? Or clay & ceramics?
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-23 06:38:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Lowe
Back to the question: we know that slip is clay with an admixture of grog,
frit, and perhaps fluxing agents.
Not usually frit. But don't tell Michael.
Post by Jeff Lowe
How different will test tiles be that have
been produced by a water extraction process such as one gets from a plaster
mold,
Which actually can remove certain "fluxing agents" IIRC, some being
water soluable. So the slip formulations for the two processes might
differ a bit, depending.
Post by Jeff Lowe
and a slower process of evaporation where the slip is allowed to
settle and undergoes an elutriation process.
In this case, any dissolved agents would be migrated to or near
the top (evaporative) surface, thus increasing their local density. I'd not
thought of the possible differential density issues.
Post by Jeff Lowe
I am looking forward to the
results. BTW has anyone tried milling dried unfired clay?
I suggested it to Charlie some time ago.
Post by Jeff Lowe
Hard on tools and
ways, but it would eliminates a step.
One method needs a "negative" of the desired shape ...
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-23 06:38:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
That would be a good idea. Some people must be interested in the original
question by now.
Me too by now.
Why? You *claimed* to KNOW !!!
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-23 06:38:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
It would suit me for both of these guys to stop poking at me, if they
could bear the thought, I would gladly reciprocate. A peace offering is
extended on my part if these two guys could bear it.
All this bickering sucks and has grown extremely old.
Indeed it is. I have no desire to poke at anybody who doesn't poke first.
It doesn't take much to get him started.
Just post the facts or correct his buzzwords.
--
Cliff
Charlie Gary
2004-07-22 21:20:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Charlie Gary
OK,
Here's where I step up and say "Enough already". Michael, if you
seriously think I pulled a bait and switch or secret tag team on you,
Actually from the private emails we exchanged I think you can see that
the "tag team" comment didn't include you. Too often there is a piling
on that happens in here, I don't think I would have to name names on
that one. Sorry if my message sounded like you were art of a group
effort, it wasn't meant that way at all. I rarely exchange private
email with newsgroup members but there are several who I emailed and
my tone in private email is never defensive as it is in here.
Don't sweat it. I think it was part of the overall misunderstanding.
Post by Michael
then
Post by Charlie Gary
we've had a lack of communication somewhere. That's not my style.
I began by asking about slip casting with a non-pourous mold. At
this point it was all purely research into a process. I don't know
how many posts it took before the train wreck began, but that was
never anything I intended to create. Questions came up along the
way. Several people offered up different solutions to the problem.
I looked at each one with an open mind, and tried really hard to
filter out all the bullshit that was being slung.
I didn't sling any bullshit in my email to you did I? It was a very
genuine offer. The oneupmanship and continued putdowns from two
individuals in here escalated things, but that is nothing new is it?
No, you didn't sling any BS at me until I got caught in the overall splatter
of the post that got this one going. I was refering to the BS that was
flying all around. Kind of like having a large group of people arguing at
the table next to you in a restaurant.


<<Snip>>
Post by Michael
Post by Charlie Gary
I was never going to send you a mold
and expect you to cast letters for free every day. These are not a
one-time thing. I never said they were, and I truly feel bad for
having somehow misled you into thinking they were.
The misunderstanding might have been partly mine.
Post by Charlie Gary
I had every intention of contacting you
before anything happened and asking how you or your wife would feel
about doing these on a recurring basis. I even was wondering if the
thought had crossed your mind to maybe offer up a sample batch for
free to show what could be produced.
The offer still stands, I am always as good as my word. I would like
to pour the parts, fire them, glazed if you like at no cost. For an
honest experience I would like to photograph and document the entire
process and post the results for everyone to make their own
decisions. To me, that would be the best resolution of the whole
matter. Anybody can say anything and too often practical applications
don't get to be seen in public. I would like to show how this can be
done and let Cliff and Ed view the results. We may all be enlightened
by doing this.
<<Snip>>

This could really be a fun collaberation, I think. I should lay it out here
so you and anybody who's curious will understand just what's going on. A
couple of years ago I was approached by a friend who had an idea, but no
idea of how to make it real. It's a word game he and his son made up
driving down the road. We talked a while, figured out how to play it
board-game style, and I built a protoype. Since then we've played it, built
a second version, showed some game people, submitted provisional patent
paperwork, and in general have been working toward making it big. Once we
get the patent stuff done I'll be able to post details about how it's
played, but I will say very few people who play don't like it. They always
seem to say they don't like games anyway, so maybe it's just them.
Everybody else loves it. Anyway, I'm currently gathering my supplies to
build a nice one from wood. I've got a nice piece of burl vernier for the
main flat surfaces, and I'm trying to decide whether the metal accents
should be copper or brass. The woods will be light in color. This is the
reason I want to obtain some nice ceramic letters. Everyone who plays the
plain MDF version comments on how the little acrylic squares with letters
engraved and blackened with Sharpies are rather cheesy, so I'm pretty sure
I'll need something nice for the pretty one. I don't think I'll need very
many sets, because if I need more ceramic letters it means I'll be spending
my evenings in the shop glueing wood. I just want to do enough to get a few
nice versions. Then the plan is to sell the rights to a large company for
billions and become a 20-year overnight success. After that I'm sure it
will degrade to injection molded plastic, but I'll have to make sure I
manage to retain my rights to build nice wood ones.
With all that said, I would be up for doing a couple of different molds.
I've got a block of HG3000 I can use for a master pattern. From it can be
pulled any type of mold a person could want to try. I can also go straight
to cutting a plastic mold to try that. A train of thought just ran through
my mind. I began to wonder at what point the newsgroup should apply for one
off those SRBI grants. We could pull all kinds of crazy stunts with
plaster, slip, clay and who-knows-what trying to make letters, and get paid
to do it. Probably not, though, but it was a fun thought. I guess we'll
have to stick with the experiments already mentioned. :-)
That's a lot of typing for me. I'd better get back on my head, or the
shop might catch up with me.
--
Later,

Charlie

An ordinance of Willowdale, Ore., prohibits profanity during sex.
Michael
2004-07-22 21:55:51 UTC
Permalink
Charlie,
I went out and picked up some single thickness examples today. I will
post some pictures of these sample molds tonight on a webpage. These are
open face plaster molds, you can see the molds and the resulting parts.
As I said earlier somewhere, these are not designed to be a "closed" two
piece mold but a single shallow poured mold. You pour them and wait for
them to dry, actually really simple stuff. No spin casting or anything
like a shell core. :) Just gravity and evaporation.
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Michael
2004-07-23 03:48:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Charlie,
I went out and picked up some single thickness examples today. I will
post some pictures of these sample molds tonight on a webpage. These are
open face plaster molds, you can see the molds and the resulting parts.
As I said earlier somewhere, these are not designed to be a "closed" two
piece mold but a single shallow poured mold. You pour them and wait for
them to dry, actually really simple stuff. No spin casting or anything
like a shell core. :) Just gravity and evaporation.
Michael
Charlie,
Here is a link to some flat one piece ceramic molds and resulting cast
parts. Click thumbnails for larger views.
These are standard one piece ceramic molds and the parts cast in them.
FWIW, Ed, the fish mold was poured just for the example you requested. :)
These are raw pourings, no firing yet. Yes, the back side of the cast
parts shrink as they dry, however it does not affect the faces of the
objects.
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/flat-ceramics.htm
Charlie, this is exactly how you can cut your sample mold, in plastic,
they dry out fast in 100 plus degree heat.
Michael
--
Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
Charlie Gary
2004-07-23 13:40:37 UTC
Permalink
Michael wrote:
<<Snip>>
Post by Michael
Charlie,
Here is a link to some flat one piece ceramic molds and resulting
cast parts. Click thumbnails for larger views.
These are standard one piece ceramic molds and the parts cast in them.
FWIW, Ed, the fish mold was poured just for the example you
requested. :) These are raw pourings, no firing yet. Yes, the back
side of the cast parts shrink as they dry, however it does not affect
the faces of the objects.
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/flat-ceramics.htm
Charlie, this is exactly how you can cut your sample mold, in plastic,
they dry out fast in 100 plus degree heat.
Michael
The rolled edge wouldn't be a problem. My imagination is telling me the
thickness of the tiles would help minimize that. Now I just have to get my
lazy ass in gear and design a mold to cut. Maybe after the NHRA Nationals
are over. It took me years, but I finally scored a free weekend pass. This
year I won't be hearing it from my backyard, wondering if I should have
gone. :-)
--
Later,

Charlie

Write-in Vote Dave Corgill for President
Cliff
2004-07-23 14:36:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Charlie,
Here is a link to some flat one piece ceramic molds
Plaster by the looks of it. NOT Silicone rubber or Latex.
Post by Michael
and resulting cast parts.
Slip cast, by the looks of it.
Post by Michael
Click thumbnails for larger views.
Pay close attention to those slip cast parts.
Measure the amount of sink in them. I assume that you had filled
the cavities full & just let it sit.
Measure the wall thickness in various places. Is it uniform or real
thick on the "bottom" as it sat in the mold?

Does Charlie want bits with walls? Huge sinks in the middle?

What do you suppose might happen to parts with thin walls
on the edges and thick center sections when they are fired?
Post by Michael
These are standard one piece ceramic molds and the parts cast in them.
FWIW, Ed, the fish mold was poured just for the example you requested. :)
These are raw pourings, no firing yet. Yes, the back side of the cast
parts shrink as they dry, however it does not affect the faces of the
objects.
Wait ... this may get good again ... if I made certain correct
assumptions ...
Post by Michael
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/flat-ceramics.htm
Charlie, this is exactly how you can cut your sample mold, in plastic,
they dry out fast in 100 plus degree heat.
You did not use plastic molds <G>. And the parts did not "dry out
because of the heat".
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-23 06:38:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Charlie,
I went out and picked up some single thickness examples today. I will
post some pictures of these sample molds tonight on a webpage. These are
open face plaster molds,
What happened to the Latex & Silicone rubber?
Post by Michael
you can see the molds and the resulting parts.
As I said earlier somewhere, these are not designed to be a "closed" two
piece mold but a single shallow poured mold. You pour them and wait for
them to dry, actually really simple stuff. No spin casting or anything
like a shell core. :) Just gravity and evaporation.
Actually, not gravity or (much) evaporation (from the clay).
Clearly you are still clueless, even after all of these posts.

PLASTER molds? LOL ....
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-22 22:55:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Gary
What's our next step here? Am I still the bad guy?
Charlie,
Ask Michael about glazing your parts.
That's perhaps a more interesting issue than just making
the clay bits <G>.
--
Cliff
Rick Faust
2004-07-21 13:37:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
I have no idea what he said.
Ed Huntress
Speaking of moron to moron communication....
--
Rick
Ed Huntress
2004-07-21 14:25:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick Faust
Speaking of moron to moron communication....
--
Rick
Yes? And what is it you have to say for yourself, Billet Head? Are you in
recovery?
--
Ed Huntress
(remove "3" from email address for email reply)
Santa Cruz Mike
2004-07-22 03:37:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick Faust
Post by Ed Huntress
I have no idea what he said.
Ed Huntress
Speaking of moron to moron communication....
--
Rick
Rick you have to forgive Cliff.. he is having a LB.. liars breakdown..

I mean he spent so much effort making all this fuss about President
Bush lying about WMD etc in Iraq.. and now that he has been reminded
of the fact... I think he blew a fuse..

You know how it is.. you beliieve in someone.. trust them.. they lie
to you as Clinton, Beger and Albright did according to Cliff...


so be patient with him...

Mike


In 1999 the Clinton Regime made the case for war in Iraq

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Facing tough questions from America's heartland, the
Clinton administration's foreign policy team tried to make the case
Wednesday for U.S. military action against Iraq. Secretary of State
Madeleine Albright called Iraq's disputed weapons arsenal the
"greatest security threat we face."


"The lesson of the 20th century is, and we've learned through harsh
experience, the only answer to aggression and outlaw behavior is
firmness," Berger said.

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has 10
times since 1983," Berger said



Clinton went on national TV Tuesday to explain the rationale for
possible military action. With opposition mounting in Congress and
doubts in the minds of many Americans, he decided to dispatch his top
foreign policy aides to address those concerns.

To illustrate Saddam's history of using weapons of mass destruction,
Cohen showed the audience a picture of an Iraqi woman holding a dead
child in her arms. He said they had been gassed by Saddam's forces


Berger said the United States was seeking to protect the world's
long-term interests in limiting the spread of weapons of mass
destruction.

Earlier Wednesday, Clinton's press secretary said there was little
hope for optimism about reaching a diplomatic solution with Saddam
Hussein.

America's military is ready, Clinton said Tuesday, while raising the
prospect of U.S. casualties. "The American people have to be ready, as
well
Cliff
2004-07-22 11:58:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Santa Cruz Mike
all this fuss about President
Bush lying about WMD etc in Iraq.. and now that he has been reminded
of the fact...
You have it, Mikie?
LOL .... in the outhouse basement?

[
An Alabama man was looking for a place to live, but wasn't having much success.
Finally he came upon a farm house, figuring he had nothing to lose, he asked
the farmer if he had a room for rent.

The farmer said the only place he had left was the outhouse and that he was
welcome to rent it.

The man was grateful and moved in right away.

The next day the farmer saw 2 T.V. antennas on top of the outhouse and was
bewildered, so he knocked on the door to ask about the extra antenna.

The man said, "Well, I sublet the basement to a guy from California."
]
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-21 11:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Ed Huntress
And that may be a problem, Michael. You used the example of mud drying from
a mud puddle or something. Cliff pointed out that it's full of cracks. It
cracks because of the way it shrinks, and it shrinks a lot. Slip is a lot
like that mud. In fact, it *is* a very pure mud, with no coarse sand or
organic material in it.
Also, slip has to be sloshed around in a pottery-plaster mold and water has
to be drawn from it in the process, or it just runs to the bottom. In a
plaster mold, some will stick to the plaster because it starts drawing out
water right away.
Rather than go into a long story about this, here's something from an old
"You always use Clay Slip with plaster (Pottery Plaster) molds. You pour
the
Post by Ed Huntress
slip into the plaster mold. The mold acts like a sponge and absorbs water
from the slip. This causes a thin layer of clay to build up on the mold
surface. A layer of about 1/8 inch may develop in about 10 to 15 minutes.
You pour the excess slip out of the mold and save it for re-use. The clay
remaining in the mold is allowed to dry. As the clay dries, it shrinks
slightly, away from the mold surface. At this point you can remove it from
the mold. The clay at this stage - firm, but still contains some water - is
called Leather Hard. You can easily work leather hard clay with tools. You
can remove seam lines, cut holes in the clay, add decorations, and so
forth."
On a 3Dimensional closed mold that would be correct, I never said that
wasn't correct.
Charlie wants ceramic text letters, that is NOT a 3Dimensional "closed mold.
What Charlie asked for was a thin ceramic "filled" open mold. Why can't
you understand that, apparently you don't know a one piece shallow
poured mold from a 3 Dimensional mold. I wil take pictures again of both
tomorrow and post them for you. Maybe you will eventually understand
what Charlie asked for. There was NOTHING about a 3 Dimensional "closed"
mold. You have run around for over a week and have never understood what
Charlie was asking for. There will be no "hollow" 3 Dimensional shape
for the excess clay/slip to be poured from. The text will be a single
layer thick, nothing more. Do you think that won't dry out/evaporate?
<snicker>

Slip is slip. It does not require a "3D closed mold". Closed has
nothing to do with the process anymore than 3D does. And you
STILL get the shrink. It's almost linear <BG>.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-21 11:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
Post by Michael
http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/wjc/lucshaping.htm
Gelcasting consists of pouring an aqueous slurry of a ceramic powder, to
which a gelling agent has been added, into a mould.
You don't gelcast with slip. Slip is clay and water. You told Charlie to use
slip.
In addition, there are a lot of "technical ceramics" that are not
based on clays.
Just because it's called a "ceramic" only means that it was
processed with high heat to product a durable solid and that it's
non-metalic IIRC.

"Slip" probaby could be a clay and a polar solvent BUT things less
polar than water would probably need to be used in larger volumes.
Perhaps Michael should test Latex with an Ethanol-based clay ..
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-21 11:30:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Huntress
You pour the excess slip out of the mold and save it for re-use. The clay
remaining in the mold is allowed to dry. As the clay dries, it shrinks
slightly, away from the mold surface. At this point you can remove it from
the mold.
From this point it's about like the clay that a potter might throw
on a wheel, perhaps a bit "stiffer", depending on a few factors, like
how long it was left in the mold. But once it shrinks away from
the mold it is nolonger being dewatered by that area of the plaster
mold. But areas still in contact are .. and they are shrinking much
faster than the rest of the part. Not a good idea <G>.
After removal from the mold the part will air-dry from all sides,
not just the one in contact with the plaster mold (which removes the
water far faster than evaporation would). Shrinkage is much more
uniform as a result. And,as evaporation is a bit slow, water in the clay
can migrate from damper areas to dryer ones to compensate a bit
for any non-uniform evaporation.

I've just got to stop providing free clues for Michael.

HEY, MICHAEL !!! Did you know that it's suspected that life got
started on clays?

BTW, Ed .. a good potter's clay does contain a bit of organics
(they burn off in firing). They act sort of like surfactants to add
plasticity to the clay. Things like beer, sugar, etc. are often added
by the potters when formulating their clays. In Michael's case,
perhaps urine would work (it's been used too <G>).
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-20 23:55:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
This was sent to me via private email from someone who read what I had
done with rubber, silicone and plastic molds and ceramics (slip
casting). Apparently what I have done HAS in fact been done elsewhere
and even more.
Here is a link.
It seems that a Professor in Tokyo has managed to pour slip castings in
about via implementing a "nonaqueous carrier" that allows faster drying
in a non-porous mold. he is doing this in a rubber mold.
http://www.wtec.org/loyola/rp/07_02.htm
LMAO .. that's NOT slip casting.
It's transfer molding. They just *mentioned* production slip casting
as a comparison.

Slip casting is usually used for *hollow* objects of rather uniform
wall thickness with compound curved walls.
Don't you even know anything about molding?

Again, your reading comprehension issues showed brightly. Didn't
you even look at it or read it? Clearly you remain totally clueless.
--
Cliff
Santa Cruz Mike
2004-07-21 01:23:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Again, your reading comprehension issues showed brightly. Didn't
you even look at it or read it? Clearly you remain totally clueless.
--
Cliff
Snibbles... did Clinton lie about WMD?



"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of
threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction,
ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond
today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be
emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998
Cliff
2004-07-21 12:25:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Again, your reading comprehension issues showed brightly. Didn't
you even look at it or read it? Clearly you remain totally clueless.
Still confused about which is which? Iran or Iraq?

Right thread?
Wingers ....
--
Cliff
Santa Cruz Mike
2004-07-22 03:18:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Post by Cliff
Again, your reading comprehension issues showed brightly. Didn't
you even look at it or read it? Clearly you remain totally clueless.
Still confused about which is which? Iran or Iraq?
Right thread?
Wingers ....
--
Cliff
Still in denial about Clinton's lies about WMD in Irag?

Even Berger and Albright jumped on the bat with him... have you
forgotten already?

Remeber 1999

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Facing tough questions from America's heartland, the
Clinton administration's foreign policy team tried to make the case
Wednesday for U.S. military action against Iraq. Secretary of State
Madeleine Albright called Iraq's disputed weapons arsenal the
"greatest security threat we face."

When one questioner said as many as 100,000 Iraqi civilians could be
killed in an attack, Albright replied, "I'm willing to make a bet that
we care more about the Iraqi people than Saddam Hussein does."

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has 10
times since 1983," Berger said.


How long can you live in denial Cliff... looks like the Clinton
Regime was and is in full agreement with the Bush Regime..

<snicker>

Mike
Mayer Art
2004-07-22 20:30:24 UTC
Permalink
Take you'r BS elsewhere .. , you arn't even from california .nor been to
Santa Cruze . what gives ?
Post by Cliff
Post by Cliff
Again, your reading comprehension issues showed brightly. Didn't
you even look at it or read it? Clearly you remain totally clueless.
Still confused about which is which? Iran or Iraq?
Right thread?
Wingers ....
--
Cliff
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Cliff
2004-07-23 14:36:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mayer Art
Take you'r BS elsewhere .. , you arn't even from california .nor been to
Santa Cruze . what gives ?
Mike posted yet another confused winger blog. The winger that actually
wrote it (no credit was given) confused Iraq with Iran and Mike did not
even notice.

As to where I've been ... I'm not telling <G>.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-21 03:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
This was sent to me via private email from someone who read what I had
done with rubber, silicone and plastic molds and ceramics (slip
casting).
Except that you have actually done none of it.
Post by Michael
Apparently what I have done HAS in fact been done elsewhere
and even more.
You did all that? LOL ....
Was it Rick or jb that Googled it up?
--
Cliff
Cliff
2004-07-21 03:06:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
It seems that a Professor in Tokyo has managed to pour slip castings in
about via implementing a "nonaqueous carrier" that allows faster drying
in a non-porous mold. he is doing this in a rubber mold.
http://www.wtec.org/loyola/rp/07_02.htm
Professor Nakagawa of the University of Tokyo mentioned to JTEC/WTEC
panelists that ceramic parts are typically fabricated in plaster molds,
usually using slip casting. He recently developed a nonaqueous carrier
for the ceramic, which does not require a porous mold. Nakagawa
successfully cast ceramic into a rubber mold, which opens the
possibility of having reusable molds that can be created rapidly using
an RP master.
Actually, to make a wet "clay" from *dry* clay powder, I think
that a polar solvent is required.
Water is a common one, cheap & clean. Easy to recycle -- you
just let it evaporate.
Do you suppose that they are using Ethanol to make a wet clay?

But even if so, what they are doing is clearly not slip casting <G>.
--
Cliff
Cliff Huprich
2004-07-21 10:12:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
This was sent to me via private email from someone who read what I had
done with rubber, silicone and plastic molds and ceramics (slip
casting). Apparently what I have done HAS in fact been done elsewhere
and even more.
Here is a link.
It seems that a Professor in Tokyo has managed to pour slip castings in
about via implementing a "nonaqueous carrier" that allows faster drying
in a non-porous mold. he is doing this in a rubber mold.
http://www.wtec.org/loyola/rp/07_02.htm
Slip casting?
Post by Michael
Professor Nakagawa of the University of Tokyo mentioned to JTEC/WTEC
panelists that ceramic parts are typically fabricated in plaster molds,
usually using slip casting. He recently developed a nonaqueous carrier
for the ceramic, which does not require a porous mold. Nakagawa
successfully cast ceramic into a rubber mold, which opens the
possibility of having reusable molds that can be created rapidly using
an RP master.
United States
In the United States, universities, industries, and government
laboratories have been actively working with ceramic materials. Several
licensees are commercializing aspects of MIT's "Three-Dimensional
Printing" program These include Soligen, which offers the "Direct Shell
Production Casting" machine. The machine "writes" patterns for molds
directly into ceramic powder using a binder dispersed via an ink-jet
printer head. The resulting pattern is then cleaned of loose powder and
sintered to provide a shell into which metal can be cast. A host of
other processes are under development, most of which are tied to
modifications of existing commercial systems. Some of these efforts are
mentioned below.
Selective laser sintering of ceramic powders and fusing of coated
ceramics are being investigated by DTM and the University of Texas. Both
Lone Peak Engineering and the University of Dayton are investigating
production of ceramic tapes and use of these tapes in the laminated
object manufacturing (LOM) environment. In addition, the University of
Dayton is extending this process to ceramic composites using both
chopped and continuous fiber reinforcement in its tape systems. Ceramic
loading of photopolymers for use in stereolithography systems is being
developed at the University of Michigan. Argonne National Laboratories
and Rutgers University are developing ceramic-loaded filaments that
will be compatible with fused deposition molding systems, similar to the
multiphase jet solidification (MJS) system being developed in Europe.
Case Western Reserve University is developing the CAM-LEM system, which
utilizes ceramic material delivered in sheet format. Each material layer
is cut by a 5-axis laser cutter that shapes the edge to match the slope
of the part at every location. The layers are then robotically stacked
and sintered to form the part. Other efforts include the program at
Stanford Research Institute to develop a filled photopolymer.
The U.S. effort encompasses the development of ceramic molds for casting
and the fabrication of both monolithic and composite ceramic parts. The
particular ceramics under study include lower-temperature oxides and the
higher-temperature materials such as SiC and AlN. RP fabrication of
ceramic components could potentially open a variety of application areas
that heretofore have been cost-prohibitive.
It is NOT impossible.
Michael
Still trying to make tooling & stuff to slip cast 180 3/4" squares
roughly 1/8-3/16 thick using Silicone Rubber or Latex molds like your
wife
(per you) does in her hobby?
--
Cliff
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...